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  1. #1
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    Default Pro-Fracking EXXON CEO says NO Fracking IMBY

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...cking/5726603/

    Exxon Mobil's CEO has joined a lawsuit to stop construction of a water tower near his home that would be used to in the fracking process to drill for oil.

    While fracking -- hydraulic fracturing of rock to release pockets of oil -- has raised complaints from environmentalists around the country, Chairman and CEO Rex Tillerson's opposition to a project in his own neighborhood is interesting, given how deeply Exxon Mobil is involved in the process.

    Tillerson appeared at a Town Council meeting in Bartonville, Tex., the wealthy enclave near his Dallas home last November to join in the protest over the water tower, The Wall Street Journal reports.

    The lawsuit contends the project would create "a noise nuisance and traffic hazards." Trucks would be needed to haul and pump water.

    The tower, being built by Cross Timbers Water Supply, would rise 15 stories, the Journal says. It's adjacent to Tillerson's 83-acre horse ranch and not far from an 18-acre homestead. Tillerson is devoting considerable time to the matter: he sat for three hours in the lawsuit last May and attended an all-day mediation session in September, besides his Town Council appearance.

    Among the others opposing the project are those who are not exactly known for environmental crusading: former U.S.House Majority Leader Dick Armey and his wife are the lead plaintiffs.

    An Exxon Mobil spokesman contacted by the Journal said that the suit is Tillerson's own matter and the oil giant "has no involvement in the legal matter."
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  2. #2
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    12.14.17 @ 05:41 PM
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    Why do I think that fracking the whole country to the fullest extreme to get oil would not bring the price of gas down? Ethanol anyone?
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  3. #3
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    Don't even get me STARTED on this fracking crap.

    Despite the fact that we have tried it out briefly - and experienced mini earth-quakes, and a poisoning of the water-supply as a consequence, AND the fact that the WHOLE of the rest of Europe has banned it...WE are still going to do it, despite the protestations of the population - because the AMERICANS are doing it, so it must be OK, right?

    If it's so "OK", why is government having to blackmail local authorities (councils) into letting it take place?

    And why is the British government so stupid that they can't see that America is a GAZILLION times bigger and emptier than us - hence more space to conduct this awful practice, should they so wish? I mean, you can fit the whole of mainland Britain into Nevada, and have 30,000 square miles left to spare, for God's sake!

    We are massively over-populated as it is - and they're now going to use what little bits of greenery we have left, to FRACK??? Or are they just planning on doing it in people's back gardens, and hang the consequences? (I'm thinking more and more sink-holes, contaminated water, and subsidence). One thing's for sure - you can rest assured that Mr Cameron and his cronies won't let it affect their salubrious neighbourhoods, oh no - think of the property values!!!!!!

    I have one message for Cameron and his Tory posh-boy pals: FRACK OFF!!!
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  4. #4
    Baluchitherium sinner's swing's Avatar
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    12.12.17 @ 02:41 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by dibblekins View Post
    Don't even get me STARTED on this fracking crap.

    Despite the fact that we have tried it out briefly - and experienced mini earth-quakes, and a poisoning of the water-supply as a consequence, AND the fact that the WHOLE of the rest of Europe has banned it...WE are still going to do it, despite the protestations of the population - because the AMERICANS are doing it, so it must be OK, right?

    If it's so "OK", why is government having to blackmail local authorities (councils) into letting it take place?

    And why is the British government so stupid that they can't see that America is a GAZILLION times bigger and emptier than us - hence more space to conduct this awful practice, should they so wish? I mean, you can fit the whole of mainland Britain into Nevada, and have 30,000 square miles left to spare, for God's sake!

    We are massively over-populated as it is - and they're now going to use what little bits of greenery we have left, to FRACK??? Or are they just planning on doing it in people's back gardens, and hang the consequences? (I'm thinking more and more sink-holes, contaminated water, and subsidence). One thing's for sure - you can rest assured that Mr Cameron and his cronies won't let it affect their salubrious neighbourhoods, oh no - think of the property values!!!!!!

    I have one message for Cameron and his Tory posh-boy pals: FRACK OFF!!!


    I will respectfully disagree and point out that most of the above is overreaction. No offense meant to you personally. Never any proof of sinkholes, earthquakes or drinking water contamination. Noise pollution while in production, and possible accidents due to human error are the only real negative at this point. Sixty plus years of the process and it gets safer and more regulated daily. And no, I don't work for any oil or gas company, or am paid in any way to promote it. In fact, I used to be against the process altogether. Of course, I have no experience or info about the UK, but if you apply your argument to North America, it's extremely off. Some of the loudest and craziest people in the world are anti oil and gas protesters. They mangle and destroy MUCH more than any development ever has. And of course mainstream media eats it up like Grandma's thanksgiving pie.

  5. #5
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinner's swing View Post
    I will respectfully disagree and point out that most of the above is overreaction. No offense meant to you personally. Never any proof of sinkholes, earthquakes or drinking water contamination. Noise pollution while in production, and possible accidents due to human error are the only real negative at this point. Sixty plus years of the process and it gets safer and more regulated daily. And no, I don't work for any oil or gas company, or am paid in any way to promote it. In fact, I used to be against the process altogether. Of course, I have no experience or info about the UK, but if you apply your argument to North America, it's extremely off. Some of the loudest and craziest people in the world are anti oil and gas protesters. They mangle and destroy MUCH more than any development ever has. And of course mainstream media eats it up like Grandma's thanksgiving pie.
    It isn't over-reaction when I have seen it and experienced it for myself, SS! They were attempting to frack in the North West of the UK, where I live - (funnily enough, they didn't want to conduct their little experiments down South, near the capital, and Tory-heartland ), and it resulted in pretty frightening earth-tremors. Those in charge of the fracking actually admitted their responsibility and called a halt to it all before they caused major damage to property.

    They tell us that they have now 'tweaked' things to prevent reoccurrence of the initial problems...But, if that is the case, and it's absolutely fine and dandy, it begs the question why scientists and environmental experts across Europe have found the process to be so detrimental that governments have seen fit to ban it, despite the obvious benefits in terms of energy production, and money-making potential.

    Plus, (and no offence to you, either, SS) I don't think one even has to have the slightest expert knowledge to recognise that drilling around people's houses, in order to release gas buried deep underground, in the rocks that form the foundations to all the local infrastructure, is a process which is inevitably going to cause all manner of issues, damaging to the environment in all sorts of ways.

    Also, as I mentioned, whilst you might be able to get away with doing something like this in a nation spanning 3.79 million square miles, it's never going to be so easy in one of less than 100 thousand!!! Environmental concerns aside for one moment, it raises all sorts of legal issues - not least the rights a property-owner has to the land beneath his / her home, and what will happen with regard to compensating the people in those areas affected, as the value of their houses plummets.

    Speaking from a UK-perspective, it is SOOO frustrating when, as an island, we have one constant, and extremely powerful resource - the tides / waves - that could be tapped much more reliably, and with far less impact on the native population, which isn't pursued. Of course, the government is not willing to properly investigate such a method, ostensibly because of the initial outlay required (but more probably because of shady back-handers about which they keep mum - very much like those relating to wind-farms and how it is Cameron's own father-in-law who is the businessman making the most from government subsidies for them. )

    Seriously, if it isn't about those in power making a fast-buck somewhere along the line, it's about bad politics, and the election-conscious short-term thinking that permeates Westminster. It makes me SICK!!!
    I'm FEMALE...Deal with it!

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  7. #7
    Baluchitherium sinner's swing's Avatar
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    12.12.17 @ 02:41 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdnangel View Post
    You're entitled. I won't bother getting into a link war. There are as many internet links proving and debunking, as there are with "evidence" from anti development organizations. It's all good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sinner's swing View Post
    You're entitled. I won't bother getting into a link war. There are as many internet links proving and debunking, as there are with "evidence" from anti development organizations. It's all good.
    Ernst, whose research I was directing you to, hales from the oil and gas industry...

    My grandfather was an Alberta oil pioneer...those bastards care only about money. Their wells ARE their family.

    "Having consulted for the oil and gas industry for thirty years, Ernst became concerned about its impacts when they began to hit home – “living with dangerous contamination after EnCana hydraulically fractured my community’s drinking water aquifers.”

    Ernst’s battle with Encana prompted her to bring a landmark lawsuit against the company in Alberta last year.

    Ernst cites the industry’s propensity for secrecy and covering up impacts from its operations as a key motivation for compiling this broad spectrum of evidence. In the preface to her report, she quotes renowned energy journalist Andrew Nikiforuk: “As somebody who has reported for 20 years on this industry in [Alberta], I can tell you I’ve met hundreds of people in this province who have signed confidentiality agreements once their water was blown, once their livestock was killed, once a member of their family were injured, once they lost most of their grass or their trees as a result of fouling events, contamination events, air pollution, you name it.”

  9. #9
    Baluchitherium sinner's swing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dibblekins View Post
    It isn't over-reaction when I have seen it and experienced it for myself, SS! They were attempting to frack in the North West of the UK, where I live - (funnily enough, they didn't want to conduct their little experiments down South, near the capital, and Tory-heartland ), and it resulted in pretty frightening earth-tremors. Those in charge of the fracking actually admitted their responsibility and called a halt to it all before they caused major damage to property.

    They tell us that they have now 'tweaked' things to prevent reoccurrence of the initial problems...But, if that is the case, and it's absolutely fine and dandy, it begs the question why scientists and environmental experts across Europe have found the process to be so detrimental that governments have seen fit to ban it, despite the obvious benefits in terms of energy production, and money-making potential.

    Plus, (and no offence to you, either, SS) I don't think one even has to have the slightest expert knowledge to recognise that drilling around people's houses, in order to release gas buried deep underground, in the rocks that form the foundations to all the local infrastructure, is a process which is inevitably going to cause all manner of issues, damaging to the environment in all sorts of ways.

    Also, as I mentioned, whilst you might be able to get away with doing something like this in a nation spanning 3.79 million square miles, it's never going to be so easy in one of less than 100 thousand!!! Environmental concerns aside for one moment, it raises all sorts of legal issues - not least the rights a property-owner has to the land beneath his / her home, and what will happen with regard to compensating the people in those areas affected, as the value of their houses plummets.

    Speaking from a UK-perspective, it is SOOO frustrating when, as an island, we have one constant, and extremely powerful resource - the tides / waves - that could be tapped much more reliably, and with far less impact on the native population, which isn't pursued. Of course, the government is not willing to properly investigate such a method, ostensibly because of the initial outlay required (but more probably because of shady back-handers about which they keep mum - very much like those relating to wind-farms and how it is Cameron's own father-in-law who is the businessman making the most from government subsidies for them. )

    Seriously, if it isn't about those in power making a fast-buck somewhere along the line, it's about bad politics, and the election-conscious short-term thinking that permeates Westminster. It makes me SICK!!!

    And there lies the difference. I wasn't aware that they were drilling in peoples back yards over there, though I suspect back yards is a term loosely used. Maybe not, I don't know.
    Wind farms span larger areas and cause way more damage, and are powered by coal and fossil fuels. Tidal power, or geo thermal if harnessed properly, would be great, except the technology is not ready. Many variables make tidal a crap shoot at the moment. Where I live, studies and experiments have been scrapped due to the volatile and unpredictable nature of the ocean. Equipment that was designed to withstand anything, was chewed to bits.
    I'd LOVE to have some sort of sustainable green energy that was feasible and wouldn't cost trillions in infrastructure to develop, but it's still a long way off, contrary to what some believe. Meanwhile a process exists, that is not the devil that a minority of loud eco terrorists would like us to believe. (I do have much experience with these types of people, and yes they are that crazy from first hand experience) Are there potential dangers? You bet. There are potential dangers in everything we do. Wind turbines have killed millions of birds, Solar kills wildlife too, costs 50 times more and has a much larger footprint. Here, the plan is much different to what you say is going on over there. I'm sure there will be human error, as it is in every facet of industry. But also, it will be nowhere near anyone's back yard. If that's what's going on over there, that's not good. And if life has taught me one thing, it's that the truth lies somewhere in between the sky is falling luddites and the pie in the sky everything is 100 % safe people. That's where I try to be. Hope everything changes for the better over there.

  10. #10
    Baluchitherium sinner's swing's Avatar
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    12.12.17 @ 02:41 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdnangel View Post
    Ernst, whose research I was directing you to, hales from the oil and gas industry...

    My grandfather was an Alberta oil pioneer...those bastards care only about money. Their wells ARE their family.

    "Having consulted for the oil and gas industry for thirty years, Ernst became concerned about its impacts when they began to hit home – “living with dangerous contamination after EnCana hydraulically fractured my community’s drinking water aquifers.”

    Ernst’s battle with Encana prompted her to bring a landmark lawsuit against the company in Alberta last year.

    Ernst cites the industry’s propensity for secrecy and covering up impacts from its operations as a key motivation for compiling this broad spectrum of evidence. In the preface to her report, she quotes renowned energy journalist Andrew Nikiforuk: “As somebody who has reported for 20 years on this industry in [Alberta], I can tell you I’ve met hundreds of people in this province who have signed confidentiality agreements once their water was blown, once their livestock was killed, once a member of their family were injured, once they lost most of their grass or their trees as a result of fouling events, contamination events, air pollution, you name it.”
    Like I said, you're entitled to beg to differ. Have a good one.

  11. #11
    Baluchitherium sinner's swing's Avatar
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    As an aside for a little info on my point of view, myself and my security team were held against our will (last year) in a fenced compound during a blockade for 27 hours, while being treated to guerrilla warfare tactics that were professionally taught to them by the Sierra Club and the Tides Foundation. They marched around us, every hour on the hour telling us that we weren't going home, to call our families and beg forgiveness. Also I won't quote the actual language as it was quite salty, but threats to kill and rape our families as well as us, were also shouted over the megaphones, by drugged up "people." (for lack of a nicer term) After the fact, I found out that we were 100 feet away from pressure cooker pipe bombs and an cache of rifles and ammo. So forgive me please, if my point of view is a little skewed on the subject
    Last edited by sinner's swing; 02.23.14 at 03:32 PM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinner's swing View Post
    And there lies the difference. I wasn't aware that they were drilling in peoples back yards over there, though I suspect back yards is a term loosely used. Maybe not, I don't know.
    Wind farms span larger areas and cause way more damage, and are powered by coal and fossil fuels. Tidal power, or geo thermal if harnessed properly, would be great, except the technology is not ready. Many variables make tidal a crap shoot at the moment. Where I live, studies and experiments have been scrapped due to the volatile and unpredictable nature of the ocean. Equipment that was designed to withstand anything, was chewed to bits.
    I'd LOVE to have some sort of sustainable green energy that was feasible and wouldn't cost trillions in infrastructure to develop, but it's still a long way off, contrary to what some believe. Meanwhile a process exists, that is not the devil that a minority of loud eco terrorists would like us to believe. (I do have much experience with these types of people, and yes they are that crazy from first hand experience) Are there potential dangers? You bet. There are potential dangers in everything we do. Wind turbines have killed millions of birds, Solar kills wildlife too, costs 50 times more and has a much larger footprint. Here, the plan is much different to what you say is going on over there. I'm sure there will be human error, as it is in every facet of industry. But also, it will be nowhere near anyone's back yard. If that's what's going on over there, that's not good. And if life has taught me one thing, it's that the truth lies somewhere in between the sky is falling luddites and the pie in the sky everything is 100 % safe people. That's where I try to be. Hope everything changes for the better over there.
    Sadly, no, SS - I wasn't being flippant with regard to the "back yard" reference - when you live on an island as small as this one, it's unavoidable. The green space we have left is virtually all protected (rightly so) - so you're left with suburban areas - and that's about it.

    As to the wind farms, I could not agree more with EVERYTHING you're saying. They are a repulsive sight, and have completely ruined the beautiful Welsh coastline by which I live; they don't work (you very rarely see the bloody things actually turning); they cost a fortune; they kill all the surrounding wildlife; they don't biodegrade once their 'useful' life is over (no, they simply get left in-situ, and more of the things are put up) - oh, and did I mention that THEY DON'T WORK (I think the estimate is that they fulfil about 1 - 3% of our country's energy requirements).

    I think we both sort of agree that wave / tidal power is the way forward - I watched a TV investigation some time ago, which showed a British fellow who had invented some mechanism to tap it, but the financial investment and political will simply wasn't / isn't there. The problem is that there are too many ruthless and amoral people making money off the whole situation in its current form - and whilst that continues, nothing is going to change or get better.

    I have to say though, although I wouldn't do the horrendous things (or anything remotely similar) you described in your last post, there is no way I am going to let the fracking take place over here without one HELLUVA fight...

    Just watch this space!
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  13. #13
    Atomic Punk Little Dreamer's Avatar
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    12.14.17 @ 01:39 PM
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    I'm absolutely FOR fracking in this case. I support fracking in the EXXON CEO's dinning room, opening an oil well in his bathroom, and the immediate demolition of his multi-car garage to extract natural gas. Let the jackhammers have their way with his swimming pool, and let the black gold fill it up to the brim. Frack, and frack some more. Do not stop! It needs to be a round the clock operation, so great is the necessity to free us from the dependency on foreign oil - i.e. sending money to terrorist. Being against this would surely be un-american!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Dreamer View Post
    I'm absolutely FOR fracking in this case. I support fracking in the EXXON CEO's dinning room, opening an oil well in his bathroom, and the immediate demolition of his multi-car garage to extract natural gas. Let the jackhammers have their way with his swimming pool, and let the black gold fill it up to the brim. Frack, and frack some more. Do not stop! It needs to be a round the clock operation, so great is the necessity to free us from the dependency on foreign oil - i.e. sending money to terrorist. Being against this would surely be un-american!
    And the price would still go up lol.
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    3 LA City Councilmembers Launch Study to Determine If Fracking Caused Earthquake

    http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/3-la...sed-earthquake

    After widespread speculation by the Twitterverse that fracking caused the earthquake that shook Los Angeles on Monday, three LA City Council members have now moved to begin a study on whether indeed fracking could be behind the seismic event. Councilmen Paul Koretz, Bernard Parks, and Mike Bonin have asked city departments to work with the US Geological Survey, the South Coast Air Quality Management District, and the California Division of Oil, Gas and Geothermal Resources to determine whether fracking contributed to the earthquake.

    The City Council has already moved to ban fracking within the city. The City Council vote was a unanimous 10-0, with Parks telling the press, “We’ve learned a great deal about the problems with fracking, and it is because of these grassroots groups that we’ve been educated.”

    ~~8 U.S.C. § 1182(f)~~

 

 

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