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  1. #1
    Baluchitherium noise next door's Avatar
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    Default VH's "Termination Rights" (VH1/VH2) ????

    Does anyone know if VH have invoked their "termination rights" with W-Bros on VH1 and VH2? I haven't heard anything yet.

    Both are over 35 years old at this point. (Fuck I feel old!)

    1978 copyright legislation changes allowed artists to RECOVER CONTROL of their songs after 35 years.

    It's possible that the new VH "Project", (as Dave refers to it) may indeed be related to VH regaining control of 1 and 2. Who Knows???

    If indeed they have regained control, they must all be raising their middle fingers at WB after being fucked around by them.

    (BTW, WACF is the next eligible in Mar 2015)

  2. #2
    Baluchitherium noise next door's Avatar
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    On a side note....

    I'm not 100% sure if VH1 is actually eligible, since it might have been released slightly before this law was first enacted in 78.

    But, VH2 is definitely eligible.

  3. #3
    Baluchitherium noise next door's Avatar
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    How To Recapture Your Song Copyright After 35 Years (Even If You Signed Away Your Publishing Rights)
    By Ajay Gosain & Josh Kaplan
    (Lawyers 4 Musicians)


    When does forever really not mean f-o-r-e-v-e-r? In the context of signing away your rights to your music to a publisher or a label, forever may mean 35 years or so.

    Suppose you are a publisher or a record label and I am a 25-year-old writer or artist. You are impressed with my music and we begin talking. After a couple of weeks of proper courting we decide to consummate the relationship. You present me with a contract. The language states you give me money as an advance; in exchange, I give you my music and the copyrights linked to the music for the life of the copyrights. Thinking this is the standard deal and not really thinking that the life of a copyright is 70 years after my own death, I sign away. So, assume I sign the contract in ink (or blood or something). Is that it? Will my work remain with your company for the next 100 years or so? No, not necessarily.

    Despite what many think and despite the actual language of the contract, you may be able to get your copyrights back. There are strict time lines and certain formalities that must be followed; which, if done timely and correctly, will result in you getting your copyrights back. These guidelines are set forth in a little discussed portion of the 1976 Copyright Act (Section 203 to be precise). Note: This does not apply for works made for hire.

    Section 203 provides a chance for songwriters to terminate their assignments and recapture their copyrights. For works after January 1, 1978 (the year the 1976 Act went into effect) grants, assignments and licenses can be terminated during a five year window starting 35 years after such grant was made. For the termination to be effective a letter requesting that the copyrights revert to the songwriter must be sent no more than 10 years prior and no less than two years prior to the effective termination date. There are certain other formalities, such as recording a termination notice with the Copyright Office, for which you should contact an attorney experienced in recapture rights.

    Here's how Section 203 works: suppose a song was written and assigned on January 2, 1978; the writer could get his/her copyright back between the years 2013 ' 2018 (1978 + 35 years + 5 year window). Termination letters could be sent beginning in 1993 and no later than 2016 (10 years prior to 2013 and less than two years before 2018). If done correctly and timely, publishers cannot deny these termination letters. As an added bonus you cannot waive your rights in advance, meaning the contract you had me sign granting you my copyrights seemingly forever would not affect my right to recapture my copyrights. In fact, right now, there are writers and artists in this exact position requesting that their copyrights revert back to them. However, if you do not send a proper termination letter during the proper time frame, the contract will then go back into effect and the publisher or record label would continue to own your copyrights for life of the copyright.

    So what's the big deal about getting your copyrights back? What do you do if you get your copyrights back? Suppose you don't have any business experience and have no idea what to do to market and get your material out to the public? Fear not readers. You can use this as a negotiating tool. For example: suppose your contract allowed for a future advance of x dollars and a money split of x%. Well, you could renegotiate all your terms. You could ask for three times x and a money split of x+10%. I will let you fill in the x's, percentages and numbers until you are happy because that is how you could (and should) handle negotiations of this type. Another option would be to take your copyrights and move to another company on more favorable terms. Yet another option would be to recapture your copyrights and start a company to start selling or licensing your copyrights. There are countless options available if you decide to recapture your copyrights.

    It is important to remember the value of a label or a publisher is the value of the copyrights it owns and controls. Think of how many albums the Beatles, Stevie Wonder, The Who, Led Zeppelin, Ray Charles, etc. still sell. Think of how many times you hear those same artists on the radio or in movies or on television or in video games. (Labels currently do not receive money for terrestrial radio play). Now, you may not be as well known as the artists just mentioned but think of how much you could do if you had control over your rights. A label usually only pushes an album for about 12-18 months; after that the album slowly fades into obscurity. However, they still own the copyrights. If the label does not push it; no one can. Now, if you had your rights back you, or a new partner, could go out and try to get your music placed on television shows, movies, video games and commercials and reap 100% of the money. There are several companies out there that pitch and place music in all these areas (for a fee or commission). Another source of income could be repackaging and selling your album yourself. Whether it is on iTunes or at the local indie shop; you could sell your own cds and keep your own money. No one will ever care about your music more than you. If you are back in control of your songs and master recordings, your music may get a new push and find opportunities you never thought possible.

    This is an exciting time in the music industry. Every year new writers and artists start entering the termination period for copyrights. New business models, new marketing techniques and new interest in older songs are going to emerge. Songwriters should not wait around to see what happens. Without controlling your music, you cannot control your professional destiny. Taking the steps to recapture your copyrights can renew, revive or simply sustain a musical career.

    This is an extremely interesting and complicated issue. We at L4M will have many more articles about this issue and how it relates to you. Future posts will discuss pre-1978 works, sound recordings, works made for hire, heirs' rights and the importance of record keeping. Stay tuned'

    Ajay Gosain and Josh Kaplan are attorneys at Troglia Kaplan Holzman LLC (www.tkhlaw.com) where they work with musicians and other creative individuals and businesses. Currently they are working with songwriters to help them recapture their copyrights. You can find more information about the authors and this topic on www.lawyer4musicians.com.

  4. #4
    Good Enough right-here-i-say's Avatar
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    I've been drinking. Can someone just summarize this in a few sentences?
    Right here I say....

  5. #5
    Baluchitherium noise next door's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by right-here-i-say View Post
    I've been drinking. Can someone just summarize this in a few sentences?
    LOL... You need to drink MORE, not less, to understand this legal BS

    It basically means VH takes back ownership (and control) of VH1 and VH2 from Warner Bros Records and can monetize it however THEY want.

  6. #6
    Atomic Punk CaboChris's Avatar
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    Don't they have to buy them from Warner's?

  7. #7
    Baluchitherium noise next door's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaboChris View Post
    Don't they have to buy them from Warner's?
    NO...

    they just need to hire legal reps to do the paperwork with the US Copyright Office

  8. #8
    Atomic Punk Raldo's Avatar
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    12.11.17 @ 10:23 AM
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    I had never heard of this "35 year" rule. The stuff I learn on this site.
    Remember the Heroes - 9/11/01

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  9. #9
    Atomic Punk MF5150's Avatar
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    Who cares?
    My man, when you are fantasizing, don't go for attainable, you can get attainable at the local Applebee's. - Dave's Dreidel

  10. #10
    Baluchitherium noise next door's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MF5150 View Post
    Who cares?
    VH and their manager

    They can repackage those albums with bonus material and take nice big paychecks to their bank

  11. #11
    Baluchitherium
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    11.25.17 @ 04:30 AM
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    Ahhh...Section 203. I learned about this from a former bandmate of mine. He wasn't even a songwriter (I was) and he schooled me on this. A band memory from the past...

    I was in a band that was trying to make it. We had momentum and getting a deal was pretty much inevitable. One day we were offered a contract. He had a small label but a distro deal. It was our very first offer! This guy also told us he was friends with some big promoters and could get us on a good, mid-level tour with some established acts. We had ten days to respond.

    One of our buddy's father was a big lawyer and he got his dad to look at the contract for us. The contract's terms were as follows:
    - Signed to this guy's label, which had a distro deal with Sony Columbia
    - 100 hours at some studio in the L.A. area (Chatsworth comes to mind), not to include final mixing
    - He retained ownership of our songs
    This guy was a small label. What if we got signed, did an album with him, went to a major, had a great run of albums, and decided to put out a greatest hits album which included some of the songs from that very first album? He could have raked us over the coals for use of those songs because he owned them. Plus, those weren't his songs: they were our songs. We considered and talked all of this over for a week before deciding unanimously to turn it down: we felt that other offers were inevitable.

    The next day, the other two guys in the band - the non-songwriting pair that actually brought up turning down the offer - came back to me and my buddy and accused us of screwing them out of this deal. Talk about amnesia! We brought up the fact that this guy was gonna OWN our songs...the songs that my buddy and I wrote, and one of the dudes said, "According to copyright law, you'll get those back in, like, 30 years! What's the big deal?" They promptly left the band and we never found replacement members.

    35 years is a long time to have to wait to get back what was once yours.

    "The shit I read on this site." -- Dave's Dreidel (Nov 6th, 2013)

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  12. #12
    Atomic Punk MF5150's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noise next door View Post
    VH and their manager

    They can repackage those albums with bonus material and take nice big paychecks to their bank
    And Ill ask again...who cares?

    They can repackage the albums?....

    Yes cause that's why they haven't re-released any of the old albums WITH bonus material...it's because WB didn't want them too.
    My man, when you are fantasizing, don't go for attainable, you can get attainable at the local Applebee's. - Dave's Dreidel

  13. #13
    Baluchitherium noise next door's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MF5150 View Post
    And Ill ask again...who cares?

    They can repackage the albums?....

    Yes cause that's why they haven't re-released any of the old albums WITH bonus material...it's because WB didn't want them too.
    your not understanding this... read that long post above by the music lawyer...

    Between Feb 10, 1978 and Feb 10, 2013, WB owned VH's music and made the lion's share of the money off those records.

    As of Feb 2013, VH now OWNS the records themselves, controls their useage, and can make massively more money off their re-release. They knew this was coming.

    Band's all over are involved in this new development. Do some Googling.

    It's good news for VH and potentially for us fans.

  14. #14
    Atomic Punk MF5150's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noise next door View Post
    your not understanding this... read that long post above by the music lawyer...

    Between Feb 10, 1978 and Feb 10, 2013, WB owned VH's music and made the lion's share of the money off those records.

    As of Feb 2013, VH now OWNS the records themselves, controls their useage, and can make massively more money off their re-release. They knew this was coming.

    Band's all over are involved in this new development. Do some Googling.

    It's good news for VH and potentially for us fans.
    Doesn't seem to stop other bands from releasing bonus/unreleased material...But I guess any excuse is a valid one when it comes to VH....
    My man, when you are fantasizing, don't go for attainable, you can get attainable at the local Applebee's. - Dave's Dreidel

  15. #15
    Baluchitherium noise next door's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MF5150 View Post
    Doesn't seem to stop other bands from releasing bonus/unreleased material...But I guess any excuse is a valid one when it comes to VH....
    That's not the point... this is a different, juicier situation for VH.

    As of Feb 2013 and March 2014, VH has personal MASSIVE IMPETUS to make BIG BUCKS by releasing new versions of those 2 early records.

    Knowing Azoff and VH, I'm sure this is being considered as a smart VH product offering in the near future... also possibly instead of a new standalone record.

    This development is a BRAND NEW, never existed situation in the American music industry... it's only been in existence for 17 months now.

 

 

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