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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk
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    Default They quit their jobs, thanks to health-care...

    Count Polly Lower among those who quit their jobs because of the health-care law.

    It happened in September, when her boss abruptly changed her job description. She went from doing payroll, which she liked, to working on her boss’s schedule, which she loathed. At another time, she might have had to grit her teeth and accept the new position because she needed the health benefits.

    But with the health-care law soon to take effect, she simply resigned — and hasn’t looked back.

    “It was wonderful. It was very freeing,” said Lower, 56, of Bourbon, Ind., who is now babysitting her 5-year-old granddaughter full time. With the help of federal subsidies that kicked in Jan. 1, she is paying less than $500 a month for health coverage for herself and her husband.



    Lower is an example of the latest controversy to spring up around the Affordable Care Act: its impact on the workforce.

    The equivalent of about 2.5 million Americans will quit their jobs, cut their hours or stop looking for work during the next decade because of new benefits available under the health-care law, according to recent Congressional Budget Office estimates that have renewed debate over the program’s effect on the economy.

    In its report, the nonpartisan CBO says that workers, taking into consideration the new financial assistance available from the federal government to make insurance more affordable for low- and middle-income people, will scale back their productivity.

    It contends that the effect on the labor force will be most pronounced among those who qualify for the subsidies — certain low-income people who make up to 400 percent of the federal poverty level, or $45,000 annually for an individual. The more money people make, the lower their subsidies.

    The report cited evidence that government health-insurance programs for the poor discourage work. A study in Tennessee found that the employment rate ticked upward after the state in 2005 kicked 170,000 adults off Medicaid, the state-federal insurance program for the poor.

    Economists across the political spectrum agree that workers’ decisions will have an effect on the economy. But like other debates about the law, this one divides along ideological lines and hinges on differing opinions about the fundamental role of government in the lives of Americans.

    The White House and its allies argue that the government has a role in addressing a failure of the health-insurance market: the high prices and coverage restrictions that have kept health coverage out of reach for so many people. Like Social Security, which provides a safety net so people can retire, the health law may have the effect of leading some Americans to stop working, they say.

    But they called the impact positive, arguing that people have for too long been stuck in jobs that are a poor fit or that they dislike, simply for the benefits. While some people may make the calculation to just work less to keep more generous benefits, many will use their time to do something more productive, such as start their own business or take care of family members, advocates of the new law say.

    Conservatives say that the CBO numbers prove that the health-care law will be a drag on the economy. Moreover, they say, it makes no sense to give people subsidies to encourage them to quit their jobs.

    “What the White House wants you to think is, if a person chooses to make less income, they must be doing something that makes them better off,” said former Congressional Budget Office director Douglas Holtz-Eakin, now president of the American Action Forum, a conservative policy group. “What conservatives would have you ask is, is it an appropriate use of someone else’s money to put you in that position to choose?”

    The CBO acknowledged that there could be some positive economic impacts from unleashing people from their jobs but concluded that there was no good way to quantify that, and therefore left the number out.

    Eddie Gonzalez-Novoa, 44, now living in Houston, last year left a full-time job in New York making $88,000 a year plus benefits to help his nephew, a cancer survivor, start a social media and video-gaming site for other teens with the disease.

    The Washington Post found Gonzalez-Novoa and Lower through Families USA, a health advocacy group that supports the health-care law and maintains a database of people who have benefited from it.

    Uneasy about going uninsured, Gonzalez-Novoa bought a low-cost, bare-bones private health plan last year, he said. But it did not cover his cholesterol medications, which cost $200 a month. It did not pay for the colonoscopy he needed because of a family history. He thought he would soon have to find another full-time job that offered better health insurance.

    “I’d like to say that nothing would have stopped me, that I was mission-driven to this family commitment,” Gonzalez-Novoa said. But the lack of quality coverage, he said, “was really starting to wear on me mentally and physically.” He said that he thought he had about six months before he would have had to start job hunting again.

    Then he discovered that his income was low enough to get a government subsidy to buy insurance under the health-care law. The plan, which costs about $170 a month, better met his needs and gave him carte blanche to stay at his nephew’s start-up indefinitely, he said — a job he is doing virtually for free.

    Lower acknowledged that it has been harder to make ends meet without a steady paycheck. But she said there is no way to quantify the peace of mind she feels, now that she isn’t tethered to a job she hates and can help her daughter, a single mother who works full time, with child care.

    Lower expected to miss her job. “It was definitely a scary move to make,” she said. “I’m a person who likes routine, and there definitely was an adjustment period.”

    But upon reflection, she said, “I’ve adjusted well.”

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/nation...5fb_story.html
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  2. #2
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    12.17.17 @ 09:14 AM
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    Instead of stories like this I wish the press would do actual investigative stories that look into things like the Labour participation rate in America vs other western nations. We get "free" health care here and yet most people continue to work. To me the story above sounds like someone who just chose to retire early, pretty common stuff.
    Last edited by It's Mike; 02.09.14 at 04:12 PM.

  3. #3
    Atomic Punk LLFHS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    Instead of stories like this I wish the press would do actual investigative stories that look into things like the Labour participation rate in America vs other western nations. We get "free" health care here and yet most people continue to work. To me the story above sounds like someone who just chose to retire early, pretty common stuff.
    It is somehow a bad thing to some that people are leavng jobs they once clung to out of fear of not having health care. I dont get it myself (provided that the real motive is simply to hate Obamacare, but that would be petty and thus absurd). Would this not mean that a surplus of job openings would appear, and in turn be filled by those seeking them?

    So, it SOUNDS like the ACA just freed up some jobs.

    But it's bad. Paul Ryan said so.
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  4. #4
    Hang 'Em High sickman's Avatar
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    12.16.17 @ 02:06 PM
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    Okay, so she quit her job but from what I understand you have to make next to nothing to qualify for a subsidy. What is she doing for an income? How much did her lifestyle have to change? Is this just an example of the other side of the coin, someone who is so obsessed with the Liberal agenda and the idea of obamacare. If she can do it that's great, but on the other hand now the American taxpayer is covering a big part of her healthcare costs through this subsidy even though she could have paid for it herself if she kept a full time job.

  5. #5
    Atomic Punk
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    12.04.17 @ 04:15 PM
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    I think the other point that needs to be emphasised here is that Ms Lower is basically providing full-time childcare for her daughter's offspring. There is every possibility (certainly if it's anything like the situation we have in the UK) that had she not been able to do so, then her daughter may well have had to scale back her own hours, or stop working altogether, as childcare is a HUGE drain on one's income. Often, it simply doesn't make financial sense to go to work and pay for a full-time nanny / child-minder, or nursery place, and a parent may well be forced to give up work (at least temporarily) as a consequence.

    At least in this situation, therefore, there have still been benefits to the economy - presumably the daughter is not claiming any assistance, and is, instead, paying income tax.
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  6. #6
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dibblekins View Post
    I think the other point that needs to be emphasised here is that Ms Lower is basically providing full-time childcare for her daughter's offspring. There is every possibility (certainly if it's anything like the situation we have in the UK) that had she not been able to do so, then her daughter may well have had to scale back her own hours, or stop working altogether, as childcare is a HUGE drain on one's income. Often, it simply doesn't make financial sense to go to work and pay for a full-time nanny / child-minder, or nursery place, and a parent may well be forced to give up work (at least temporarily) as a consequence.

    At least in this situation, therefore, there have still been benefits to the economy - presumably the daughter is not claiming any assistance, and is, instead, paying income tax.
    I think that whoever wrote the story is really making this about something that it's not. This isn't a story about someone who quit a job she liked to take advantage of the new health care law. This is a story of someone who had a job she loved and was changed to a job she hated so she quit. And due to the new law she's not screwed not having health care. I don't see this as a bad thing but I guess if you really want to rip on Obama you'll make this another terrible aspect of the law.

    Having your primary health care coverage directly tied to your employer is a stupid, stupid, stupid idea.

  7. #7
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    In this age of the internet and non-accountability, it infuriates me how easily those with an agenda can appropriate a perfectly harmless story, skew it in a thoroughly outrageous fashion, disseminate it to a mass-audience - and get approbation for it!

    It's just as well there are people like us, who can see through, and expose their nonsense, eh?
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  8. #8
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dibblekins View Post
    In this age of the internet and non-accountability, it infuriates me how easily those with an agenda can appropriate a perfectly harmless story, skew it in a thoroughly outrageous fashion, disseminate it to a mass-audience - and get approbation for it!

    It's just as well there are people like us, who can see through, and expose their nonsense, eh?
    there's something to be said for the over the top "we're not objective" media age we live in. A couple of decades ago there was still bias but it was more hidden. Nowadays it's just right up front. This is good for those who are capable of taking that into account when reading the story. The problem is that most people are either (1) stupid or (2) just don't care enough about world events to understand the perspective of the writer. They assume that a writer is objective, that's a huge mistake these days. I'm convinced if the the current president (doesn't matter if he's a Repulican or a Democrat) saves the lives of people from a burning building that one half of the press will find a way to make him look like a dick.

    Politics has become sport and it's sad. And it's that way all over the West. If a Liberal comes up with an idea, the right hates it. If the right comes up with the exact same idea, the liberals hate it. We see it here all the time. Our current federal conservative govt has run a decade worth of annual deficits, our provincial liberals have done the same. Those in the press from the right spend night after night destroying the Liberals and once a month they'll lightly criticize the Federal conservatives. Those in the press from the left do the opposite.

  9. #9
    Hang 'Em High sickman's Avatar
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    12.16.17 @ 02:06 PM
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    We should be allowed to buy a health plan like we do life insurance. Buy a long term or a whole life plan at birth. At least that will get rid of the "per-existing" illness problem, unless of course you were born with some type of in-normality.

  10. #10
    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
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    12.17.17 @ 07:17 AM
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    Ok, maybe I am a prick, but let me ask the question.

    Why SHOULDN'T she have to work to be able to BUY health insurance?

    I got up at 5:00 am today to go to work to provide for my family, why should other able bodied Americans just be able to say "fuck it, I can get by on welfare, food stamps, work under the table for my daughter babysitting her kids, and Obamacare to take care of financial needs".

    I know, it's not a rich life she is living, and maybe that is the answer, but to me, everyone in this seems to keep talking about fairness.

    So answer, why is this fair? Why am I getting my ass up early in the morning to go to work, and now pay MORE taxes than I ever did before, just so Polly Lower doesn't have to go to work anymore?

    I am sure the answer is that I am an elitist white guy and I should be happy to do it.

    And I am...to a point. The point being that able bodied Americans are not having to work because Uncle Sam is taking care of them, and taking money out of my pocket to do so.

    At least that is how I see it, but I am very open minded to the fact that I can be shown that how I feel is in error.
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  11. #11
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Dreidel View Post
    Ok, maybe I am a prick, but let me ask the question.

    Why SHOULDN'T she have to work to be able to BUY health insurance?

    I got up at 5:00 am today to go to work to provide for my family, why should other able bodied Americans just be able to say "fuck it, I can get by on welfare, food stamps, work under the table for my daughter babysitting her kids, and Obamacare to take care of financial needs".

    I know, it's not a rich life she is living, and maybe that is the answer, but to me, everyone in this seems to keep talking about fairness.

    So answer, why is this fair? Why am I getting my ass up early in the morning to go to work, and now pay MORE taxes than I ever did before, just so Polly Lower doesn't have to go to work anymore?

    I am sure the answer is that I am an elitist white guy and I should be happy to do it.

    And I am...to a point. The point being that able bodied Americans are not having to work because Uncle Sam is taking care of them, and taking money out of my pocket to do so.

    At least that is how I see it, but I am very open minded to the fact that I can be shown that how I feel is in error.
    you're not wrong about this and it's bad policy. The intention of something like universal health care (and the insurance company/democrat abortion of a policy you guys implemented) is to allow people to not have to worry about health care costs in their day to day lives. They can change jobs without having to worry about going bankrupt if something bad happens to them. It's intention wasn't to allow people to quit and live off the system.

    And the reason you're getting up early in the morning isn't to pay for Polly's health care. It's so you can be an elitist white guy.

  12. #12
    Atomic Punk edwardv's Avatar
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    12.16.17 @ 11:32 PM
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    Even if I qualified for a subsidy on ACA which I don't because I make too much I would still not have enough just from that to retire yet. Now after I hit those magical years here in the USA where I can tap into annuities, SS,IRAs,and 401ks etc, then it would certainly help me to make LESS money and get a subsidy on health insurance til medicare at 65 which I may end up doing in a few years. I don't like this law but you have to play the hand that is dealt to you.
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  13. #13
    Atomic Punk bsbll4's Avatar
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    Given the nature of our budget deficit and the ACA's impact on it, anything that encourages people to stop paying incomes taxes, and instead encourages them to redeem subsidies, is a bad idea.

    We are not at a point where we should be reducing the number of people providing for those that aren't. I think everyone can get behind giving subsidies to people that can't work, but if someone willingly chooses not to work, why should they get public subsidies?
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

  14. #14
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    12.16.17 @ 09:35 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Dreidel View Post
    Ok, maybe I am a prick, but let me ask the question.

    Why SHOULDN'T she have to work to be able to BUY health insurance?

    I got up at 5:00 am today to go to work to provide for my family, why should other able bodied Americans just be able to say "fuck it, I can get by on welfare, food stamps, work under the table for my daughter babysitting her kids, and Obamacare to take care of financial needs".

    I know, it's not a rich life she is living, and maybe that is the answer, but to me, everyone in this seems to keep talking about fairness.

    So answer, why is this fair? Why am I getting my ass up early in the morning to go to work, and now pay MORE taxes than I ever did before, just so Polly Lower doesn't have to go to work anymore?

    I am sure the answer is that I am an elitist white guy and I should be happy to do it.

    And I am...to a point. The point being that able bodied Americans are not having to work because Uncle Sam is taking care of them, and taking money out of my pocket to do so.At least that is how I see it, but I am very open minded to the fact that I can be shown that how I feel is in error.
    Because that it the liberal mindset and why they suck. This country would never have been as great as it was if todays liberal were around at the turn of the century (1900).
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    Hang 'Em High sickman's Avatar
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    It would be interesting to know what the premium would have been without the subsidy. In essence the only way she could afford a health plan through obamacare was to quit her job. That's a real nice piece of legislation right there. 2 options, keep your job and pay through the nose for healthcare, or quit your job and have the American Tax Payer pick up a majority of the tab.

 

 

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