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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1way2rock View Post
    The institutionalization of greed in the American system has increased poverty and destroyed the middle class and our environment. People and not profits should be the focus of a community and society. That being said, in a capitalistic society we will always have an uneven distribution of wealth. I think most reasonable and slightly educated people can accept that individual initiative and ingenuity will result in different levels of financial success. The problem is that profits have soared through the stratosphere for a very few and the wealth gap has widened from a gorge to Grand Canyon proportions. Profit margins, and the ways in which those profits are utilized, are no longer acceptable or tolerable. Profits are acceptable so long as they are reinvested in the community. Profits are tolerable so as long as all people have a minimum standard of living and the potential for real earning and buying power.

    We should always approach every tax and spend situation by answering these questions in the affirmative.
    1. Does it protect workers?
    2. Does it protect consumers?
    3. Does it protect the environment?
    4. Does it improve the economic health of the community?
    5. Does it enable producers to make a modest profit beyond those profits reinvested in the community?
    6. Does it promote inclusive access to a shared socio-economic environment?

    If we cannot answer yes to all of those questions, then it isn't good for our society.

    What's so disturbing about our culture of greed is that the rich have infected us all with it. When a lower-middle class income earner defends budget cuts for education and social uplift, deregulation in the workplace, marketplace, and the environment, and tax cuts for corporations and wealthy individuals, that person has been infected with the plague of greed. His ignorance of his own exploitation is exactly what the rich want. The rich use their resources and platforms to convince the masses that they too can live like kings. At the same time they use those same resources and platforms to harm or eliminate the means for socio-economic uplift and to hoard the spoils for themselves.
    What? Last I checked greed and capitalism encourage people to achieve goals. In education, workforce, life in general. To say that is it good for our society is a communistic approach to economics.

    Ever heard the term survival of the fittest? I didn't go to school for 22 years to make money to give to someone else. Fuck that. The world needs ditch diggers too. I never got the rational that it's my job to pick up some degenerate's expenses because he made bad life choices. Capitalism is what makes America great. It makes people strive to achieve. Otherwise we'd just be like North Korea.

    Corporations do what they do. Make money. If be worried if that suddenly shifted somehow.


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    ^^^
    Yes, I have studied Herbert Spencer's and William Graham Sumner's philosophy. I find it despicable and incompatible with human compassion.

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  4. #33
    Atomic Punk bklynboy68's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    Very common message in the church. He is driving it home more than most. All should have tremendous respect for this. He's right.
    Yeah, I'm on the fence with him. I think he needs to be clearer in his speeches so that he doesn't have to issue statements clarifying them.
    He knows that the left has been consistently twisting his words, so he should be more precise. The move to make him a leftist forces him to have to do this

    Pope Francis Responds to Marxism Allegations
    Dec. 15, 2013

    Pope Francis denounced Marxism, but said he knew a lot of “good” people who adhere to the political ideology, in an interview published Sunday.

    In an interview with Italian publication La Stampa, the pope dismissed allegations from some conservatives that he is sympathetic to such views, saying “the Marxist ideology is wrong.”

    “The only specific quote I used was the one regarding the ‘trickle-down theories’ which assume that economic growth, encouraged by a free market, will inevitably succeed in bringing about greater justice and social inclusiveness in the world,”
    the Pope added.

    “The promise was that when the glass was full, it would overflow, benefitting the poor,” he continued. “But what happens instead, is that when the glass is full, it magically gets bigger nothing ever comes out for the poor. This was the only reference to a specific theory. I was not, I repeat, speaking from a technical point of view but according to the Church’s social doctrine. This does not mean being a Marxist.”

    Now, he knows that the people he's referring to are not practicing the economic theory correctly, so he should point that out. If he would do that, it would prevent embarrassing moments like this also.

    Response of Pope Francis When Bolivian President Gives Him a Communist Crucifix
    Jul. 9, 2015




    Not long after he arrived in Bolivia, Pope Francis was presented with a gift from the nation’s president — and the Catholic leader didn’t seem appreciative.

    In video footage posted online Thursday, Bolivian President Evo Morales can be seen presenting the Pope with a crucifix that’s shaped like the communist hammer and sickle.

    “No esta bien eso,” Pope Francis responded in Spanish, which translates to “that’s not right.”

    Rome Reports sums up the awkward moment: “The Pope was not amused, and he let the president know about it.”

    As NewsBusters and the Wall Street Journal note, President Morales also “draped a medallion over [the pope's] neck that bore the hammer and sickle.”


    I would also add that his encyclical on climate change is disturbing to me considering that one of the people advising him is Hans Joachim Schellnhuber, a radical atheist and an advocate of population control. So, what gives, pontiff? As John Lennon once sang, "Strange days indeed"
     "He has a swaggering retro machismo that will give hives to the Steinem cabal" -Camille Paglia on Donald Trump

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    "My beef is people thinking Bon Jovi is good cuz they sold lots of records to housewives." -tango

    "But being number one doesn’t really mean jack fuck all. We sold twice as many records as other records that year (1984) that landed in the Number One position." ~Eddie Van Halen

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1way2rock View Post
    The industrial and market revolution in this country came at a human price. Go back and read the history of the industrial revolution from the perspective of American migrants from rural areas, or from immigrants. How many truly lived the rags-to-riches story as peddled by Horatio Alger in his dime novels? Your statistics may support the notion that the standard of living improved for the aggregate, but they ignore the true human costs of such an exploitative system.
    Well, Walter Williams is a distinguished professor at George Mason University, so I suppose that makes him more qualified than either of us.

    Anyway, in what years are we talking about these increases? Today the average price of regular unleaded gas is $2.77. In 1929, the price was $0.21 a gallon or $2.92 in 2015 dollars, so it is cheaper today than it was then. If you want to talk lifetimes, I was born in 1979. Gas was $0.63 a gallon, or $2.06 in today's dollars, a 34% increase in price. That said, we just recently bought a used, 2013 Volt, and we get between 60 and 70 mpg. That's $5600 in 1979 dollars, and the car is safer than most cars at that price range in 1979. So I would say I am way ahead, despite the increase in gas prices in my lifetime.

    So it depends upon where you want to look at the price of gas. Either way, as people get richer globally, demand for oil increases, and the price of gasoline increases too. So gas may be more expensive for us, but global wealth is a good thing. Being poor is the number one risk factor in life expectancy.

    As far as health care and energy, we are talking about two of the most regulated industries in the country, least affected by market forces. But we are living longer, medicine and technology have grown by leaps and bounds, and we live a heck of a lot longer. The longer we live, the more of a drain we are on insurance, the more young, healthy people have to pay in insurance to cover them, and the more we will have to pay in taxes to pay for Medicare. So while we are paying way more, we are living a lot longer, deadly diseases are chronic or eradicated, and that costs something.

    Energy is quite complex. Keeping the electricity grid balanced is more and more complex. We keep adding things that need to be plugged in, which increases demand. We went from phones that don't need to be plugged in to phones that do to extra, portable phones that also need to be plugged in. Multiple fridges, multiple TVs, multiple cable boxes, multiple video players, computers, tablets...the list goes on. On top of that, the price of PV panels has decreased to the point where people more and more are getting them on their home, going mostly "off the grid." This has wreaked havoc on the grid, as it needs to be balanced and the amount of power available has to be precise. When houses just drop off, that's a problem, not to mention how intermittent solar power is (so a fossil fuel plant has to be online for ever solar plant online in case the sun gets covered).

    All that said, wouldn't you know that relative to inflation, electricity prices fell in real dollars from 1990-2010? So I would say that we're doing pretty well. The 1990 price of a kilowatt hour was $13.06 in 2010 dollars, In 2010, the cost $11.44, and in 2015 the price in those constant dollars is $12.56. So with all that increased demand, all of those extra problems, all of the costlier renewable energy, the price has actually decreased. All that new technology and it's cheaper to run it than 25 years ago. Not bad.

    Food is another one, but it also depends upon what you're looking at and what date range you're looking at. Since 2005, according to the BLS, the price of milk has fallen behind inflation. Eggs have increased a bit faster, but regulations have increased on farming chickens. Bread has increased a bit too, but by a small amount that could be explained by demand.

    By what measure has "food" increased by 5-10%?

    Also, are you saying that the lives of immigrants in America has not gotten better since the industrial revolution? I think that is laughable on its face.

  6. #35
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    I don't think the Pope should care if the left "twists" his words. His message is a clear one and both sides hand pick what they like and ignore the rest. This is why I tend to ignore the talking heads from both sides.

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  8. #36
    Atomic Punk bklynboy68's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    I don't think the Pope should care if the left "twists" his words. His message is a clear one and both sides hand pick what they like and ignore the rest. This is why I tend to ignore the talking heads from both sides.

    I disagree. If his message is being twisted then it defeats his purpose. It's his responsibility to not be wishy washy when he speaks. He's no novice, he knows it's happening.
     "He has a swaggering retro machismo that will give hives to the Steinem cabal" -Camille Paglia on Donald Trump

    "But, fucking with Brook is like fucking with hot shit on and ax handle. You just don't get a grip"-track5

    "Make way for the bad guy"- Tony Montana

    'This hamburger don't need no helper"- David Lee Roth

    "I wish Bon Jovi would've given me a call before he recorded all of his hits, because the lyrics would've been smarter, the melodies would've been much more smashing, and they would've sold a lot fewer records." -David Lee Roth

    "My beef is people thinking Bon Jovi is good cuz they sold lots of records to housewives." -tango

    "But being number one doesn’t really mean jack fuck all. We sold twice as many records as other records that year (1984) that landed in the Number One position." ~Eddie Van Halen

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  10. #37
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bklynboy68 View Post
    I disagree. If his message is being twisted then it defeats his purpose. It's his responsibility to not be wishy washy when he speaks. He's no novice, he knows it's happening.
    His message is clear to his followers. If others want to borrow parts of what he says to give them some sort of credibility then do be it. I don't expect my Pope to waste his time with these people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    His message is clear to his followers. If others want to borrow parts of what he says to give them some sort of credibility then do be it. I don't expect my Pope to waste his time with these people.
    Don't forget Mike, his message is for everyone, not just his flock.
     "He has a swaggering retro machismo that will give hives to the Steinem cabal" -Camille Paglia on Donald Trump

    "But, fucking with Brook is like fucking with hot shit on and ax handle. You just don't get a grip"-track5

    "Make way for the bad guy"- Tony Montana

    'This hamburger don't need no helper"- David Lee Roth

    "I wish Bon Jovi would've given me a call before he recorded all of his hits, because the lyrics would've been smarter, the melodies would've been much more smashing, and they would've sold a lot fewer records." -David Lee Roth

    "My beef is people thinking Bon Jovi is good cuz they sold lots of records to housewives." -tango

    "But being number one doesn’t really mean jack fuck all. We sold twice as many records as other records that year (1984) that landed in the Number One position." ~Eddie Van Halen

  12. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by bklynboy68 View Post
    Don't forget Mike, his message is for everyone, not just his flock.
    His message isn't for those who misrepresent it to score political points. Nothing he has said should surprise anyone. But some political types in America seem to want pretend to be part Catholic these days. The Pope would have no time for either sides platform.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post
    Well, Walter Williams is a distinguished professor at George Mason University, so I suppose that makes him more qualified than either of us.

    Anyway, in what years are we talking about these increases? Today the average price of regular unleaded gas is $2.77. In 1929, the price was $0.21 a gallon or $2.92 in 2015 dollars, so it is cheaper today than it was then. If you want to talk lifetimes, I was born in 1979. Gas was $0.63 a gallon, or $2.06 in today's dollars, a 34% increase in price. That said, we just recently bought a used, 2013 Volt, and we get between 60 and 70 mpg. That's $5600 in 1979 dollars, and the car is safer than most cars at that price range in 1979. So I would say I am way ahead, despite the increase in gas prices in my lifetime.

    So it depends upon where you want to look at the price of gas. Either way, as people get richer globally, demand for oil increases, and the price of gasoline increases too. So gas may be more expensive for us, but global wealth is a good thing. Being poor is the number one risk factor in life expectancy.

    As far as health care and energy, we are talking about two of the most regulated industries in the country, least affected by market forces. But we are living longer, medicine and technology have grown by leaps and bounds, and we live a heck of a lot longer. The longer we live, the more of a drain we are on insurance, the more young, healthy people have to pay in insurance to cover them, and the more we will have to pay in taxes to pay for Medicare. So while we are paying way more, we are living a lot longer, deadly diseases are chronic or eradicated, and that costs something.

    Energy is quite complex. Keeping the electricity grid balanced is more and more complex. We keep adding things that need to be plugged in, which increases demand. We went from phones that don't need to be plugged in to phones that do to extra, portable phones that also need to be plugged in. Multiple fridges, multiple TVs, multiple cable boxes, multiple video players, computers, tablets...the list goes on. On top of that, the price of PV panels has decreased to the point where people more and more are getting them on their home, going mostly "off the grid." This has wreaked havoc on the grid, as it needs to be balanced and the amount of power available has to be precise. When houses just drop off, that's a problem, not to mention how intermittent solar power is (so a fossil fuel plant has to be online for ever solar plant online in case the sun gets covered).

    All that said, wouldn't you know that relative to inflation, electricity prices fell in real dollars from 1990-2010? So I would say that we're doing pretty well. The 1990 price of a kilowatt hour was $13.06 in 2010 dollars, In 2010, the cost $11.44, and in 2015 the price in those constant dollars is $12.56. So with all that increased demand, all of those extra problems, all of the costlier renewable energy, the price has actually decreased. All that new technology and it's cheaper to run it than 25 years ago. Not bad.

    Food is another one, but it also depends upon what you're looking at and what date range you're looking at. Since 2005, according to the BLS, the price of milk has fallen behind inflation. Eggs have increased a bit faster, but regulations have increased on farming chickens. Bread has increased a bit too, but by a small amount that could be explained by demand.

    By what measure has "food" increased by 5-10%?

    Also, are you saying that the lives of immigrants in America has not gotten better since the industrial revolution? I think that is laughable on its face.
    I am well aware of Walter Williams's credentials, but I find his positions less than credible. While Mr. Williams's qualifications are noteworthy, his ability to discern the costs versus the benefits of unregulated capitalism are no more impressive than my own. He and I--and it appears that you and I--have two different world views. We must respectfully disagree.

    If immigrants lives have improved, then it is because of their own doing, not because of the WASP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    His message isn't for those who misrepresent it to score political points. Nothing he has said should surprise anyone. But some political types in America seem to want pretend to be part Catholic these days. The Pope would have no time for either sides platform.
    We disagree, then. The good news was brought for all including those that attack it.
     "He has a swaggering retro machismo that will give hives to the Steinem cabal" -Camille Paglia on Donald Trump

    "But, fucking with Brook is like fucking with hot shit on and ax handle. You just don't get a grip"-track5

    "Make way for the bad guy"- Tony Montana

    'This hamburger don't need no helper"- David Lee Roth

    "I wish Bon Jovi would've given me a call before he recorded all of his hits, because the lyrics would've been smarter, the melodies would've been much more smashing, and they would've sold a lot fewer records." -David Lee Roth

    "My beef is people thinking Bon Jovi is good cuz they sold lots of records to housewives." -tango

    "But being number one doesn’t really mean jack fuck all. We sold twice as many records as other records that year (1984) that landed in the Number One position." ~Eddie Van Halen

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    I'm with the Canadian...

    I hate how The Popes words are cherry picked to prop up one's position.

    The Right loves the The Pope, when he's speaking with authority on issues concerning marriage, birth control, and the family. They are curiously quiet when he speaks on governments doing more for the poor.

    The Left loves The Pope when he's admonishing capitalism/greed, climate control etc...they are also quiet when he speaks against the decay of morals in our society.

    As Catholics, we are bound to obey the position of the Church. Do we? No, but that doesn't mean the message is wrong or "outdated".

    It's up to us to figure out why we're in error. I keep an open mind...

    I'm pro choice now but I'm open to why that is wrong by the Church...dont care about gay marriage...open to why I'm wrong about that as well.

    I get annoyed with knee-jerk reactions from critics, of the Church, who have no REAL interest in understanding WHY the Church is against a particular issue.

    I'm not a qualified Catholic apologist or a theologian but it would serve people well to stop being ignorant and just dismissing outright.

    Ok. That was my Catholic rant for the year. Lol

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    Maybe the Pope and the Roman Catholic church should put their money where their mouth is and sell off a couple billion dollars worth of church treasures and give the proceeds to the poor.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fast98dodge View Post
    Maybe the Pope and the Roman Catholic church should put their money where their mouth is and sell off a couple billion dollars worth of church treasures and give the proceeds to the poor.
    Yeah, this is a leftist fairy tale. The Catholic Church is the largest source of charity in the world. Bashing the church on charity may be fun, but it is also ignorant. Even if it sold everything it owned, poverty and suffering would still exist.

     "He has a swaggering retro machismo that will give hives to the Steinem cabal" -Camille Paglia on Donald Trump

    "But, fucking with Brook is like fucking with hot shit on and ax handle. You just don't get a grip"-track5

    "Make way for the bad guy"- Tony Montana

    'This hamburger don't need no helper"- David Lee Roth

    "I wish Bon Jovi would've given me a call before he recorded all of his hits, because the lyrics would've been smarter, the melodies would've been much more smashing, and they would've sold a lot fewer records." -David Lee Roth

    "My beef is people thinking Bon Jovi is good cuz they sold lots of records to housewives." -tango

    "But being number one doesn’t really mean jack fuck all. We sold twice as many records as other records that year (1984) that landed in the Number One position." ~Eddie Van Halen

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    Quote Originally Posted by bklynboy68 View Post
    Yeah, this is a leftist fairy tale. The Catholic Church is the largest source of charity in the world. Bashing the church on charity may be fun, but it is also ignorant. Even if it sold everything it owned, poverty and suffering would still exist.

    I'm fine with them voluntarily being charitable. But it seems as if--and maybe I am wrong--that the Pope would prefer the United States forcibly take my income and redistribute it to the needy. "Charity" by force, by threat of fine and imprisonment. That is the problem I have. They can do it voluntarily, but I cannot.

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