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  1. #1021
    Atomic Punk RRvh1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Get The Show On The Road View Post
    I must be a great rock player because this is what I do all the time. I have a handful of licks that I play over and over again. Problem is they are EVH inspired licks so they don't really sound right when you put them in a Led Zeppelin song. LOL.
    And part of the reason some people say Ed sounds out of place when jamming with Lukather, Stevens, Morse, Crowe, etc.
    His bag of tricks often feels out of sorts when not played in the context of VH music. I like hearing his signature licks, and find his unique voice to be inspiring, yet others don't think he gels well with other musicians.

    Remember recently when I said I'd rather be a Sambora than an Eddie? This ^^^ is a big part of why. And no, that's not a diss towards Edward, although I'm awaiting the usual suspects to chime in...
    "There's too many people on this basketball that's floating around the sun, who are too afraid to allow themselves to FEEL" - Edward Van Halen
    "Van Halen was never about the singer..." - a very wise fan.
    "Embrace the past. Live in the moment but keep your eyes on the future, and keep on moving forward..." - Richie Sambora

  2. #1022
    Atomic Punk RRvh1's Avatar
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    Search for some of Al Estrada's videos... He's a monster player!
    I still say his "Hey Eddie! Listen To This" clip is fantastic. There's also some other live Eruption solo clips that blow me away. He's got the vibe and feel down, coupled with a convincing tone. One of the very few guys who, if I closed my eyes, I could totally believe an early EVH was doing the playing. I can't praise him enough...

    Wish someone would post more of his clips.
    Also, he's not a one trick pony - he covers others artists, and also records his own solo material. Very schooled in other styles as well.

    For shits and giggles, check out another side project of his. Look up Metal Mania, on YT. It's a rock trio band highlight reel video. They do Whitesnake, Ratt, Bon Jovi, Europe, etc. Al's solo on "The Final Countdown" is pretty cool! Played on a Flying V...
    "There's too many people on this basketball that's floating around the sun, who are too afraid to allow themselves to FEEL" - Edward Van Halen
    "Van Halen was never about the singer..." - a very wise fan.
    "Embrace the past. Live in the moment but keep your eyes on the future, and keep on moving forward..." - Richie Sambora

  3. #1023
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    Quote Originally Posted by RogueNT View Post
    Hey, look! A nickel!


    Holy shit! A "1986" nickel rolling this deep into the links?!?

    If it were only double nickels it would be a lock, so for now I guess it's just...ARCBI!!!

  4. #1024
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    Quote Originally Posted by RRvh1 View Post
    Remember recently when I said I'd rather be a Sambora than an Eddie? This ^^^ is a big part of why. And no, that's not a diss towards Edward, although I'm awaiting the usual suspects to chime in...

    I'm pretty sure we've discussed this before elsewhere on the site, RR, but if you haven't yet, check out some of the "VH1 City of Hope All-Star Garage Band" clips on YouTube.

    Your boy Ritchie just walked all over King Edward that day, simply because Ed stayed in his comfort zone and played his "Eddie-isms" and came across very one dimensional. Heck, I'm pretty sure I remember Bryan Adams cutting Ed up once or twice that day, too.

    However, the whole show was pretty friggin' cool!

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  6. #1025
    Eruption garbeaj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hubs View Post
    I'm pretty sure we've discussed this before elsewhere on the site, RR, but if you haven't yet, check out some of the "VH1 City of Hope All-Star Garage Band" clips on YouTube.

    Your boy Ritchie just walked all over King Edward that day, simply because Ed stayed in his comfort zone and played his "Eddie-isms" and came across very one dimensional. Heck, I'm pretty sure I remember Bryan Adams cutting Ed up once or twice that day, too.

    However, the whole show was pretty friggin' cool!
    This is an example that shows why Eddie isn't an improviser in the jazz context or any context really. Even the best technical players have trouble fitting into a jam situation. I saw Steve Vai try to jam some blues on an all star jam thing with B.B. King at the center and he couldn't play blues to save his life. I mean he was really in the weeds.

  7. #1026
    Eruption garbeaj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RRvh1 View Post
    And part of the reason some people say Ed sounds out of place when jamming with Lukather, Stevens, Morse, Crowe, etc.
    His bag of tricks often feels out of sorts when not played in the context of VH music. I like hearing his signature licks, and find his unique voice to be inspiring, yet others don't think he gels well with other musicians.

    Remember recently when I said I'd rather be a Sambora than an Eddie? This ^^^ is a big part of why. And no, that's not a diss towards Edward, although I'm awaiting the usual suspects to chime in...
    Agree completely!

  8. #1027
    Eruption garbeaj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Get The Show On The Road View Post
    It is often overlooked but Ed has said numerous times that his dad was his number one influence. Clapton may have been his guitar and rock influence, but Jan was his musical influence and that's probably why Ed sounds nothing like Clapton from a guitar playing standpoint.
    But Eddie very often DOES sound like Clapton. He just plays the note-for-note Clapton licks so fast and fluidly that virtually everyone can't hear it. But when you study Eddie's playing closely, you can see that he does play and sound almost exactly like Clapton in many of his greatest solos...which I pointed out in my lesson clip about the "Sitting On Top Of The World" licks. Eddie copied the licks and so much of the tone and feel from Clapton in live Cream primarily and also from the Bluesbreakers era.

    But, as Eddie pointed out himself...most people don't think of Cream and John Mayall & The Bluesbreakers when they think of Clapton. They think of "Layla" or "Lay Down Sally" or "It's In The Way That You Use It"...

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  10. #1028
    Whoa, this is heavy! Jedi McFly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hubs View Post
    I'm pretty sure we've discussed this before elsewhere on the site, RR, but if you haven't yet, check out some of the "VH1 City of Hope All-Star Garage Band" clips on YouTube.

    Your boy Ritchie just walked all over King Edward that day, simply because Ed stayed in his comfort zone and played his "Eddie-isms" and came across very one dimensional. Heck, I'm pretty sure I remember Bryan Adams cutting Ed up once or twice that day, too.

    However, the whole show was pretty friggin' cool!
    Yup, Ed was pretty disappointing in that context. Which it was surprising, as most of what they played were tunes that I thought he would've been super familiar with from his youth. Could've serviced the songs better rather than leaning on his usual VH bag-o-tricks, which when used out of context wasn't the best, especially not with Ritchie and Bryan playing much more appropriately for that gig. I wonder if he got self-conscious and nervous about playing with those other guys.

  11. #1029
    Eruption garbeaj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jedi McFly View Post
    Yup, Ed was pretty disappointing in that context. Which it was surprising, as most of what they played were tunes that I thought he would've been super familiar with from his youth. Could've serviced the songs better rather than leaning on his usual VH bag-o-tricks, which when used out of context wasn't the best, especially not with Ritchie and Bryan playing much more appropriately for that gig. I wonder if he got self-conscious and nervous about playing with those other guys.
    I don't think so...just listen to any other times that he jammed in an improvisational context...i.e. NOT pre-arranged songs like "Stompin' 8H" from SNL or the songs that he already has an idea of what to play like "Sunshine Of Your Love", "Crossroads", "Jump", "Panama", "Green Onions", "Pretty Woman" etc. from the Letterman appearances or the "Cathedral"/"Hot For Teacher"/"Quadrant 4" segment from the Les Paul tribute show.

    I'm saying listen to his jams where he is supposed to improvise...the NAMM jams with Steve Stevens and Tim Bogert and his jam with Allan Holdsworth...he's in the weeds. Because Eddie is a typical rock player in many ways-NOT the improvisational jazz guitarist that people seem to think he is for some strange reason.

    If he ever sounds self-concious and nervous when he is placed in a circumstance where he has to improvise around great improvisers, he might very well be. Because he is not a great improviser.

  12. #1030
    Whoa, this is heavy! Jedi McFly's Avatar
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    I don't think Ed's an improvisational jazz guitarist, I think he's way too stuck in his own world to survive in most other genres. But as a rock guitarist he should've be able to lay back and deliver some simple pentatonic licks in the context of the All Star jam with Sambora and Adams. They were simple, basic rock tunes. There's no excuse.

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  14. #1031
    Atomic Punk Get The Show On The Road's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garbeaj View Post
    But Eddie very often DOES sound like Clapton. He just plays the note-for-note Clapton licks so fast and fluidly that virtually everyone can't hear it. But when you study Eddie's playing closely, you can see that he does play and sound almost exactly like Clapton in many of his greatest solos...which I pointed out in my lesson clip about the "Sitting On Top Of The World" licks. Eddie copied the licks and so much of the tone and feel from Clapton in live Cream primarily and also from the Bluesbreakers era.

    But, as Eddie pointed out himself...most people don't think of Cream and John Mayall & The Bluesbreakers when they think of Clapton. They think of "Layla" or "Lay Down Sally" or "It's In The Way That You Use It"...
    Okay, "nothing like Clapton" was probably the wrong term. But the legato runs and the two handed stuff isn't like Clapton. That stuff to me came from his dad.
    The only genre I really know is Van Halen.

  15. #1032
    Atomic Punk RRvh1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hubs View Post
    I'm pretty sure we've discussed this before elsewhere on the site, RR, but if you haven't yet, check out some of the "VH1 City of Hope All-Star Garage Band" clips on YouTube.

    Your boy Ritchie just walked all over King Edward that day, simply because Ed stayed in his comfort zone and played his "Eddie-isms" and came across very one dimensional. Heck, I'm pretty sure I remember Bryan Adams cutting Ed up once or twice that day, too.

    However, the whole show was pretty friggin' cool!
    Very cool show! I have it on dvd-r.
    Great to see such an ensemble cast of players, yet Eddie stuck out like a sore thumb. In terms of history/innovation/importance, that would be a great thing. In terms of fitting into a jam situation, it wasn't. IMO.

    I like Ed's licks as much as the next guy, yet I can predict when he's going to throw in that descending tapping run!
    Pretty sure there's a few brief moments where Crowe/Adams/Mellancamp seem to roll their eyes.
    "There's too many people on this basketball that's floating around the sun, who are too afraid to allow themselves to FEEL" - Edward Van Halen
    "Van Halen was never about the singer..." - a very wise fan.
    "Embrace the past. Live in the moment but keep your eyes on the future, and keep on moving forward..." - Richie Sambora

  16. #1033
    Atomic Punk Get The Show On The Road's Avatar
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    I think part of the problem with Ed not sounding good outside of Van Halen has to do with Alex not being there. Think about. Most of us have played with numerous drummers and in and out of different bands since we started playing. Ed has pretty much played with Alex and Alex only since he was like 12 years old. Al plays differently then a lot of rock drummers and I'm guessing that could have an effect on Ed when he ventures outside Van Halen.

    To me they're kind of like a symbiotic unit as opposed to two different musicians. You take one of them away and the other is going to be "lost" for lack of a different term.

    Also, 1996 wasn't exactly a stellar time for Ed. Things were going south with Van Halen the band. Yeah, he wasn't great on that show and it did show that "Van Halen licks" don't always translate to other music (as I've discovered myself -LOL). But I don't think it was horrible either.
    The only genre I really know is Van Halen.

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  18. #1034
    Atomic Punk RRvh1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garbeaj View Post
    This is an example that shows why Eddie isn't an improviser in the jazz context or any context really. Even the best technical players have trouble fitting into a jam situation. I saw Steve Vai try to jam some blues on an all star jam thing with B.B. King at the center and he couldn't play blues to save his life. I mean he was really in the weeds.
    Wow, I haven't seen that. Vai jamming with B.B.? I'll have to check that out.
    "There's too many people on this basketball that's floating around the sun, who are too afraid to allow themselves to FEEL" - Edward Van Halen
    "Van Halen was never about the singer..." - a very wise fan.
    "Embrace the past. Live in the moment but keep your eyes on the future, and keep on moving forward..." - Richie Sambora

  19. #1035
    Eruption garbeaj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Get The Show On The Road View Post
    Okay, "nothing like Clapton" was probably the wrong term. But the legato runs and the two handed stuff isn't like Clapton. That stuff to me came from his dad.
    I would say that the very long legato runs, like in the "Girl Gone Bad" solo for example, come from Eddie trying to sound like Allan Holdsworth. Holdsworth is a player that Eddie didn't study note for note, but he did try to sometimes play a few licks that go for the overall feel that Holdsworth's most famous licks have.

    I think that the two handed tapping came from expanding on Jimmy Page's hammer-on/pull-off segment of the beginning of the unaccompanied guitar break in the middle of "Heartbreaker" just as Eddie said.

    The only things that I think Eddie probably got from his father might be his sense of rhythm and time (Eddie and Alex both have this) and maybe the idea of trying to phrase logically so that you wind up on the key note on beat when you play something. And obviously they probably got the whole idea that being a musician is a good thing to want to be because their father was passionate about music, in spite of being broke and having to work hard at other things to take care of the family and even after eventually not being able to play after his accident. Music on the whole is ingrained in the brothers from their father in my opinion rather than any specific licks.
    Last edited by garbeaj; 02.17.17 at 10:35 AM.

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