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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk
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    Default California Expands Availability of Abortions

    LOS ANGELES — Gov. Jerry Brown on Wednesday expanded access to abortion in California, signing a bill to allow nurse practitioners, midwives and physician assistants to perform a common type of the procedure, an aspiration abortion, during the first trimester.

    Washington, Montana, Vermont and New Hampshire allow nurse practitioners to perform such abortions, which use a tube and suction, while several other states, including California, permit nonphysicians to provide drugs to terminate pregnancy.

    But the new California law goes further, allowing a wider range of nonphysician practitioners to perform surgical abortions. While other states have passed a tide of laws restricting abortion access, California has gone against the political tide.

    “We are trending in a different direction, and we’re very proud of it,” said Toni Atkins, the state assemblywoman who wrote the bill. “California has a strong history of support for reproductive health care for women.” She said women in rural parts of the state had trouble finding an abortion provider.

    “This is an issue of accessibility,” Ms. Atkins said. “California is a very large state, and more than half the counties don’t have an abortion provider.”

    Abortion opponents said the new law would endanger women’s health.

    “This bill trivializes what is taking place with abortion,” said Brian Johnston, director of the National Right to Life’s Western regional office. “It will massively expand the number of abortions and at the same time reduce safety. For those who say they care about women’s health, they’re doing the opposite, reducing the medical standards for abortion.”

    This is not the first time in recent years that California — where Democrats control all statewide offices and both houses of the State Legislature — has bucked national trends. Last year, while conservative state governments were enacting tougher qualifications for voting, Democrats passed a series of laws intended to make registration and voting easier than ever.

    But on the issue of abortion, California is the only state this year to have expanded access to the procedure.

    By contrast, 68 restrictions on abortion have been passed by states so far this year, according to Elizabeth Nash, the state issues manager for the Guttmacher Institute, a research organization that studies reproductive health issues.

    “California is moving in a direction to protect reproductive health, as other states across the country are passing abortion restrictions,” Ms. Nash said. Supporters of the bill pointed to a state pilot program at the University of California, San Francisco, which found that nurse practitioners, certified midwife nurses and physician assistants were able to provide the procedure just as safely as surgeons.

    During the pilot program, which began in 2007, some 8,000 aspiration abortions were provided by nondoctors. Complications rates for doctors and nondoctors were similar, below 2 percent in both cases.

    “This is a very safe procedure, and we now have a very large study to show that this does not compromise safety,” said Dr. Tracy Weitz, who led the study. “Most people saying it compromises safety actually have an agenda to make abortion illegal, which we know from decades of experience actually makes abortion unsafe.”

    “Hopefully this will give women more options early in their first trimesters, when we know abortion is safest,” Dr. Weitz added. “And the second trimester, when it is more complicated, will remain in the domain of physicians.”

    Governor Brown announced his approval of the bill along with several others related to women’s health care, including one that brings construction standards for clinics that perform abortions in line with those of other primary-care clinics.
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  2. #2
    Atomic Punk CaboChris's Avatar
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    Have to make sure there is a wider pool to choose from to get rid of those "weekend mishaps". Oh I forgot, the majority of abortions are for health reasons huh? Stupid me!

  3. #3
    Gird your loins Daisy Hill's Avatar
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    12.11.17 @ 07:55 PM
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    I wish they would just concentrate on a comprehensive free birth control program


    more accessibility and education about birth control is what we need.... not more abortionists


    Abortion....it should not be outlawed....it should be OBSOLETE

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  4. #4
    Atomic Punk bsbll4's Avatar
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    12.11.17 @ 01:56 PM
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    It's always a shame that a life has to be extinguished for the sake of personal convenience. I'll never understand how anyone that is a staunch defender of abortions can act like they are on the moral high ground, when they themselves are beneficiaries of their mothers "choosing" to let them live. It's the ultimate egotism: I deserve to live, but these kids don't.

    I firmly believe that in the distant future we will look back at this era in human history the way we look at slavery and eugenics (which is where Planned Parenthood got its start).
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

  5. #5
    Atomic Punk edwardv's Avatar
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    12.11.17 @ 05:27 PM
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    55 million since Roe vs Wade. Biggest genocide in world history.
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  6. #6
    Atomic Punk CaboChris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardv View Post
    55 million since Roe vs Wade. Biggest genocide in world history.
    Careful EV, some don't appreciate when such inflammatory language is used as it might hurt feelings.

    That is a lot of potential humans that could have made this world a better place.

  7. #7
    Atomic Punk I Coulda Hada VH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaboChris View Post
    Careful EV, some don't appreciate when such inflammatory language is used as it might hurt feelings.

    That is a lot of potential humans that could have made this world a better place.
    I've always found it fascinating that the "pro choice" contingent is also typically the "anti death penalty" contingent. In other words, let's kill the innocent, unborn babies and let's save the dregs of society.
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  8. #8
    Atomic Punk CaboChris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I Coulda Hada VH View Post
    I've always found it fascinating that the "pro choice" contingent is also typically the "anti death penalty" contingent. In other words, let's kill the innocent, unborn babies and let's save the dregs of society.
    I agree, makes no sense to me.

    I think a big part of this debate is how one views life. To a lot of people it's not a human life unless it has this or that. I personally believe it starts at conception but what do I know? It takes me an hour to write one paragraph of an essay.

  9. #9
    Atomic Punk I Coulda Hada VH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaboChris View Post
    I agree, makes no sense to me.

    I think a big part of this debate is how one views life. To a lot of people it's not a human life unless it has this or that. I personally believe it starts at conception but what do I know? It takes me an hour to write one paragraph of an essay.
    Chris, one can't rush greatness. Just ask Van Halen!
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  10. #10
    Baluchitherium
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    12.11.17 @ 09:44 PM
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    What's next gov. brown? OK'ing beastiality? Legalizing inanimate object marriage? Got to be the stupidest peice of shit governer we have had to date (twice!)
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  11. #11
    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    12.11.17 @ 04:22 PM
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    My girlfriend's sister is a doctor. We had a conversation about the woman in TX who filibustered regarding abortion standards. Essentially, TX wanted to pass a law saying abortion facilities were regulated and held to the standards of any outpatient surgery center, including being within range of a hospital in case something happened. Opposing this was one of the most impressive stands in women's rights in history, apparently.

    Now, you don't have to be a doctor in order to perform them.

    Anyway, as a doctor, she told me she is decidedly against this new CA law, and thinks the support of the TX lawmaker was a sham.

    In what other area would increased access mean lowered standards? If I chose to live in an area without a cardiologist and I have heart issues, should that lack of access mean we should start letting dentists do heart exams as long as they have been certified in it?

    Look, if you can't afford to take a drive to a clinic that's outside of your county, maybe you shouldn't be involved in activities that can result in pregnancy.

  12. #12
    Emperor of VHLinks.com Brett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaboChris View Post
    Careful EV, some don't appreciate when such inflammatory language is used as it might hurt feelings.

    That is a lot of potential humans that could have made this world a better place.
    Or 55 million more unwanted children...like the world doesn't have enough.
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  13. #13
    Atomic Punk
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    Is this a thread about abortion, per se, or about this new Californian legislation allowing virtually anyone to perform what constitutes surgery?

    If it's about the latter, then, no, I don't like that idea at all.

    If it's about the former, well, my view won't be popular on this site (but, then again, my views generally do go down like lead balloons on here, so what's new) but, as far as I'm concerned, whilst that cluster of cells inside the female host's abdomen depend entirely upon her for sustenance, then they don't, in my opinion, constitute a separate 'human life'. Yes, they 'exist', but they are not a 'human being', capable of living outside her. They are, in effect, feeding parasitically off her. Yes, it sounds horrible - but that is, in essence what they are doing.

    In my eyes, therefore, whilst they are within, and totally dependent upon the female host, they are like any other part of HER body - and, if she wishes to be rid of it, I don't believe it is my, or anybody else's, right to dictate otherwise. In exactly the same way as if she wanted an unsightly mole removing, she should be allowed to do the same with those 'unwanted abdominal cells'.

    Of course, the older a foetus gets, the more capable of life outside the host it becomes, my perspective changes...But certainly within those first 12 weeks...Well, I've said my piece.

    I sometimes wonder how long it will be before those opposed to abortion make it a crime for women of reproductive age to eat unpasteurised cheese or milk, liver, vitamin 'A' in all its forms, drink alcohol, do heavy lifting, take any medicines, have an x-ray, or anything else, just in case she's pregnant and might endanger those 'cells'...Or, alternatively, if she does do / consume those things and it transpires she's up the duff, throw her in prison for reckless endangerment, ABH, GBH, or worse...

    But, anyway, back to the thread topic, it's my belief that only those properly, medically, qualified to do surgery should be allowed to do it - irrespective of the nature of the operation.
    I'm FEMALE...Deal with it!

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  14. #14
    Atomic Punk bsbll4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dibblekins View Post
    Is this a thread about abortion, per se, or about this new Californian legislation allowing virtually anyone to perform what constitutes surgery?

    If it's about the latter, then, no, I don't like that idea at all.

    If it's about the former, well, my view won't be popular on this site (but, then again, my views generally do go down like lead balloons on here, so what's new) but, as far as I'm concerned, whilst that cluster of cells inside the female host's abdomen depend entirely upon her for sustenance, then they don't, in my opinion, constitute a separate 'human life'. Yes, they 'exist', but they are not a 'human being', capable of living outside her. They are, in effect, feeding parasitically off her. Yes, it sounds horrible - but that is, in essence what they are doing.

    In my eyes, therefore, whilst they are within, and totally dependent upon the female host, they are like any other part of HER body - and, if she wishes to be rid of it, I don't believe it is my, or anybody else's, right to dictate otherwise. In exactly the same way as if she wanted an unsightly mole removing, she should be allowed to do the same with those 'unwanted abdominal cells'.

    Of course, the older a foetus gets, the more capable of life outside the host it becomes, my perspective changes...But certainly within those first 12 weeks...Well, I've said my piece.

    I sometimes wonder how long it will be before those opposed to abortion make it a crime for women of reproductive age to eat unpasteurised cheese or milk, liver, vitamin 'A' in all its forms, drink alcohol, do heavy lifting, take any medicines, have an x-ray, or anything else, just in case she's pregnant and might endanger those 'cells'...Or, alternatively, if she does do / consume those things and it transpires she's up the duff, throw her in prison for reckless endangerment, ABH, GBH, or worse...

    But, anyway, back to the thread topic, it's my belief that only those properly, medically, qualified to do surgery should be allowed to do it - irrespective of the nature of the operation.
    Dibblekins, I don't know about people on this site, but I think many in society share your views. I respectfully do not, and let me explain why:

    We are all just a mass of cells. Newborns are completely dependent on someone taking care of them. What is the cut off? Viability outside the womb (since that seems to be the global standard)? Let's look at that further:

    - Is a fetus that can be kept alive outside the mother using technology considered a human being? Premies are, apparently. What if you could grow a fetus completely outside a womb using technology? Is that baby not human?

    - When is "viability?" Is it when the baby can breathe on its own? When it feels pain? When it can think for itself? There are adults that can't do any of those, so are they less human?

    My wife just had her gallblader removed. Now, if the doctor came in, showed it to us, then turned around and tossed in the garbage disposal, we might raise an eyebrow as it being kind of strange, but there's no revulsion to it. Now take a 10 week old fetus out, show it to the mother, then turn around and throw it down the diposal to be ground up. Disgusting, right? If that scenario bothers you, it's because you know what that "mass of cells" really is.
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

  15. #15
    Atomic Punk bsbll4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brett View Post
    Or 55 million more unwanted children...like the world doesn't have enough.
    Do you value your life based on whether you were wanted or not? If you found out as a child that you weren't wanted, would you be okay with being sent to the gas chamber to ease society (or you parents) of the burden?
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

 

 

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