Follow us on...
Follow us on Twitter Follow us on Facebook Watch us on YouTube
Register
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 24
  1. #1
    Atomic Punk
    Join Date
    01.29.02
    Age
    49
    Location
    somewhere over the rainbow
    Posts
    22,946
    Last Online

    12.11.17 @ 04:37 PM
    Likes
    842
    Liked 1,229 Times in 448 Posts

    Default Why French Kids Don't Have ADHD

    In the United States, at least 9% of school-aged children have been diagnosed with ADHD, and are taking pharmaceutical medications. In France, the percentage of kids diagnosed and medicated for ADHD is less than .5%. How come the epidemic of ADHD—which has become firmly established in the United States—has almost completely passed over children in France?

    Is ADHD a biological-neurological disorder? Surprisingly, the answer to this question depends on whether you live in France or in the United States. In the United States, child psychiatrists consider ADHD to be a biological disorder with biological causes. The preferred treatment is also biological--psycho stimulant medications such as Ritalin and Adderall.

    French child psychiatrists, on the other hand, view ADHD as a medical condition that has psycho-social and situational causes. Instead of treating children's focusing and behavioral problems with drugs, French doctors prefer to look for the underlying issue that is causing the child distress—not in the child's brain but in the child's social context. They then choose to treat the underlying social context problem with psychotherapy or family counseling. This is a very different way of seeing things from the American tendency to attribute all symptoms to a biological dysfunction such as a chemical imbalance in the child's brain.

    French child psychiatrists don't use the same system of classification of childhood emotional problems as American psychiatrists. They do not use the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders or DSM. According to Sociologist Manuel Vallee, the French Federation of Psychiatry developed an alternative classification system as a resistance to the influence of the DSM-3. This alternative was the CFTMEA (Classification Française des Troubles Mentaux de L'Enfant et de L'Adolescent), first released in 1983, and updated in 1988 and 2000. The focus of CFTMEA is on identifying and addressing the underlying psychosocial causes of children's symptoms, not on finding the best pharmacological bandaids with which to mask symptoms.

    To the extent that French clinicians are successful at finding and repairing what has gone awry in the child's social context, fewer children qualify for the ADHD diagnosis. Moreover, the definition of ADHD is not as broad as in the American system, which, in my view, tends to "pathologize" much of what is normal childhood behavior. The DSM specifically does not consider underlying causes. It thus leads clinicians to give the ADHD diagnosis to a much larger number of symptomatic children, while also encouraging them to treat those children with pharmaceuticals.

    The French holistic, psychosocial approach also allows for considering nutritional causes for ADHD-type symptoms—specifically the fact that the behavior of some children is worsened after eating foods with artificial colors, certain preservatives, and/or allergens. Clinicians who work with troubled children in this country—not to mention parents of many ADHD kids—are well aware that dietary interventions can sometimes help a child's problem. In the United States, the strict focus on pharmaceutical treatment of ADHD, however, encourages clinicians to ignore the influence of dietary factors on children's behavior.

    And then, of course, there are the vastly different philosophies of child-rearing in the United States and France. These divergent philosophies could account for why French children are generally better-behaved than their American counterparts. Pamela Druckerman highlights the divergent parenting styles in her recent book, Bringing up Bébé. I believe her insights are relevant to a discussion of why French children are not diagnosed with ADHD in anything like the numbers we are seeing in the United States.

    From the time their children are born, French parents provide them with a firm cadre—the word means "frame" or "structure." Children are not allowed, for example, to snack whenever they want. Mealtimes are at four specific times of the day. French children learn to wait patiently for meals, rather than eating snack foods whenever they feel like it. French babies, too, are expected to conform to limits set by parents and not by their crying selves. French parents let their babies "cry it out" if they are not sleeping through the night at the age of four months.

    French parents, Druckerman observes, love their children just as much as American parents. They give them piano lessons, take them to sports practice, and encourage them to make the most of their talents. But French parents have a different philosophy of discipline. Consistently enforced limits, in the French view, make children feel safe and secure. Clear limits, they believe, actually make a child feel happier and safer—something that is congruent with my own experience as both a therapist and a parent. Finally, French parents believe that hearing the word "no" rescues children from the "tyranny of their own desires." And spanking, when used judiciously, is not considered child abuse in France. (Author's note: I am not personally in favor of spanking children).

    As a therapist who works with children, it makes perfect sense to me that French children don't need medications to control their behavior because they learn self-control early in their lives. The children grow up in families in which the rules are well-understood, and a clear family hierarchy is firmly in place. In French families, as Druckerman describes them, parents are firmly in charge of their kids—instead of the American family style, in which the situation is all too often vice versa.

    Copyright © Marilyn Wedge, Ph.D.

    http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...dont-have-adhd
    "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.” -- Gen. George S. Patton

  2. #2
    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
    Join Date
    01.10.05
    Age
    47
    Location
    Kate Upton's Closet
    Posts
    37,899
    Favorite VH Album

    Alex, Dave, Ed and Mike
    Favorite VH Song

    The songs with Ed on them
    Last Online

    12.14.17 @ 10:37 AM
    Likes
    3,508
    Liked 18,145 Times in 8,966 Posts

    Default

    Fuck that shit, we have pharmaceutical companies that need to make their 4th quarter estimates.

    How are they going to accomplish that unless we medicate the fuck out of a bunch of kids? Huh?
    Taylor Swift is nice to look at. Adele can sing.

    Emperor Brett - "I can't believe you guys are analyzing song-by-song Van Halen III? What next, analyzing the script of Stroker Ace looking for some shred of Citizen Kane?"

    David Lee Roth did the impossible. He made Van Halen better. Deal with it!

    Preferred pronouns: he/him/his

    Hurricane Halen - Let's all gingery touch our sword tips!!!

    DONATE TO THE LINKS YA CHEAP BASTARDS!!!!

  3. #3
    Atomic Punk Raldo's Avatar
    Join Date
    01.11.00
    Location
    Cromwell, CT USA
    Posts
    17,191
    Favorite VH Song

    Ain't Talkin' 'Bout Love
    Last Online

    12.14.17 @ 10:24 AM
    Likes
    1,829
    Liked 1,481 Times in 903 Posts

    Default

    Interesting.
    Remember the Heroes - 9/11/01

    In 2012, the phoenix has risen!!

    "High speed, low drag."

    "Look at all the people here tonight!!!" - 10/5/07, 5/20/08 Mohegan Sun

    Congratulations to Van Halen as part of the Class of 2007 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame!

    Cinco de Cabo @ Foxwoods: "A giant party with live music" - S. Hagar

    got tequila?

    http://keepitaliveforever.com

  4. #4
    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    06.05.03
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    13,983
    Last Online

    12.14.17 @ 12:15 PM
    Likes
    815
    Liked 3,115 Times in 1,826 Posts


    Premium Member

    Default

    One thing these things never take into account is how heterogeneous the US is in comparison to most countries. Sure, there are subcultures and an amount of multi-culturalism in France. But the US is vastly different in this area than most other countries.

    IF we're talking about societal issues and norms, those are much easier to deal with in more homogeneous countries than in the US. If we're talking about the genetic traits of ADHD, that is also something that is complicated in heterogeneous countries, so it's not surprising that there would be a hire rate of this in the US. From what I understand, there are many types of ADHD and there are many genetic markers for these, so a country with lots and lots of different genetic make ups would, it seems to me, result in a higher chance of an ADHD child.

    IF it is a social issue, I'd have to understand more of what is happening in France in these described issues, but all things being equal a typically more homogeneous country tends to "get along" better.

  5. #5
    carpe damn diem billy007's Avatar
    Join Date
    04.19.00
    Age
    54
    Location
    On the wild card line...
    Posts
    28,676
    Favorite VH Song

    "Dance The Night Away"
    Last Online

    12.14.17 @ 01:07 PM
    Likes
    1,046
    Liked 1,348 Times in 925 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Dreidel View Post
    Fuck that shit, we have pharmaceutical companies that need to make their 4th quarter estimates.

    How are they going to accomplish that unless we medicate the fuck out of a bunch of kids? Huh?
    you mean medicate the fuck out of everyone, including the kids!

  6. #6
    Sinner's Swing! graeme's Avatar
    Join Date
    01.27.03
    Age
    10
    Location
    Dusseldorf, Germany.
    Posts
    3,946
    Favorite VH Album

    They're all shit
    Last Online

    11.19.17 @ 09:41 AM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 34 Times in 20 Posts

    Default

    Not meaning to point fingers, but the entire world is astonished at the amount of drugs American society takes for even the slightest problem.

    Got a little sniffle? Drug it.
    Kid got over excited? Drug him.
    Feeling under the weather? Drugs.
    A little blue, bless you? Take some drugs.

    You get my point. Problem is, most of these legal highs/emotional dampers/development inhibitors, cause more problems than good. How does a five year old develop emotionally when their emotions are being reduced by this kind of shit? As someone stated above, it's a money making scheme.

    Don't get me wrong, plenty drink a bit or have a smoke after a long day,and we know they aren't great for us, but these other things are prescribed as being medicine. By professionals. On TV. And discussed as being necessary.

    Utter bullshit. It's a business, and unfortunately, the American public has fallen for this con, hook, line and sinker.

    Just like all the, illegal in most other countries, poisonous, mood enhancing crap that is stuffed into US foods that is not advertised. Cancer is on the rise in so many western countries, especially the states, yet consumption of all the things we've been told cause cancer (cigs, drink, chemicals in car fumes etc) are far lower than they were.

    Why? Bullshit "helpful pharmaceutical" drugs and seriously crap, dangerous processed food.

    Hate cancer? Never let your kids take that shit.

    Waiting for my father to die from pancreatic cancer, so I have a vested interest in this topic. Pretty healthy guy until he moved to America. I'm a smart guy, so I don't write this off as causality, but the last time I was in California, I gained 15 pounds in one month, yet ate the same amount. Felt like shit from the food I was eating.

    But, lest I should sound accusatory, when I was a kid in the UK, there were two kids in my class of 35 who had asthma. I hear the average now is near twenty per cent.

    Rant over. Fuck it.
    A man could lose himself in a country like this.

    My blog at http://tollins.blogspot.de/

  7. #7
    Gird your loins Daisy Hill's Avatar
    Join Date
    04.17.08
    Age
    57
    Location
    Goose Poop, Ohio
    Posts
    13,058
    Favorite VH Album

    Fair Warning
    Favorite VH Song

    Panama
    Last Online

    12.14.17 @ 09:34 AM
    Likes
    1,811
    Liked 2,238 Times in 1,356 Posts

    Default

    no drug will ever replace counselors skilled in behaviour modification, teachers skilled in leading a class, and attentive parents who are supported in their efforts to work on the behavioural aspects of adhd

    as someone who raised a kid who needed medication,I can tell you what a Godsend this BRIDGE of medication is

    but I always looked at it as a bridge.....a tool get over a big obstacle.....but I always knew there had to be an off ramp on that bridge...can't use that stuff forever.

    problem is when a bridge becomes a crutch....you just can't let that happen to your kids

    survivor of the Bowling Green Massacre 9-3-2016 BGSU 10 OSU 77

    She was warned. She was given an explanation. Nevertheless, she persisted.

  8. #8
    Atomic Punk Raldo's Avatar
    Join Date
    01.11.00
    Location
    Cromwell, CT USA
    Posts
    17,191
    Favorite VH Song

    Ain't Talkin' 'Bout Love
    Last Online

    12.14.17 @ 10:24 AM
    Likes
    1,829
    Liked 1,481 Times in 903 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Daisy Hill View Post
    no drug will ever replace counselors skilled in behaviour modification, teachers skilled in leading a class, and attentive parents who are supported in their efforts to work on the behavioural aspects of adhd

    as someone who raised a kid who needed medication,I can tell you what a Godsend this BRIDGE of medication is

    but I always looked at it as a bridge.....a tool get over a big obstacle.....but I always knew there had to be an off ramp on that bridge...can't use that stuff forever.

    problem is when a bridge becomes a crutch....you just can't let that happen to your kids
    Well said!!
    Remember the Heroes - 9/11/01

    In 2012, the phoenix has risen!!

    "High speed, low drag."

    "Look at all the people here tonight!!!" - 10/5/07, 5/20/08 Mohegan Sun

    Congratulations to Van Halen as part of the Class of 2007 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame!

    Cinco de Cabo @ Foxwoods: "A giant party with live music" - S. Hagar

    got tequila?

    http://keepitaliveforever.com

  9. #9
    Atomic Punk edwardv's Avatar
    Join Date
    12.13.01
    Age
    59
    Location
    hanover pennsylvania
    Posts
    10,037
    Favorite VH Album

    diver down
    Favorite VH Song

    drop dead legs
    Last Online

    12.14.17 @ 12:51 PM
    Likes
    4,484
    Liked 2,386 Times in 1,488 Posts


    Premium Member

    Default

    If you have ever had to listen to a brainwashed drug rep from Phizer or Merck that's why we are the leader in legal drug abuse too even for our pets. Stop by a pharmaceutical show and walk around like your a doc/medical person its amazing!
    Last edited by edwardv; 11.12.13 at 04:22 PM.
    EVH 1979: Well, actually it's not much of a vacation, because we run everything ourselves. We design our own album cover, we have to be in the office every day to sign checks - the whole corporation revolves around us. Nothing can be done without our approval. We even have photo approval.

  10. #10
    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    06.05.03
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    13,983
    Last Online

    12.14.17 @ 12:15 PM
    Likes
    815
    Liked 3,115 Times in 1,826 Posts


    Premium Member

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by graeme View Post
    Not meaning to point fingers, but the entire world is astonished at the amount of drugs American society takes for even the slightest problem.

    Got a little sniffle? Drug it.
    Kid got over excited? Drug him.
    Feeling under the weather? Drugs.
    A little blue, bless you? Take some drugs.

    You get my point. Problem is, most of these legal highs/emotional dampers/development inhibitors, cause more problems than good. How does a five year old develop emotionally when their emotions are being reduced by this kind of shit? As someone stated above, it's a money making scheme.

    Don't get me wrong, plenty drink a bit or have a smoke after a long day,and we know they aren't great for us, but these other things are prescribed as being medicine. By professionals. On TV. And discussed as being necessary.

    Utter bullshit. It's a business, and unfortunately, the American public has fallen for this con, hook, line and sinker.

    Just like all the, illegal in most other countries, poisonous, mood enhancing crap that is stuffed into US foods that is not advertised. Cancer is on the rise in so many western countries, especially the states, yet consumption of all the things we've been told cause cancer (cigs, drink, chemicals in car fumes etc) are far lower than they were.

    Why? Bullshit "helpful pharmaceutical" drugs and seriously crap, dangerous processed food.

    Hate cancer? Never let your kids take that shit.

    Waiting for my father to die from pancreatic cancer, so I have a vested interest in this topic. Pretty healthy guy until he moved to America. I'm a smart guy, so I don't write this off as causality, but the last time I was in California, I gained 15 pounds in one month, yet ate the same amount. Felt like shit from the food I was eating.

    But, lest I should sound accusatory, when I was a kid in the UK, there were two kids in my class of 35 who had asthma. I hear the average now is near twenty per cent.

    Rant over. Fuck it.
    I am very sorry about your father.

    But I have to say that the rest of this post is very, very wrong.

    Cancer overall has been on the decline in the US since 1990. Earlier this year, the Cancer Institute released the cancer rates. "The decline in overall cancer death rates continues a trend that began in the early 1990s. From 2000 through 2009, cancer death rates decreased by 1.8 percent per year among men and by 1.4 percent per year among women. Death rates among children up to 14 years of age also continued to decrease by 1.8 percent per year. During 2000 through 2009, death rates among men decreased for 10 of the 17 most common cancers...and increased for melanoma of the skin and cancers of the pancreas and liver. During the same 10-year period, death rates among women decreased for 15 of the 18 most common cancers...and increased for cancers of the pancreas, liver, and uterus." (http://www.cancer.gov/newscenter/new...3/ReportNation)

    It's also worth it to point out that life expectancy in the US has steadily increased by 13%, from 69.77 in 1960 to 78.64 in 2011. In the 1990s alone, pharmaceutical companies invented 400 treatments that replaced more expensive medical procedures, so living longer actually costs less. In 1996, it was shown that for every dollar more spent on pharmaceuticals, there was a $3.65 decrease in hospital expenditures. When the computer industry does this, they're innovators--it's progress. When the pharmaceutical industry does it, it's a "con" we've fallen for "hook, line, and sinker."

    Here's a perfect example. In 1977, stomach acid blocking drugs like Tagamet and Zantac were introduced. That year, surgeons performed over 97,000 operations for peptic ulcers. By 1993, the number of surgeries dropped to 19,000. During the same time, the US population increased by over 40 million. We didn't have fewer ulcers; drugs just made them easier and cheaper to treat.

    As far as the food goes, this is just superstition. All the evidence shows that organic food is no healthier than processed or treated food. International studies show that organic meats have higher rates of infection. "Are Organic Foods Safer or Healthier Than Conventional Alternatives?," published by researchers at the Stanford University in the Annals of Internal Medicine, looked at 240 different studies and found no health advantages to organic food.

  11. #11
    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
    Join Date
    01.10.05
    Age
    47
    Location
    Kate Upton's Closet
    Posts
    37,899
    Favorite VH Album

    Alex, Dave, Ed and Mike
    Favorite VH Song

    The songs with Ed on them
    Last Online

    12.14.17 @ 10:37 AM
    Likes
    3,508
    Liked 18,145 Times in 8,966 Posts

    Default

    As a kid who grew up on a farm, I laugh to myself whenever I hear the term "organic" when describing our food chain.

    None of it is organic, it is just a question of how processed the food is by the time it gets to your table.

    If you want organic food, you need to grow it in your back yard (without pesticides and herbicides!) or go hunt your own meat.

    Good luck with that.
    Taylor Swift is nice to look at. Adele can sing.

    Emperor Brett - "I can't believe you guys are analyzing song-by-song Van Halen III? What next, analyzing the script of Stroker Ace looking for some shred of Citizen Kane?"

    David Lee Roth did the impossible. He made Van Halen better. Deal with it!

    Preferred pronouns: he/him/his

    Hurricane Halen - Let's all gingery touch our sword tips!!!

    DONATE TO THE LINKS YA CHEAP BASTARDS!!!!

  12. #12
    Atomic Punk
    Join Date
    11.10.10
    Location
    North Wales, United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,172
    Favorite VH Album

    Love 'em all! (esp. F.U.C.K)
    Favorite VH Song

    The Dream Is Over
    Last Online

    12.04.17 @ 04:15 PM
    Likes
    1,571
    Liked 1,228 Times in 845 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post
    One thing these things never take into account is how heterogeneous the US is in comparison to most countries. Sure, there are subcultures and an amount of multi-culturalism in France. But the US is vastly different in this area than most other countries.

    IF we're talking about societal issues and norms, those are much easier to deal with in more homogeneous countries than in the US. If we're talking about the genetic traits of ADHD, that is also something that is complicated in heterogeneous countries, so it's not surprising that there would be a hire rate of this in the US. From what I understand, there are many types of ADHD and there are many genetic markers for these, so a country with lots and lots of different genetic make ups would, it seems to me, result in a higher chance of an ADHD child.

    IF it is a social issue, I'd have to understand more of what is happening in France in these described issues, but all things being equal a typically more homogeneous country tends to "get along" better.
    I couldn't disagree more with this assessment, for a number of reasons:

    Firstly, it is HIGHLY debatable that the US is more "heterogeneous" than any European nation...With free movement across Europe, I'd argue that there is more cultural and ethnic diversity in France, for example, than the USA. Not only do you have a melting pot of approximately 47 independent countries within the continent, France also has substantial African, Asian, and Turkish communities, amongst others. In fact, I'd argue that the US is more insular than France because of its geographical position, and legislation which makes it relatively difficult to gain entry to the country. As a result of this, immigrants to America tend to be second and third-generation, which should, generally speaking, make it more "homogeneous", as those citizens become increasingly integrated (you can argue how far that is happening 'til you're blue in the face!) All of that aside, however, an argument which posits ethnic diversity as an explanation for the rising numbers of children diagnosed with ADHD is, in my opinion, a red herring.

    There are other, far more plausible explanations for this worrying trend, some of which have already been mentioned in this thread, such as the profiteering of pharmaceutical companies. However, as was noted by the writer of the original article, I would suggest that in large part, it can be attributed to the huge differences in the cultural ethos and value system of the US (and the UK, which tends to model itself on the States, and distance itself from its European neighbours) compared to nations such as France, Sweden, et al. Visit any one of those countries, and you will see that family is at the forefront of how they conduct their lives. Go out in the evening, and you'll see families enjoying a meal together. It's virtually unheard of for parents to leave their kids with a babysitter whilst they go off partying into the wee, small hours.

    It's the same when it comes to work. In the US and the UK, parents are actively encouraged to conveniently 'forget' they have children. Long hours and short holidays are the norm'; needing time off to take the kids to the dentist or whatever is frowned upon; parental leave is scorned. Mothers give birth and often feel obliged to return to work within a couple of months, shunting their new-born babies off into day-care (for which there is financial assistance, certainly in this country), whilst other nations prefer to give public money to parents wishing to stay at home with their off-spring for extended periods. They do this because there is substantial research that demonstrates that one-to-one attention from a parent is by far the best start a child can have in life, as opposed to being in a large, anonymous group, with limited (and unfamiliar) staff. Is it any wonder, therefore, that our skewed priorities give rise to developmental and behavioural problems in our children?

    Now, before anyone accuses me of being 'unfeminist' in my views on this, let me tell you - I'm not. I believe in choice - and currently, we're not getting that. It's often financially impossible and socially unacceptable for a parent to stay at home with their offspring - and we are now seeing the unfortunate consequences of that situation.

    So, what about the medicinal issue? Again, this is part of the same problem. Both the US and the UK have become addicted to the notion of 'convenience' and the quick-fix. We don't have the time, energy, or inclination to look at the root causes of our kids' behaviour. It's far easier (and arguably less expensive, in the short-term) to simply medicate those with behavioural and / or mental health issues. Equally, we consider it too time-consuming and costly to train specialists who can focus on therapeutic rather than pharmaceutical solutions. And this doesn't just apply to our children, it's the same with adults. That isn't to say that medicine doesn't have a part to play - as Daisy mentioned, it can be crucial as a means to getting people into a mental state where they can accept and benefit from psychological therapies. However, too often, it is seen as the 'be all and end all' panacea - and it shouldn't be. It's like sticking a plaster (or Band-Aid) on an amputated limb, and hoping it will staunch the wound: it won't.

    Quite frankly, it's going to take a lot more than an increasing reliance on drugs for us to sort out the ever-increasing problems within our communities. We need to look at how other nations do things, and be willing to learn some lessons and make changes, instead of constantly thinking, 'we know best'. Because we quite evidently don't - the numbers speak for themselves.
    I'm FEMALE...Deal with it!

    "Whatever you do, wherever you go, there you are..." Edward Van Halen 1986

    "You spend the first part of your life trying to make your mark, and the second part just trying to cover up your tracks"... Weesfreewheelin, 2012

    "Life's too short to stuff a mushroom"... Shirley Conran, 1975

    "You turn if you want to...The LADY is NOT for turning!"...Margaret
    Thatcher, 1980


  13. #13
    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    06.05.03
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    13,983
    Last Online

    12.14.17 @ 12:15 PM
    Likes
    815
    Liked 3,115 Times in 1,826 Posts


    Premium Member

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dibblekins View Post
    I couldn't disagree more with this assessment, for a number of reasons:

    Firstly, it is HIGHLY debatable that the US is more "heterogeneous" than any European nation...With free movement across Europe, I'd argue that there is more cultural and ethnic diversity in France, for example, than the USA. Not only do you have a melting pot of approximately 47 independent countries within the continent, France also has substantial African, Asian, and Turkish communities, amongst others. In fact, I'd argue that the US is more insular than France because of its geographical position, and legislation which makes it relatively difficult to gain entry to the country. As a result of this, immigrants to America tend to be second and third-generation, which should, generally speaking, make it more "homogeneous", as those citizens become increasingly integrated (you can argue how far that is happening 'til you're blue in the face!) All of that aside, however, an argument which posits ethnic diversity as an explanation for the rising numbers of children diagnosed with ADHD is, in my opinion, a red herring.

    There are other, far more plausible explanations for this worrying trend, some of which have already been mentioned in this thread, such as the profiteering of pharmaceutical companies. However, as was noted by the writer of the original article, I would suggest that in large part, it can be attributed to the huge differences in the cultural ethos and value system of the US (and the UK, which tends to model itself on the States, and distance itself from its European neighbours) compared to nations such as France, Sweden, et al. Visit any one of those countries, and you will see that family is at the forefront of how they conduct their lives. Go out in the evening, and you'll see families enjoying a meal together. It's virtually unheard of for parents to leave their kids with a babysitter whilst they go off partying into the wee, small hours.

    It's the same when it comes to work. In the US and the UK, parents are actively encouraged to conveniently 'forget' they have children. Long hours and short holidays are the norm'; needing time off to take the kids to the dentist or whatever is frowned upon; parental leave is scorned. Mothers give birth and often feel obliged to return to work within a couple of months, shunting their new-born babies off into day-care (for which there is financial assistance, certainly in this country), whilst other nations prefer to give public money to parents wishing to stay at home with their off-spring for extended periods. They do this because there is substantial research that demonstrates that one-to-one attention from a parent is by far the best start a child can have in life, as opposed to being in a large, anonymous group, with limited (and unfamiliar) staff. Is it any wonder, therefore, that our skewed priorities give rise to developmental and behavioural problems in our children?

    Now, before anyone accuses me of being 'unfeminist' in my views on this, let me tell you - I'm not. I believe in choice - and currently, we're not getting that. It's often financially impossible and socially unacceptable for a parent to stay at home with their offspring - and we are now seeing the unfortunate consequences of that situation.

    So, what about the medicinal issue? Again, this is part of the same problem. Both the US and the UK have become addicted to the notion of 'convenience' and the quick-fix. We don't have the time, energy, or inclination to look at the root causes of our kids' behaviour. It's far easier (and arguably less expensive, in the short-term) to simply medicate those with behavioural and / or mental health issues. Equally, we consider it too time-consuming and costly to train specialists who can focus on therapeutic rather than pharmaceutical solutions. And this doesn't just apply to our children, it's the same with adults. That isn't to say that medicine doesn't have a part to play - as Daisy mentioned, it can be crucial as a means to getting people into a mental state where they can accept and benefit from psychological therapies. However, too often, it is seen as the 'be all and end all' panacea - and it shouldn't be. It's like sticking a plaster (or Band-Aid) on an amputated limb, and hoping it will staunch the wound: it won't.

    Quite frankly, it's going to take a lot more than an increasing reliance on drugs for us to sort out the ever-increasing problems within our communities. We need to look at how other nations do things, and be willing to learn some lessons and make changes, instead of constantly thinking, 'we know best'. Because we quite evidently don't - the numbers speak for themselves.
    There will always be problems measuring ethnic diversity, including what that means to people availability of data, etc. You also have to rely on how recently data has been compiled. That is 2002 and 2003.

    Anyway, I looked this up before I wrote my response. Harvard did a major, comprehensive study on cultural fragmentation in every country (http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.c...ract_id=319762). The idea is simple--if you were to randomly ask two different people from a country about their ethnicity and culture, what are the odds they would give you a different answer?

    The US is much my diverse than France according to this study. Zero is homogeneous and one is heterogeneous. The scores were split into three categories: Ethnicity, Language, and Religion.

    France scored .1032, .1221, and .4029, respectively. As for the US, .4901, .5647, and .8241.

    The 2003 study (http://telematica.politicas.unam.mx/.../040107017.pdf) lists the USA is the 85th-most heterogeneous country, while France ranks at number 117.
    Again, a score of zero would be perfectly homogeneous. In this study, France has an ethnic fractionalization score of .272 as opposed to the USA's .491, as well as a .251 cultural diversity score as opposed to the USA's .271.

    Both studies are a bit old and use different measurements, but both show the same thing. It's possible that increased immigration over the last 10 years has changed this, but I am going with the most recent numbers I can find.

    Anyway, this author is positing the theory that the French are able to help those with ADHD by fixing what is wrong with their social construct.

    What I am saying is that heterogeneous countries and ethnically concentrated countries tend to experience more social conflict, so it's possible that in a less ethnically diverse country we might find it easier to fix things on the social side.

    Ethnic differences also can account for diagnosis, as studies have shown that definitions and therefore diagnosis can drastically change the rates at which ADHD is diagnosed. Studies in the USA even showed a difference in the knowledge of the existence of ADHD between Whites and Blacks, and also showed a drastic difference in Blacks tending to, for example, explain the behavior away, such as due to sugar.

    I am no expert in ADHD, nor are you or likely anyone else in this thread. I just simply want to put something out there that isn't often talked about because it's easier to fear the idea of profit in medicine.

    As far as the other stuff, I mostly disagree, but it's late and I don't want to go over it. Appreciate the discussion though.

  14. #14
    Atomic Punk
    Join Date
    11.10.10
    Location
    North Wales, United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,172
    Favorite VH Album

    Love 'em all! (esp. F.U.C.K)
    Favorite VH Song

    The Dream Is Over
    Last Online

    12.04.17 @ 04:15 PM
    Likes
    1,571
    Liked 1,228 Times in 845 Posts

    Default

    As I said - and I maintain - a discussion about the role of ethnic diversity as a way of explaining the increasing numbers of kids being diagnosed with ADHD is a red herring. Interesting, but mostly irrelevant.

    As for disagreeing with my assessment of the REAL reasons behind the over-diagnoses of ADHD: the decline of traditional family values in our two nations; how parents are becoming increasingly disengaged with the role they have to play in the psychological development of their children; our increasing focus on work at the expense of parenting; giving kids computer games to entertain them, as we're too exhausted to do it ourselves; an over-reliance on fast-food as a substitute for a healthy diet; our ever-growing inability to understand kids and how certain behaviours are actually part of normal development (they're noisy, messy, unruly - how terribly 'inconvenient'), because we shove them into day-care centres at 3 months old and barely recognise them any more; a nationwide failure to invest in psychological therapy, choosing instead to rely on chemical intervention...Well, I'm not sure how you can disagree (although I had a feeling you would!), as all of the above can be SEEN with our own eyes, should we choose to look, aside from the countless studies undertaken which prove my hypotheses.

    You'll notice as well that in this post I don't even mention the conspiracists' dream scenario of doctors being 'persuaded' to prescribe pharmaceutical companies' products as a way of lining their coffers...There's no need to do so as the reasons listed above are more than sufficient to at least partly explain the ADHD epidemic.

    Like I say, let's start looking to those countries where it's less of a scourge, and try to figure out what they're doing that we're not, instead of coming up with all kinds of far-fetched (and arguably fallacious) explanations like our having a genetic mix of 53 nationalities instead of 47 within our borders.
    I'm FEMALE...Deal with it!

    "Whatever you do, wherever you go, there you are..." Edward Van Halen 1986

    "You spend the first part of your life trying to make your mark, and the second part just trying to cover up your tracks"... Weesfreewheelin, 2012

    "Life's too short to stuff a mushroom"... Shirley Conran, 1975

    "You turn if you want to...The LADY is NOT for turning!"...Margaret
    Thatcher, 1980


  15. #15
    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
    Join Date
    01.10.05
    Age
    47
    Location
    Kate Upton's Closet
    Posts
    37,899
    Favorite VH Album

    Alex, Dave, Ed and Mike
    Favorite VH Song

    The songs with Ed on them
    Last Online

    12.14.17 @ 10:37 AM
    Likes
    3,508
    Liked 18,145 Times in 8,966 Posts

    Default

    To me it really is the old adage, "follow the money".

    Parents spending more time with their children doesn't make a big pharmaceutical conglomerate any coin, but pumping them full of mediation does.
    Taylor Swift is nice to look at. Adele can sing.

    Emperor Brett - "I can't believe you guys are analyzing song-by-song Van Halen III? What next, analyzing the script of Stroker Ace looking for some shred of Citizen Kane?"

    David Lee Roth did the impossible. He made Van Halen better. Deal with it!

    Preferred pronouns: he/him/his

    Hurricane Halen - Let's all gingery touch our sword tips!!!

    DONATE TO THE LINKS YA CHEAP BASTARDS!!!!

 

 

Similar Threads

  1. “ADHD is a prime example of a fictitious disease”
    By voivod in forum VH Fans Meeting Place (Non-Music)
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 05.20.13, 05:59 PM
  2. Fed up with rowdy kids, bus driver drops kids off at police station
    By Daisy Hill in forum VH Fans Meeting Place (Non-Music)
    Replies: 83
    Last Post: 12.03.10, 03:33 AM
  3. Goat cures ADHD
    By rich5150 in forum VH Fans Meeting Place (Non-Music)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11.06.05, 09:25 AM
  4. only the french get away with this
    By lal5150 in forum VH Fans Meeting Place (Non-Music)
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 09.29.05, 02:23 PM
  5. French War History...
    By willy4pres in forum VH Fans Meeting Place (Non-Music)
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03.03.03, 05:57 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •