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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk
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    "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.” -- Gen. George S. Patton

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    Atomic Punk
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  3. #3
    Atomic Punk
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    Circumstances of Disappearance
    Jimmy and his friends, Thomas Rios and Leah Johnson were last seen in Sayre, Oklahoma on the night of November 20, 1970.

    Jimmy had a part time job at Hartman’s Seventh Street Grocery store. Owned and operated by Pete and Bess Hartman, the Seventh Street Grocery was a little neighborhood grocery store and meat market. Jimmy worked there after school and on Saturdays. At least a part of Jimmy's earnings went towards payment on a 1969 Chevrolet Camaro. With a little help from his Mom and Dad, Jimmy had just purchased the Camaro six days prior to his disappearance. The '69 Camaro was dark blue with a white vinyl top. It had a white stripe around the nose and 2 stripes extending up the hood on both sides of centerline.

    One of Jimmy's hobbies was hunting. He had a 12 gauge shotgun and a .22 pistol, and had many hunting buddies. One of his hunting buddies, Doug, went to school at Elk City which was located about 15 miles East of Sayre (Jimmy was a junior at Sayre High School). Doug played on Elk City's football team, which on Friday night November 20, 1970 was involved in an Oklahoma class 2A high school playoff football game against Watonga.

    On this night, Jim was going to get off work a little early. Even though it was payday, Jim elected to leave his check until the following day. Pete Hartman remembers Jim waving back as he walked to his car, he was smiling as he hollered back "see ya tomorrow". When Jimmy left the house that night, he told his mom he was going to the football game at Elk City. But, before he left for the evening, he backed his car up close to the back door and loaded up some shotguns into the trunk with the help of one of his younger brother's.

    In actuality, after talking to some of Jimmy's friends, it became evident that Jimmy was not going to go the football game, but instead he was going to go hunting down Turkey Creek road with Thomas Rios and Leah Johnson. Jimmy had also invited one of his best friends, named Wayne, to go along, but Wayne declined because that many people in a small car made it too crowded.

    Jim never came home that night, nor did Leah Gail Johnson, or Thomas Michael Rios. Jimmy's car has never been located.

    In the days after the kids disappeared, a red (possibly orange) Corvette was found abandoned out on Turkey Creek road. The car had been burned, and the glass had been broken. This car was a stolen vehicle with California plates.

    There are many theories about what happened to the trio that night. Some people believe the kids were kidnapped by drug smugglers who were using the Delhi airport as a drop point for illegal drugs.
    "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.” -- Gen. George S. Patton

  4. #4
    Gird your loins Daisy Hill's Avatar
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    well I guess those taxpayers can say that their tax dollars were spent effectively even if this equipment never helps solve another case


    if that technology had been available in 1970 those families would not have had to suffer the pain of not knowing what happened to their loved ones so all these decades


    and to think it solved TWO cold cases....incredible I can only imagine the officers training that day are floored by their discovery


    God bless those families.

  5. #5
    Bazinga! billy007's Avatar
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    Be interesting to see if now that they know where they ended up, they come up with a good theory as to how they got there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by billy007 View Post
    Be interesting to see if now that they know where they ended up, they come up with a good theory as to how they got there.
    Yeah. I wonder if the shotguns were still in the trunk of the camaro.
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    Atomic Punk
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    The 1950′s Chevy may be linked to an older cold case from 1969 where three people went missing from Canute.

    Debbie McManamman thinks her grandfather, 69-year-old John Alva Porter, was in the Chevy.

    “I mean, he was just gone, ” she said. “No trace at all. His money was in the bank, his house was intact and he was gone. So over 40 years we’ve been looking for him.”

    Albert Porter was 10-years-old the last time he saw his grandpa, John “Alvie” Porter. He now believes he is one of the six bodies recovered from Foss Lake.

    Porter said that while it is unusual that both cars ended up in the lake together, he remembers the car his grandpa disappeared in was always having problems and believes it may have been a tragic accident.

    “They had to push start that car many, many times to start it,” Porter said.

    Family members in Sayre, Oklahoma, comment on the cars found at Foss Lake and several of them gave DNA samples to help investigators determine the identities of the remains found in the vehicles.

    Alvie Porter’s great grandson posted this comment:
    My great Grandpa, Alvie Porter, went missing back in 1969, he was 69-years-old. I remember my Grandpa putting up signs, asking people in town if anyone had seen his dad. Today, nearly 60 years later the car he was last seen driving was recovered from Foss Lake in SW Oklahoma along with two other people he was last seen with and another car containing three kids who went missing in a different car in 1970. I swam in the spot as a kid, as a teenager and just recently took my kids to feed the ducks near place where he was recovered.
    "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.” -- Gen. George S. Patton

  8. #8
    Errors Have Occured Number 47's Avatar
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  9. #9
    Atomic Punk ZeoBandit's Avatar
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    What is even more amazing is that the cars were only in 12' of water. Amazing they hadn't been found before now.
    "What we are dealing with here, is a complete lack of respect for the law" - Jackie Gleason, Smokey and the Bandit

    www.geocaching.com - The site where you are the search engine.

  10. #10
    Gird your loins Daisy Hill's Avatar
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    they said the water there is very silty from runoff and the visibility is only a few feet

    so amazing....these cars were just beyond sight all these years....you would think that back when it happened there would have been some evidence of the cars leaving the bank tho

  11. #11
    Gird your loins Daisy Hill's Avatar
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    and now another cold case involving 2 North Dakota girls missing since 1971 looks to be solved
    hope this family finally gets some closure

    http://gma.yahoo.com/skeletal-remain...opstories.html
    Authorities have found skeletal remains in the 1960 Studebaker that was pulled from a South Dakota creek and tied them to a cold case from more than 40 years ago.

    "Skeletal remains have been recovered as well as additional items. No further information will be released until a requested autopsy and further testing is complete and family members properly notified," the South Dakota Attorney General's Office said in a statement.

    Officials said pieces of evidence taken from the site of the recovered car had been "processed," and "items of potential evidentiary significance have been preserved" but did not elaborate further.

    Cheryl Miller and Pamella Jackson, both 17, were last seen in Union County, S.D., on their way to a party on May 29, 1971. They were driving a beige Studebaker Lark that officials believe belonged to one of the grandfathers of one of the girls.

    Now, 42 years later, it appears that the Studebaker has turned up.
    "A fisherman or hunter noticed a wheel in a small creek area, or embankment, in Union County, S.D.," Sara Rabern, spokeswoman for the South Dakota Office of the Attorney General, told ABCNews.com. "He contacted the sheriff."

    "The division of criminal investigation was called in and they were able to determine that the license plate belonged to one of the missing girls' grandfather," Rabern said.

    It is unknown at this time why the car had not been spotted before, but Rabern said there was historically low water levels this year, which may have helped.
    Relatives of the two teenagers have been notified about the car.

    "The police department called to let us know before the news came out," a relative of Pamella Jackson told ABCNews.com, asking that he not be identified by name because the family did not yet want to make a formal statement. "They just said they found the car. We know for sure it's the car because the license plates are still on it."

    "We're kind of surprised that they found it, but we're happy," the relative said. "It's one more piece of the puzzle."

    Jackson's father recently died and the family received the news of the car just days after his burial.

    The case has had a tumultuous history. On two separate occasions, two men serving prison sentences for unrelated charges were indicted in the murders of the girls, but both times the charges were dropped when supposed admissions to other inmates turned out to be fake, according to the Associated Press.
    In September 2004, a search of a Union County farm led to the discovery of bones, clothing, a purse, photos and other items, but not the car, the AP reported. Authorities did not say if the bones were the girls' or even if they were human remains.

    This is the second time in recent weeks that a submerged car has helped connect the dots in a cold case.

    In Oklahoma last week, six sets of skeletal remains were recovered from two cars that were found three feet away from each other at the bottom of a lake. Officials are still conducting DNA testing, but believe that one car belonged to three teens who disappeared and the other to a grandfather with two friends.

  12. #12
    Outta Space Cowboy Scotty's Avatar
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    Fascinating.

  13. #13
    Atomic Punk
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daisy Hill View Post
    and now another cold case involving 2 North Dakota girls missing since 1971 looks to be solved
    hope this family finally gets some closure

    http://gma.yahoo.com/skeletal-remain...opstories.html
    Authorities have found skeletal remains in the 1960 Studebaker that was pulled from a South Dakota creek and tied them to a cold case from more than 40 years ago.

    "Skeletal remains have been recovered as well as additional items. No further information will be released until a requested autopsy and further testing is complete and family members properly notified," the South Dakota Attorney General's Office said in a statement.

    Officials said pieces of evidence taken from the site of the recovered car had been "processed," and "items of potential evidentiary significance have been preserved" but did not elaborate further.

    Cheryl Miller and Pamella Jackson, both 17, were last seen in Union County, S.D., on their way to a party on May 29, 1971. They were driving a beige Studebaker Lark that officials believe belonged to one of the grandfathers of one of the girls.

    Now, 42 years later, it appears that the Studebaker has turned up.
    "A fisherman or hunter noticed a wheel in a small creek area, or embankment, in Union County, S.D.," Sara Rabern, spokeswoman for the South Dakota Office of the Attorney General, told ABCNews.com. "He contacted the sheriff."

    "The division of criminal investigation was called in and they were able to determine that the license plate belonged to one of the missing girls' grandfather," Rabern said.

    It is unknown at this time why the car had not been spotted before, but Rabern said there was historically low water levels this year, which may have helped.
    Relatives of the two teenagers have been notified about the car.

    "The police department called to let us know before the news came out," a relative of Pamella Jackson told ABCNews.com, asking that he not be identified by name because the family did not yet want to make a formal statement. "They just said they found the car. We know for sure it's the car because the license plates are still on it."

    "We're kind of surprised that they found it, but we're happy," the relative said. "It's one more piece of the puzzle."

    Jackson's father recently died and the family received the news of the car just days after his burial.

    The case has had a tumultuous history. On two separate occasions, two men serving prison sentences for unrelated charges were indicted in the murders of the girls, but both times the charges were dropped when supposed admissions to other inmates turned out to be fake, according to the Associated Press.
    In September 2004, a search of a Union County farm led to the discovery of bones, clothing, a purse, photos and other items, but not the car, the AP reported. Authorities did not say if the bones were the girls' or even if they were human remains.

    This is the second time in recent weeks that a submerged car has helped connect the dots in a cold case.

    In Oklahoma last week, six sets of skeletal remains were recovered from two cars that were found three feet away from each other at the bottom of a lake. Officials are still conducting DNA testing, but believe that one car belonged to three teens who disappeared and the other to a grandfather with two friends.
    ELK POINT, S.D. – Two South Dakota girls on their way to an end-of-school-year party at a gravel pit in May 1971 drove off a country road and into a creek where their remains lay hidden until last fall when a drought brought their car into view, authorities said Tuesday.

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/04/16...thorities-say/
    "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.” -- Gen. George S. Patton

  14. #14
    Atomic Punk
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    Oklahoma cases solved: DNA tests show Foss Lake remains are 6 missing people

    (CNN) -- A decades-old mystery that captivated Oklahoma has been solved after officials confirmed the identities of two groups of people -- some of them teens -- who went missing in 1969 and 1970.

    The first crack in the cold cases came when police in the tiny town of Sayre were testing sonar equipment in September 2013 in murky Foss Lake. They were stunned to discover a green 1952 Chevrolet and a blue 1969 Chevrolet Camaro.

    Human remains found in the Camaro matched the general descriptions of three teenagers -- Jimmy Allen Williams, 16, Leah Gail Johnson, 18, and Thomas Michael Rios, 18, all from Sayre, the state Medical Examiner's Office said.

    The other remains matched the genders and ages of three passengers in the green Chevrolet who went missing in 1969, the medical examiner said last year.

    John Alva Porter, then 69, was in that car with Cleburn Hammack, 42, and Nora Marie Duncan, 58.

    DNA test results this week prove that the bodies belonged to the missing, the state Medical Examiner's Office said, adding that they all died from drowning and their deaths were accidental.

    One night in 1970, another in 1969

    The three teenagers who disappeared went for a ride around their hometown in Williams' blue Camaro with a white top, according to the Doe Network, a volunteer organization that helps law enforcement solve cold cases.

    Only six days before the 16-year-old and his friends went missing, Williams had bought the used Camaro, a slick muscle car that teenage boys loved at that time, said Dayva Spitzer, publisher of The Sayre Record & Beckham County Democrat newspaper.

    Johnson was Native American and, Spitzer said, was related to legendary Indian chief Sitting Bull. Residents regarded Johnson as an Indian princess, she told CNN.

    Williams and his friends had planned to attend a football game the night they went missing, but they may have gone hunting instead, Spitzer said. Two rifles were found, rusted and corroded, in the Camaro.

    In the other car, Porter, Duncan and Hammack were last seen when their car was "given a push" to help get it started, according to a July 1969 newspaper article published in Oklahoma.

    http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/23/us/fos...&iref=obinsite
    "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.” -- Gen. George S. Patton

  15. #15
    Changes are coming Dick Punch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voivod View Post
    Oklahoma cases solved: DNA tests show Foss Lake remains are 6 missing people

    (CNN) -- A decades-old mystery that captivated Oklahoma has been solved after officials confirmed the identities of two groups of people -- some of them teens -- who went missing in 1969 and 1970.

    The first crack in the cold cases came when police in the tiny town of Sayre were testing sonar equipment in September 2013 in murky Foss Lake. They were stunned to discover a green 1952 Chevrolet and a blue 1969 Chevrolet Camaro.

    Human remains found in the Camaro matched the general descriptions of three teenagers -- Jimmy Allen Williams, 16, Leah Gail Johnson, 18, and Thomas Michael Rios, 18, all from Sayre, the state Medical Examiner's Office said.

    The other remains matched the genders and ages of three passengers in the green Chevrolet who went missing in 1969, the medical examiner said last year.

    John Alva Porter, then 69, was in that car with Cleburn Hammack, 42, and Nora Marie Duncan, 58.

    DNA test results this week prove that the bodies belonged to the missing, the state Medical Examiner's Office said, adding that they all died from drowning and their deaths were accidental.
    One night in 1970, another in 1969

    The three teenagers who disappeared went for a ride around their hometown in Williams' blue Camaro with a white top, according to the Doe Network, a volunteer organization that helps law enforcement solve cold cases.

    Only six days before the 16-year-old and his friends went missing, Williams had bought the used Camaro, a slick muscle car that teenage boys loved at that time, said Dayva Spitzer, publisher of The Sayre Record & Beckham County Democrat newspaper.

    Johnson was Native American and, Spitzer said, was related to legendary Indian chief Sitting Bull. Residents regarded Johnson as an Indian princess, she told CNN.

    Williams and his friends had planned to attend a football game the night they went missing, but they may have gone hunting instead, Spitzer said. Two rifles were found, rusted and corroded, in the Camaro.

    In the other car, Porter, Duncan and Hammack were last seen when their car was "given a push" to help get it started, according to a July 1969 newspaper article published in Oklahoma.

    http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/23/us/fos...&iref=obinsite
    How in the fuck would it be known that they died from drowning, by the time they pulled those cars out of that lake there were just skeletons left and as far as I know you can't determine a cause of death from bones.
    It's a slippery slope.

    “I am for doing good to the poor, but...I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. I observed...that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.”
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