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  1. #1
    Good Enough extreme red roth's Avatar
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    06.16.17 @ 09:53 AM
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    Default HB, MWM, CGTSNM begat VHIII

    I read a lot of people's thoughts about their love for the direction Van Halen was going in with Humans Being, MWM, CGTSNM (and even some of the songs on Balance). I hear the term "dark" used a lot, presumably pointing to the tone and lack of sing-a-long melodies and such.

    I was listening to Van Halen III this morning. I do this about once a year to see if there is something I am missing. As always, I think there is some value to Without You, Fire in the Hole, and Once...but today I was specifically listening to From Afar.

    If you listen to this song, it's HB, MWM, CGTSNM's cousin.

    So, my only point is, when you say you like the direction they were going in, then there has to be some acceptance that the direction was what Van Halen III became.

    Nearly everyone considers this album to be a turd, but if I were Eddie and I heard that, I'd be like, I just progressed from where we were at the time.

    As a sidebar, I think what makes ADKOT so intriguing is the way it sort of sounds like different Van Halen eras. I know there are reworked unreleased tunes on there which pushes this theory, but even the stuff that wasn't based on all demos...it just sounds like Ed drew inspiration from all the different eras for ADKOT...a reason we probably all liked it.

    With Van Halen III, he was stuck in one frame of mind. Another example would be something I brought up in another thread. Feelin' and A Year To the Day could be cousins, or even brothers...well step brothers...
    The Barn Burned Down, Now I can See the Moon

  2. #2
    Good Enough right-here-i-say's Avatar
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    12.17.17 @ 03:48 PM
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    Here we go again...

    If Ted produced 3, and Dave sang (and helped write) on it, it would be awesome.

    Instead, it was overproduced, very repetitive, Gary couldn't write well, and screamed the whole time instead of actually singing.
    Right here I say....

  3. #3
    Good Enough extreme red roth's Avatar
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    06.16.17 @ 09:53 AM
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    Default

    Yep, I completely agree that the album blows overall.

    What I am saying is that it's evident that it was a continuation of the direction they were going in, so we shouldn't be surprised. Make sense?
    The Barn Burned Down, Now I can See the Moon

  4. #4
    Sinner's Swing! mikehunt5150's Avatar
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    12.16.17 @ 05:41 AM
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    I think the direction and concept was good but the songs themselves were really.....
    WHAT IS UNDERSTOOD NEED NOT BE DISCUSSED

  5. #5
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    02.17.16 @ 10:54 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by extreme red roth View Post
    I read a lot of people's thoughts about their love for the direction Van Halen was going in with Humans Being, MWM, CGTSNM (and even some of the songs on Balance). I hear the term "dark" used a lot, presumably pointing to the tone and lack of sing-a-long melodies and such.

    I was listening to Van Halen III this morning. I do this about once a year to see if there is something I am missing. As always, I think there is some value to Without You, Fire in the Hole, and Once...but today I was specifically listening to From Afar.

    If you listen to this song, it's HB, MWM, CGTSNM's cousin.

    So, my only point is, when you say you like the direction they were going in, then there has to be some acceptance that the direction was what Van Halen III became.

    Nearly everyone considers this album to be a turd, but if I were Eddie and I heard that, I'd be like, I just progressed from where we were at the time.

    As a sidebar, I think what makes ADKOT so intriguing is the way it sort of sounds like different Van Halen eras. I know there are reworked unreleased tunes on there which pushes this theory, but even the stuff that wasn't based on all demos...it just sounds like Ed drew inspiration from all the different eras for ADKOT...a reason we probably all liked it.

    With Van Halen III, he was stuck in one frame of mind. Another example would be something I brought up in another thread. Feelin' and A Year To the Day could be cousins, or even brothers...well step brothers...
    I like III. Maybe production wise it could be better, but love the different sounds on it. From Aafar is a brilliant song with a superb guitarsolo

  6. #6
    Sinner's Swing! DFVH5150's Avatar
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    12.17.17 @ 10:06 PM
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    I said it before, and I'll say it again. If VH3:

    -had Mike singing more background vox throughout the album
    -had the band kick in during the chorus of "Once" like Tribe Of Judah did live (or even just the refrain chorus at the end)
    -included "TWILY" but Gary sang (not screamed) the lyrics and the refrain chorus was the actual chorus--keep "Josephina" too, they had the space
    -"Dirty Water Dog" was a little harder
    -the production was better sonically

    It would have made a world of difference.

    Eddie pushed his luck with the whole lightning striking 3x thing.

    No hard rock band of their popularity in history made it big with 2 lead singers (except AC/DC which was a totally different situation). Survivor was the only one, except they were 1/100 as popular so that doesn't count. Trying it a third time...don't fuck with the background vox signature sound and have that many non-typical Van Halen songs. Nothing wrong with the experimental songs--I think it's great. But, they overdid it. You want to experiment with "How Many Say I?" Fine, but at least have "Once" rock. Keep the Peter Gabriel sound ya wanted during the verses but have the choruses crank. Would've been one of their best songs.

    I should've been their producer for that album. I'm tellin' ya...

    Still love the Tres either way.
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    VAN HALEN WITH DAVE: 9x
    VAN HALEN WITH SAMMY: 8x
    VAN HALEN WITH GARY: 5x
    CHICKENFOOT/THE CIRCLE: 6x
    DAVE SOLO: 13x
    SAMMY SOLO: 15x (including MIKE/MONTROSE)
    GARY/EXTREME/TRIBE OF JUDAH/HURTSMILE: 7x
    CABO WABO CANTINA: 1x
    MET: Sammy 1x, Dave almost 1x, Gary 2x

  7. #7
    Sinner's Swing! DFVH5150's Avatar
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    12.17.17 @ 10:06 PM
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    ...and I totally agree with how great they sounded during Balance and BOVI versus 3. But it had the potential.

    That is interesting how musically VH could do no wrong in '96. Wow they sounded amazing with everything they did that year, whichever singer.
    Dave
    VH FOREVER!!!!!!!

    Stats:
    BECAME FAN/PSYCHO: 12/91
    VAN HALEN WITH DAVE: 9x
    VAN HALEN WITH SAMMY: 8x
    VAN HALEN WITH GARY: 5x
    CHICKENFOOT/THE CIRCLE: 6x
    DAVE SOLO: 13x
    SAMMY SOLO: 15x (including MIKE/MONTROSE)
    GARY/EXTREME/TRIBE OF JUDAH/HURTSMILE: 7x
    CABO WABO CANTINA: 1x
    MET: Sammy 1x, Dave almost 1x, Gary 2x

  8. #8
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    12.12.17 @ 06:31 AM
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    There are plenty of bands that made it with 2 singers. Or more. Black Sabbath, Deep Purple...

    A third singer could've worked for VH if 1) they hadn't taunted us with Dave first and then lied about it, and 2) they actually made a good choice. When I heard it was Gary, my heart sank. I knew it would suck. No offense to the guy, but he was always a little too Jesus Christ Superstar or something. I would have loved to have heard them with Cornell. I get a braingasm imagining how that might've sounded.
    Last edited by E-roc; 11.28.13 at 05:41 AM.

  9. #9
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    05.16.15 @ 10:42 AM
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    If Sammy had remained with the band, he would have nixed the dogshit that was VHIII. The next album would have continued down the dark riff trail with more serious lyrics like The Seventh Seal, Don't Tell Me, and Feelin'.

  10. #10
    Atomic Punk
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    06.25.15 @ 09:06 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-roc View Post
    There are plenty of bands that made it with 2 singers. Or more. Black Sabbath, Deep Purple...
    It's not like these bands were really any good with any singer beyond the second. I don't consider Coverdale the third singer of DP since Rod Evans was barely even there. Hard to get too technical when the guy was the for a year in an almost-50-year history.
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  11. #11
    Sinner's Swing! DFVH5150's Avatar
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    12.17.17 @ 10:06 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-roc View Post
    There are plenty of bands that made it with 2 singers. Or more. Black Sabbath, Deep Purple....
    Yeah, but Dio and Coverdale were only in those bands for a couple of years each, and they weren't close to as big as they were with the Ozzy and Gillan. Sammy was, and for a whole decade.
    Dave
    VH FOREVER!!!!!!!

    Stats:
    BECAME FAN/PSYCHO: 12/91
    VAN HALEN WITH DAVE: 9x
    VAN HALEN WITH SAMMY: 8x
    VAN HALEN WITH GARY: 5x
    CHICKENFOOT/THE CIRCLE: 6x
    DAVE SOLO: 13x
    SAMMY SOLO: 15x (including MIKE/MONTROSE)
    GARY/EXTREME/TRIBE OF JUDAH/HURTSMILE: 7x
    CABO WABO CANTINA: 1x
    MET: Sammy 1x, Dave almost 1x, Gary 2x

  12. #12
    Atomic Punk Raldo's Avatar
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    12.17.17 @ 05:53 PM
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    It was nice to hear the 'III' songs live because they sounded so much better.
    Would have been interesting if they had a different producer and all the other things mentioned in this post. I think 'III' could've been a lot better and more accepted.
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  13. #13
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    12.12.17 @ 06:31 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by DFVH5150 View Post
    Yeah, but Dio and Coverdale were only in those bands for a couple of years each, and they weren't close to as big as they were with the Ozzy and Gillan. Sammy was, and for a whole decade.
    Never mind all that, where's my Corn Halen?

  14. #14
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    05.16.15 @ 10:42 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raldo View Post
    It was nice to hear the 'III' songs live because they sounded so much better.
    Would have been interesting if they had a different producer and all the other things mentioned in this post. I think 'III' could've been a lot better and more accepted.
    VHIII sucked, plain and simple. Yes, Ed's riffs sounded good live, but VH with Gary sucked--no offense to Gary.

  15. #15
    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
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    12.17.17 @ 03:33 PM
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    There is a difference between riffing and noodling.

    Ed entered into Steve Vai "wanking" territory with III. I am sure some loved it, I thought it was technically impressive and sounded like shit.

    The songs sucked, the vocals sucked, the production sucked, and there are about ZERO hooks in the whole damn album, when a VH album is usually filled to the brim with them.
    Taylor Swift is nice to look at. Adele can sing.

    Emperor Brett - "I can't believe you guys are analyzing song-by-song Van Halen III? What next, analyzing the script of Stroker Ace looking for some shred of Citizen Kane?"

    David Lee Roth did the impossible. He made Van Halen better. Deal with it!

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