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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk bklynboy68's Avatar
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    Default Andrew Sullivan: Ouster of Mozilla CEO 'Disgusts Me'

    Gay advocacy groups have been attacking tech company Mozilla for appointing a new CEO who once donated $1,000 to a 2008 campaign for traditional marriage in California. In only a week that new CEO has stepped down, prompting some to wonder if supporting traditional marriage is now a "boardroom crime" and if gay advocates have "overstepped."
    At the end of March, Mozilla, maker of the popular web browser Firefox, appointed Brendan Eich as its newest CEO. Eich is the inventor of Javascript – a code that most web browsers need to operate – and a co-founder of Mozilla. However, as soon as he was chosen gay activists began to attack Mozilla because it had been revealed that he donated $1,000 to California's Prop 8, a measure to secure special status for traditional marriage.

    Only a week later, gay fanatics won their battle, with Eich now announcing that he will step down and refuse the role of CEO.

    This state of affairs prompted Andrew Sullivan, a gay author and columnist, to essentially accuse gay activists of quashing Eich's First Amendment rights: "The whole episode disgusts me – as it should disgust anyone interested in a tolerant and diverse society," he wrote. "If we are about intimidating the free speech of others, we are no better than the anti-gay bullies who came before us."

    Michael Barbaro, a reporter for The New York Times, tweeted that Sullivan was calling this "the moment the gay rights movement overstepped," and himself was moved to tweet this: "This is giant news, and makes me wonder, is opposition to gay marriage now a boardroom crime?"

    For its part, Mozilla fell all over itself to apologize to gay activists and apparently didn't see the hypocrisy in its own statements.

    "Mozilla believes both in equality and freedom of speech. Equality is necessary for meaningful speech. And you need free speech to fight for equality," Mozilla Executive Chairwoman Mitchell Baker wrote. "Figuring out how to stand for both at the same time can be hard."

    It seems that the only "freedom of speech" valued by Mozilla is that of gay activists. Religious people need not apply.

    This whole situation serves as an important lesson in the level of so-called "transparency" that liberals want in politics. For years, now, the donor lists for Prop 8 have been used by gay activists as a weapon to destroy people who supported the traditional marriage measure.

    This is the same sort of "transparency" that liberals want for all political donors. They say they want to allow Americans to know who supports what issues, but in truth all they want is a way to find out who they may want to target for destruction.

    At the height of Jim Crow, the U.S. Supreme Court already spoke to these sorts of assassination lists by ruling that the NAACP did not have to inform the State of Alabama who its donors and members were. It was clear, the Court held, that the State was only trying to find out whom to target to destroy the African American advocacy group.

    In its unanimous 1957 decision, the SCOTUS held that forcing the NAACP to reveal its donors and members would have had the effect of suppressing legal association.

    So, the question remains, should a man like Eich, who is eminently qualified to serve as the CEO of a tech company he helped start, be publicly pilloried and have his career destroyed merely because he donated to a political cause the left doesn't like? This is precisely why liberals want donors and membership lists revealed to the public.




    http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2014/...-brendan-eich/

    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journal...la-Disgusts-Me
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  2. #2
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    I'm in agreement with Sullivan.
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    Hang 'Em High sickman's Avatar
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    Easy solution, Gays should stop using the internet. I mean if they are that adamant about it and this guy invented Javascript than they should find another means of communication.

  4. #4
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    I usually find myself agreeing with Sullivan, that crazy gay Catholic.

    If Wruff was still here it would be because I am a repressed homosexual deviant that is trying to undermine the Church....
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    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    Wait--I thought money wasn't speech...? That's what Jon Stewart told me last night. How do these people know he is against gay marriage just because he gave $1000 in support of Prop 8?

    Anyway, while I truly believe that the left is unknowingly as hypocritical as any other group by championing tolerance and then being incredibly intolerant of people who disagree with them, this is pretty much a business responding to market signals.

    I think it is worth noting that the CEO of Chick-fil-A came out recently saying he regretted going public with his views on marriage. "Every leader goes through different phases of maturity, growth and development and it helps by [recognizing] the mistakes that you make. And you learn from those mistakes. If not, you’re just a fool. I’m thankful that I lived through it and I learned a lot from it ... The bottom line is we have a responsibility here to keep the whole of the organization in mind, and it has to take precedence over the personal expression and opinion on social issues." (http://time.com/49136/brendan-eich-m...-gay-marriage/)

    Now, the Chick-fil-A CEO actually voluntarily went public by allowing himself to be quoted that he believed in traditional marriage. The Mozilla CEO merely gave money, but that information is public and has been available for a long time. But if you decide to say things or support things and people don't like it--enough to create harm or threaten harm against the business you run or work for--well, you run that risk.

    You have a right to freely speak your mind and not be punished for it by the government, but that doesn't mean you have a right to be protected by market forces even if we think the people raising the ruckus are misguided.

    I'd rather have much more of this and much less of the government threatening jail at gunpoint because you won't bake a cake for a gay couple.
    Last edited by lovemachine97(Version 2); 04.04.14 at 08:33 AM.

  6. #6
    Atomic Punk bklynboy68's Avatar
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    Exposed: Accusations of Hypocrisy in Company’s Crusade to Oust Mozilla CEO Over Political Donation

    Business
    The online dating site OkCupid led the charge to create a firestorm of controversy over Mozilla CEO Brendan Eich’s $1,000 donation to the campaign for Proposition 8 in 2008. The site went as far as to change its homepage for Mozilla Firefox users to suggest to users that Eich is anti-gay.


    When Eich stepped down within a few days of the boycott, the company cheered.

    “We are pleased that OkCupid’s boycott has brought tremendous awareness to the critical matter of equal rights for all individuals and partnerships,” OkCupid wrote in a statement.

    Then on Monday it emerged that OkCupid’s co-founder and CEO Sam Yagan made a donation to a congressional candidate who opposed same-sex marriage, voted against a ban on sexual-orientation based job discrimination and for prohibition of gay adoptions, according to Uncrunched.

    Records show Yagan, who is also the CEO of Match.com, donated $500 to Rep. Chris Cannon (R-Utah) in 2004. The congressman also reportedly earned a 0 percent rating from the pro-abortion group NARAL Pro Choice America.

    Critics say the similar donation shows a level of hypocrisy in the company’s actions.

    Few would deny that if anyone can be fired because they made a donation to a person or cause that a percentage of the population disagrees with, the implications for free speech are absolutely chilling.


    Mother Jones has more:

    Of course, it’s been a decade since Yagan’s donation to Cannon, and a decade or more since many of Cannon’s votes on gay rights. It’s possible that Cannon’s opinions have shifted, or maybe his votes were more politics than ideology; a tactic by the Mormon Rep. to satisfy his Utah constituency. It’s also quite possible that Yagan’s politics have changed since 2004: He donated to Barack Obama’s campaign in 2007 and 2008. Perhaps even Firefox’s Eich has rethought LGBT equality since his 2008 donation. But OkCupid didn’t include any such nuance in its take-down of Firefox. Combine that with the fact that the company helped force out one tech CEO for something its own CEO also did, and its action last week starts to look more like a PR stunt than an impassioned act of protest.

    Many people, even those who disagree with Eich’s donation, have spoken out against the act of silencing people just because they have a different opinion.

    Even openly gay far-left blogger Andrew Sullivan panned the effort, finding rare common ground with conservative personalities who think free speech is more important than political beliefs.

    “The whole episode disgusts me – as it should disgust anyone interested in a tolerant and diverse society. If this is the gay rights movement today – hounding our opponents with a fanaticism more like the religious right than anyone else – then count me out,” Sullivan wrote. “If we are about intimidating the free speech of others, we are no better than the anti-gay bullies who came before us.”






    http://uncrunched.com/2014/04/06/the...upid/#comments

    http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2014...ti-gay-firefox

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014...ical-donation/
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  7. #7
    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    I seriously just don't get it. It's perfectly fine for the government to force a person by fine and/or imprisonment to bake a cake for a gay wedding against their will and religious beliefs, but when a business responds voluntarily to market forces, it's an outrage?

    I agree that the effective banishment from society for thoughts and words is not how we should be handling these things as a community. Tolerance means being tolerant of viewpoints you find offensive, not just viewpoints you agree with. That's called "agreeing," not "tolerating."

    There is a difference between feeling you've been affected by something and actually being affected by something. By all accounts so far, he never treated anyone differently or discriminated. All he did was donate money to a cause that ended up being unconstitutional. Protesting that to a point where a guy resigns is too far.

    That said, this solution via market forces is much more agreeable than government force.


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    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    This is happening in Oregon now. An organic food store--yet to even open--is coming under fire for a private Facebook post by the owner which denounced gay marriage. The owner also posted an article by a journalist arguing that businesses should be able to discriminate if they so choose.

    The owner has said that these are private beliefs, and she did not expect her private Facebook posts to be made public, but that she never planned on refusing service and she will not run her business in a discriminatory way.

    My favorite quote from the article is this: "'They’re choosing to open a business in a very open-minded neighborhood,' said Tom Brown, owner of Brown Properties and president of the Sellwood Moreland Business Alliance. 'I think their personal views are going to hurt.'” (http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/i..._cause_fu.html)

    That the tolerance police can't see the irony here is astounding to me.

    Maybe we should just recognize that the tolerant and intolerant will not get along, but that the intolerant have rights too. So we could have separate bathrooms for tolerant and intolerant people, separate businesses that only serve tolerant or intolerant people (not both), and separate drinking fountains depending upon whether you're tolerant or intolerant. Perhaps that would solve the issue.

    It's in the name of tolerance, after all.
    Last edited by lovemachine97(Version 2); 04.08.14 at 02:07 PM.

  9. #9
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post
    This is happening in Oregon now. An organic food store--yet to even open--is coming under fire for a private Facebook post by the owner which denounced gay marriage. The owner also posted an article by a journalist arguing that businesses should be able to discriminate if they so choose.

    The owner has said that these are private beliefs, and she did not expect her private Facebook posts to be made public, but that she never planned on refusing service and she will not run her business in a discriminatory way.

    My favorite quote from the article is this: "'They’re choosing to open a business in a very open-minded neighborhood,' said Tom Brown, owner of Brown Properties and president of the Sellwood Moreland Business Alliance. 'I think their personal views are going to hurt.'” (http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/i..._cause_fu.html)

    That the tolerance police can't see the irony here is astounding to me.

    Maybe we should just recognize that the tolerant and intolerant will not get along, but that the intolerant have rights too. So we could have separate bathrooms for tolerant and intolerant people, separate businesses that only serve tolerant or intolerant people (not both), and separate drinking fountains depending upon whether you're tolerant or intolerant. Perhaps that would solve the issue.

    It's in the name of tolerance, after all.
    what's wrong with her coming under fire for her personal beliefs? She has the right to her beliefs, she doesn't have the right to not be criticized.

  10. #10
    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    what's wrong with her coming under fire for her personal beliefs? She has the right to her beliefs, she doesn't have the right to not be criticized.
    These people are coming under fire for their "personal beliefs" in the name of being "tolerant," they say. Of course, that's a lie.

    Look, there is no government here, and I think doing things privately as opposed to suing people is the more effective way of changing people's minds. The CEO of Chick-fil-A came out recently and basically said that he realizes now he should've kept his mouth shut. As a business, he realizes now he serves a wide variety of people, not just people who agree with him.

    With Chick-fil-A, the company was donating millions of dollars to many anti-gay marriage causes, as was the family that owns it, as were charitable organizations started by the family. Dan Cathy actually went on the radio as a representative of the company and talked about how "arrogant" you are if you think you know better than God what a marriage is. I can sort of understand it in this situation--the company itself was actually involved in this.

    That's much different than donating $1000 eight years ago to Prop 8--not as a representative of Mozilla--especially without taking time to find out if his opinion had changed, considering the two main Democratic candidates for President in 2008 did not believe in gay marriage at the same time Eich donated that money.

    And that's even further from a private post on Facebook--not as a representative of her business.

    When this was going on during the civil rights movement, people were being denied equal access to private businesses by law, and the businesses themselves were required to deny services to certain peoples. Now, it's almost that if your personal opinion isn't in line with the chosen point of view, you shouldn't own a businesses or be employed by anyone--even if there's no indication your personal opinions clouded the actions of your business. (This is assuming this wouldn't have stopped until Eich was fired or stepped down, which I believe.)

    Any business that actually denies service or discriminates against any one group should be targeted the loudest and the most often. I do not think the government should be involved, but the outrage and boycotting should be reserved for businesses doing this. Next, if a company is promoting discriminatory public policy, they should suffer similarly, but in line with whether or not the company is actually practicing discrimination themselves.

    The most contempt should be held for the government, because if they deny services there is no one else. You can always go to another photographer, chicken joint, or use another web browser. You can't go to your states "other" government to see if they will give you a marriage.

    But if someone once somewhere privately expressed an opinion you disagree with--why should they suffer just like the above? Because the goal isn't just equality and the changing of opinions, it's actually to banish from society anyone who thinks differently. In the name of tolerance.

  11. #11
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    but this is all about freedom, right LM? The company hires a CEO and if this person (in any way) upsets a decent segment of their potential market then he better be amazing at his/her job. If they are not, then they are in deep shit. This is what happened here. Nothing wrong with it at all. No matter your opinion on the topic at hand (and I'm more on his side I'd be willing to bet) you can't have controversial opinions if you're the CEO of a big company and expect to last.

    If one has an issue with the "resignation" then they should take that issue to the board that canned him. If they truly believed in him then he'd still have a job. Methinks he was on thin ice before this thing came to light.

  12. #12
    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    but this is all about freedom, right LM? The company hires a CEO and if this person (in any way) upsets a decent segment of their potential market then he better be amazing at his/her job. If they are not, then they are in deep shit. This is what happened here. Nothing wrong with it at all. No matter your opinion on the topic at hand (and I'm more on his side I'd be willing to bet) you can't have controversial opinions if you're the CEO of a big company and expect to last.

    If one has an issue with the "resignation" then they should take that issue to the board that canned him. If they truly believed in him then he'd still have a job. Methinks he was on thin ice before this thing came to light.
    Again, this is preferable to government intervention for me, but I think the Tolerance Police are going about this incorrectly. And I do have an issue with Mozilla. Their statement after Eich stepped down was an insult to people who think. They should have stood up against all this.

    Sadly, I think what this is leading to is sort of inevitable. With the ubiquity of information, I'll be able to find out whether or not I buy my milk from someone who is sending money to or saying things I disagree with, and I will have to decide not only if I want to continue to patronize that person's market, but also if I want to be judged by others for patronizing that market.

    You can't force people to change their opinion, which is why using government force won't work. Market-based solutions do work, as evidenced by the Chick-fil-A CEO's change in rhetoric. And if we continue to engage the CEO from Chick-fil-A, he might even change his mind. Government force cannot do that, but conversation can.

    Look, my girlfriend's 5-year old nephew cries at everything. It's becoming a problem, because he cries the same whether he (and I have seen it) spills one drop of water from his cup while walking or he bites his tongue, takes a chunk out, and bleeds profusely.

    I mention that because his reaction to everything negative is the same. So you don't know if he is truly hurt or just being a wuss. That's the mistake the Tolerance Police are making here. If you want to change minds, go after things that are actually affecting you, not after things that are not. And engage people, don't banish them. All you're doing is making it worse. You even have gays who were in favor of using government to force people to do things against their will who are balking at this. Keep going and this could all have the reverse effect. There are non-liberals that I have seen and some that I know who have all said that they have been in favor of gay marriage for a long time, but are considering changing their minds due to the tactics of this movement.

    They feel like it really isn't a civil rights movement anymore, it's a "think like a liberal or go away" movement.
    Last edited by lovemachine97(Version 2); 04.09.14 at 11:23 AM.

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    The whole fucking country needs to get a thicker set of skin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post
    Again, this is preferable to government intervention for me, but I think the Tolerance Police are going about this incorrectly. And I do have an issue with Mozilla. Their statement after Eich stepped down was an insult to people who think. They should have stood up against all this.

    Sadly, I think what this is leading to is sort of inevitable. With the ubiquity of information, I'll be able to find out whether or not I buy my milk from someone who is sending money to or saying things I disagree with, and I will have to decide not only if I want to continue to patronize that person's market, but also if I want to be judged by others for patronizing that market.

    You can't force people to change their opinion, which is why using government force won't work. Market-based solutions do work, as evidenced by the Chick-fil-A CEO's change in rhetoric. And if we continue to engage the CEO from Chick-fil-A, he might even change his mind. Government force cannot do that, but conversation can.

    Look, my girlfriend's 5-year old nephew cries at everything. It's becoming a problem, because he cries the same whether he (and I have seen it) spills one drop of water from his cup while walking or he bites his tongue, takes a chunk out, and bleeds profusely.

    I mention that because his reaction to everything negative is the same. So you don't know if he is truly hurt or just being a wuss. That's the mistake the Tolerance Police are making here. If you want to change minds, go after things that are actually affecting you, not after things that are not. And engage people, don't banish them. All you're doing is making it worse. You even have gays who were in favor of using government to force people to do things against their will who are balking at this. Keep going and this could all have the reverse effect. There are non-liberals that I have seen and some that I know who have all said that they have been in favor of gay marriage for a long time, but are considering changing their minds due to the tactics of this movement.

    They feel like it really isn't a civil rights movement anymore, it's a "think like a liberal or go away" movement.
    Mozilla is a private company that can choose to hire or fire the CEO when they want. If there was not just cause for this termination then I'm guessing he wouldn't have resigned unless a golden parachute came with it. I think we need to be very careful when we assume that public pressure is the real reason behind someone's dismissal. Sometime's it is just a clever excuse to do something that many board members were already working on

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    Just throwing this out there but if one donates to the Republican party and they have a platform for traditional marriage, isn't it pretty much the same thing?

    I assume a lot of CEO's should start to step down.

    I support gay rights but right now some of them deserve to have their Lady Gaga records smashed.

 

 

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    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 06.28.02, 05:33 AM

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