Follow us on...
Follow us on Twitter Follow us on Facebook Watch us on YouTube
Register
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 23
  1. #1
    Eruption
    Join Date
    01.26.12
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    708
    Last Online

    11.28.17 @ 10:33 PM
    Likes
    6
    Liked 266 Times in 142 Posts


    Premium Member

    Default Show me how to do the flat picking with the cocked wrist and no string muting.

    How the eff does he do this without muting the strings and make it sound so clean? I've seen plenty of Youtube videos of guys who can do it, but none explain how. I can pick as fast as I need to, but I have to mute the strings and my right hand looks like a claw when I do it. I know it won't sound any different if I try to make it look like Ed does, but just curious what the trick is here.

    See 4:29.


  2. #2
    On Fire Bluto's Avatar
    Join Date
    07.01.13
    Posts
    380
    Favorite VH Album

    Fair Warning, 1984
    Favorite VH Song

    Girl Gone Bad
    Last Online

    06.23.15 @ 06:07 PM
    Likes
    67
    Liked 13 Times in 9 Posts

    Default

    I've been working on this technique for awhile and kind of have it down. Sorry that I'm not near any of my guitars right now to demonstrate, but I'll try to explain as best I can.

    It's a little easier (at least for me) to do it with my thumb and middle finger like Ed rather than thumb and index finger. Maybe because I naturally use my middle finger and thumb to pick in the first place.

    You kind of have to hold your arm away from your body a little farther than usual. Then you have to cock your wrist at a bit of an odd angle so that your palm faces the guitar body. After that, I basically just twitch my wrist back and forth as fast as possible.

    The string muting is a little challenging at first, the wrist goes everywhere and it sounds pretty bad, but after some practice it comes pretty naturally. I still have to work on it a little bit, but I find it a much easier and more efficient way of speed picking.

    Sorry if that didn't really make sense, I'll try and post a video tomorrow that makes a little more sense when I'm not exhausted.

  3. #3
    Eruption garbeaj's Avatar
    Join Date
    06.02.11
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    1,498
    Favorite VH Album

    Van Halen
    Last Online

    12.10.17 @ 10:38 AM
    Likes
    343
    Liked 612 Times in 387 Posts

    Default

    I tremolo pick my own way, but I do hold the pick the same way Ed did. I tell my students that they can tremolo pick in whatever way feels most comfortable and works best for them...there are several different ways to do it and as long as the end result sounds the same it doesn't really matter.

    If you are trying to learn how to do it the way Ed does it just for the sake of learning how he did it, there is no better example than the one that you posted. You couldn't ask for a better explanation or demonstration of how to do it than the example from Live Without A Net. The camera's view in that segment is so clear and up close that you can just look at it and see exactly what he's doing as far as the mechanics (forearm resting on the forearm contour with the movement coming from the wrist and the thumb and middle finger used to hold the "Thin" Fender style pick with the index finger lightly resting on the top edge of the pick)...if it is difficult at first, just get a metronome and practice it as slow as you need to and gradually build up speed using the metronome as your guide and you'll be doing it exactly as Ed used to do it. Also the way that Bluto describes the "odd angle" and "twitching" is correct and you can see it for yourself in the video. The metronome will get your accuracy right and you won't have a problem with muting strings.

    I say "used to" because he hasn't really done it quite like that in a very long time...
    Last edited by garbeaj; 08.11.14 at 12:17 PM.

  4. #4
    Baluchitherium Mikey Metalhead's Avatar
    Join Date
    01.25.00
    Age
    53
    Location
    Tx
    Posts
    4,033
    Last Online

    06.12.15 @ 12:43 PM
    Likes
    3
    Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts


    Donor

    Default Show me how to do the flat picking with the cocked wrist and no string muting.

    Seems like its all in the wrist for Ed
    Which I could never do
    I could trem pick as fast with my fingers so I never really spent much time trying to copy ed
    I SURVIVED TEXAS LINKERS WEEKEND I, II, III, IV and VI and VII.barely made it to VIII time to slow down
    I musta had a broken middle finger for V
    http://www.youtube.com/user/daneph

  5. #5
    Eruption AFU's Avatar
    Join Date
    06.20.00
    Location
    Rumford, R.I. USA
    Posts
    868
    Last Online

    12.10.17 @ 09:00 AM
    Likes
    208
    Liked 378 Times in 224 Posts

    Default

    I do it the Eddie way. Hold pick with my thumb and middle finger. Learned it by watching Live Without A Net.

  6. #6
    Eruption
    Join Date
    01.26.12
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    708
    Last Online

    11.28.17 @ 10:33 PM
    Likes
    6
    Liked 266 Times in 142 Posts


    Premium Member

    Default

    I learned fast trem picking before that video came out and was too set in my ways by then to relearn it. Besides, I thought it was kind silly to relearn it just to look like Ed does, when it sounds the same the way I do it. But now I'm playing in a VH tribute and am wondering if it would look cool to do it that way.

    I was playing the intro to Little Guitars the other day and, trying to do it like Ed, it didn't sound too bad. But I know it's gonna make a lot of noise, not muting those strings with a 100w head cranked up to band volume.

  7. #7
    Eruption garbeaj's Avatar
    Join Date
    06.02.11
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    1,498
    Favorite VH Album

    Van Halen
    Last Online

    12.10.17 @ 10:38 AM
    Likes
    343
    Liked 612 Times in 387 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Lee View Post
    I learned fast trem picking before that video came out and was too set in my ways by then to relearn it. Besides, I thought it was kind silly to relearn it just to look like Ed does, when it sounds the same the way I do it. But now I'm playing in a VH tribute and am wondering if it would look cool to do it that way.

    I was playing the intro to Little Guitars the other day and, trying to do it like Ed, it didn't sound too bad. But I know it's gonna make a lot of noise, not muting those strings with a 100w head cranked up to band volume.
    Your left hand will mute the open strings when you do the silent hammer ons onto the low E string so you shouldn't have too much trouble, especially if you roll the volume down on your guitar enough as Ed does in the '82 footage. He also uses heavy palm muting during the regular arpeggiated chord sequences to quite the distortion.

    I agree, Eddie's method does look cool...but if your regular tremolo picking method is working well there really isn't a reason to change it if Ed's tremolo picking style doesn't come naturally. You just have to decide whether looking cool is worth the effort!
    Last edited by garbeaj; 08.11.14 at 04:10 PM.

  8. #8
    On Fire Bluto's Avatar
    Join Date
    07.01.13
    Posts
    380
    Favorite VH Album

    Fair Warning, 1984
    Favorite VH Song

    Girl Gone Bad
    Last Online

    06.23.15 @ 06:07 PM
    Likes
    67
    Liked 13 Times in 9 Posts

    Default

    There really is no point in learning it if you do it a different way perfectly well already. But for me, I naturally started picking with my middle finger and thumb, and eventually started speed picking by using my wrist like Ed. It was before I got into VH, and I just developed my playing that way. It comes naturally for me but there's no sense in starting now if you don't already.

  9. #9
    Baluchitherium
    Join Date
    10.28.12
    Location
    Mean Street
    Posts
    4,202
    Favorite VH Album

    Fair Warning
    Favorite VH Song

    Bottoms Up!
    Last Online

    08.21.17 @ 09:32 PM
    Likes
    1,841
    Liked 2,028 Times in 1,265 Posts

    Default

    I don't have any trem picking style yet. I think I could eventually do it, on it's own, ,but it's tough to come out of a lick or a chord, quickly, and then go completely loose like that. That's gonna take some serious practice.

  10. #10
    Good Enough Kevin Dodds's Avatar
    Join Date
    10.25.11
    Age
    45
    Location
    Austin
    Posts
    1,806
    Favorite VH Album

    Fair Warning
    Favorite VH Song

    "Unchained"
    Last Online

    09.15.17 @ 08:03 AM
    Likes
    1,331
    Liked 1,395 Times in 441 Posts

    Default

    Sadly, either you can do it or you can't. I can actually do it -- but not for very long! My arm actually gives out. To me it's a reflex thing, I don't know, like bouncing your feet while you're sitting. I always do that, and actually sometimes my legs will just stop, sort of give out as well. Ed not only discovered this technique but seems to have absolute mastery over it at all times. It's possibly his only move that no one has ever truly duplicated.

    This is about the best I've ever done it and my wrist did almost give out, but I got through it. It's really hard for me. Sometimes, I can't do it to save my life. Sometimes I'm in the zone and it's easy. There's no real way to make sense of that.



    KBD3

  11. #11
    Eruption
    Join Date
    01.26.12
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    708
    Last Online

    11.28.17 @ 10:33 PM
    Likes
    6
    Liked 266 Times in 142 Posts


    Premium Member

    Default

    Yeah, that looks right. I can get pretty close to it on Little Guitars too because, even when I play it on an electric guitar, there's no gain and little need to mute the other strings. Try it on a dimed 100w high-gain head, however, and I can't see how it's gonna work without muting strings. Though Ed seems to have no problem doing that.

  12. #12
    Atomic Punk RRvh1's Avatar
    Join Date
    02.13.11
    Location
    Ontari-ari-ari-o!
    Posts
    16,398
    Favorite VH Album

    VH, 1984, 5150, F.U.C.K.
    Favorite VH Song

    A few of Daves, a few of Sams!
    Last Online

    12.11.17 @ 12:21 AM
    Likes
    6,127
    Liked 6,969 Times in 5,005 Posts


    Premium Member

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Dodds View Post
    Sadly, either you can do it or you can't. I can actually do it -- but not for very long! My arm actually gives out. To me it's a reflex thing, I don't know, like bouncing your feet while you're sitting. I always do that, and actually sometimes my legs will just stop, sort of give out as well. Ed not only discovered this technique but seems to have absolute mastery over it at all times. It's possibly his only move that no one has ever truly duplicated.

    This is about the best I've ever done it and my wrist did almost give out, but I got through it. It's really hard for me. Sometimes, I can't do it to save my life. Sometimes I'm in the zone and it's easy. There's no real way to make sense of that.



    KBD3
    That's a really great demo of Ed's hummingbird trem picking .
    Nicely played us usual Kev !
    "There's too many people on this basketball that's floating around the sun, who are too afraid to allow themselves to FEEL" - Edward Van Halen
    "Van Halen was never about the singer..." - a very wise fan.
    "Embrace the past. Live in the moment but keep your eyes on the future, and keep on moving forward..." - Richie Sambora

  13. #13
    Atomic Punk RRvh1's Avatar
    Join Date
    02.13.11
    Location
    Ontari-ari-ari-o!
    Posts
    16,398
    Favorite VH Album

    VH, 1984, 5150, F.U.C.K.
    Favorite VH Song

    A few of Daves, a few of Sams!
    Last Online

    12.11.17 @ 12:21 AM
    Likes
    6,127
    Liked 6,969 Times in 5,005 Posts


    Premium Member

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Lee View Post
    Yeah, that looks right. I can get pretty close to it on Little Guitars too because, even when I play it on an electric guitar, there's no gain and little need to mute the other strings. Try it on a dimed 100w high-gain head, however, and I can't see how it's gonna work without muting strings. Though Ed seems to have no problem doing that.
    Totally get where you're coming from here , Rick . I've always wondered how Ed did that (and a million other things) so cleanly , on a high gain amp . I've even read an interview where he mentions muting all the other strings he's not using - or the high gain would make it feedback and scream . Not in the good way ! Haha

    Not to mention that it would be , I assume , very easy to hit another string by accident . Another thing about Ed's playing that always floored me .
    "There's too many people on this basketball that's floating around the sun, who are too afraid to allow themselves to FEEL" - Edward Van Halen
    "Van Halen was never about the singer..." - a very wise fan.
    "Embrace the past. Live in the moment but keep your eyes on the future, and keep on moving forward..." - Richie Sambora

  14. #14
    Eruption donkost's Avatar
    Join Date
    03.28.08
    Age
    54
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    1,350
    Last Online

    12.10.17 @ 08:16 PM
    Likes
    174
    Liked 93 Times in 37 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by vhMcG View Post
    Totally get where you're coming from here , Rick . I've always wondered how Ed did that (and a million other things) so cleanly , on a high gain amp . I've even read an interview where he mentions muting all the other strings he's not using - or the high gain would make it feedback and scream . Not in the good way ! Haha

    Not to mention that it would be , I assume , very easy to hit another string by accident . Another thing about Ed's playing that always floored me .
    Others here will know the video I'm talking about, but there is a video from NAMM, possibly around the time of Balance, where Ed plays Amsterdam among other things. It's also the one where he hands his Wolfgang over to a member of the audience and the guy plays a few decent EVH-inspired licks. Pretty sure it was when the Wolfgang was really new and that he wasn't using a EBMM, in fact it would have been the Peavey booth at NAMM. Anyway, right before he hands over the guy he illustrates how much gain he is using by letting go of the strings and the thing shrieks with feedback right away as the strings vibrate. So yes, Ed is a master at perfectly muting the unused strings while playing with a ton of gain. He's so good at it you don't even realize the effort that goes into it, until you try it yourself. ha

  15. #15
    Sinner's Swing!
    Join Date
    11.26.10
    Age
    46
    Posts
    3,353
    Last Online

    11.25.17 @ 09:06 AM
    Likes
    1,679
    Liked 1,374 Times in 803 Posts

    Default

    I've been meaning to respond to this.
    This is the first and only real EVH thing I worked on very early. (Well aside from tapping...Who didn't?)
    It's actually very easy in practice, but where most people trip up is in over thinking it.
    As others said, it's primarily in the wrist. I'll try to explain some tips.
    You keep your wrist loose, and that's most critical, and also the grip of your pick. An exercise I did when learning was to place your pick over the string to be fanned, and again, keeping your wrist and forearm muscles loose, alternate your wrist like it's on ball bearings so as you fan, if you look down at your wrist, focus on a point between your forearm and hand, and your movements should make a fixed visual point travel in a straight line back and forth.
    Secondly, as you fan, the smoothness in feel of the picking determines how much grip and angle you need to apply to the pick. The pick should clip or "skate" the string, so this will help a lot; If it feels like the pick is snagging, or catching, then hold the pick more toward the rear (larger end) which allows the pick to flex in your grip, and angle the pick a little more flat, or parallel to the string. It's personal preference, but when learning, and building your stamina, I find the parallel method works best. If the pick is angled too much, then it will feel a bit stiff, and more surface area (the rounded point) needs to pass through the string.

    One point to mention, that at the time of LWAN, by some accounts, Eddie was using a very thin pick. Guitar Player Magazine did an article with a collection of many players picks from their most current tours, and they stated: "Eddie currently uses one of the thinnest picks we've seen."

    A thinner pick can be a great asset when learning this technique. I also think his fanning had the best sound around this period, so give it a try.

    The most important point is to get this right...do it in short bursts at first, and build up your stamina and muscle memory. The one thing that'll fuck up your progress more than anything is cramping/muscle fatigue.
    That's what will stiffen up your wrist and forearm and make your playing rough and choppy.
    Stay loose...If your arm feels tired, take a break, and come back to it.
    it's a fun technique when you get it down ,and it's actually a very versatile thing. You can use it in a lot more than just EVH type stuff.
    Have fun!
    Last edited by we die young; 08.18.14 at 11:34 AM.

 

 

Similar Threads

  1. Pastor Sean Harris: Crack your 4 year old sons limp wrist and punch him.
    By rocknblues81 in forum VH Fans Meeting Place (Non-Music)
    Replies: 47
    Last Post: 06.11.12, 12:48 PM
  2. Flat top vs. Arch top
    By Sean in forum Guitar Room
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 04.07.06, 11:44 AM
  3. what do you prefer, 6 string, 7 string or 12 string
    By bernardmax in forum Guitar Room
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 02.08.05, 02:37 PM
  4. Problem with palm muting on my tele
    By Shiro in forum Guitar Room
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 12.21.02, 10:58 AM
  5. How Did Eddie Fracture His Wrist???
    By Glenn in forum Van Halen 101
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 11.20.00, 02:22 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •