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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk
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    12.11.17 @ 04:37 PM
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    Default 4 x 3 = 11, it's OK since it's close enough

    Community Consolidated School District 46 curriculum coordinator Amanda August in which she said it matters less if students answer 3 x 4 incorrectly as long as they can explain how they arrived at their final answer.

    But the 43-second clip of August’s response being highlighted, in which she explains the “different ways” students will be taught to do problems under Common Core, does not show the first part of her answer in which she said students should “come up with the same answer no matter how they do” the problem.



    The program is described as "a new national curriculum the Obama administration is imposing on schools," Common Core is not a curriculum, but a set of standards that delineates what skills students should acquire at each grade level. States have the option to decide whether or not to adopt the Common Core standards, and school districts determine their own curricula to comply. Forty-five states and the District of Columbia have adopted the program. Many private and religious schools have opted-out.

    Kathleen Porter-Magee of the Thomas B. Fordham institute and Sol Stern of the Manhattan Institute explained in the National Review that according to Fordham Institute research, compared "with existing state standards ... for most states, Common Core is a great improvement with regard to rigor and cohesiveness."
    "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.” -- Gen. George S. Patton

  2. #2
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Community Consolidated School District 46 curriculum coordinator Amanda August in which she said it matters less if students answer 3 x 4 incorrectly as long as they can explain how they arrived at their final answer.
    she's right. It's not important if a kid can memorize a multiplcation table - it's important that a kid can understand that table.

  3. #3
    ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ Number 47's Avatar
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    I think the thread title is very misleading.

    She seems to be saying that if the child does come up with 11 as the answer, they need to be able to explain how they concluded that. Only then can the teachers apply the proper explanation as to why the student is wrong.

    I get where she's coming from.

  4. #4
    Good Enough pickslide's Avatar
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    12.13.17 @ 02:09 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    she's right. It's not important if a kid can memorize a multiplcation table - it's important that a kid can understand that table.
    Our education system has consistently gotten worse since the federal government started meddling in it. The "spirit" of common core is going to be trumped by the "letter" of it's implementation. This will only bring in more politics, and the result will be, unfortunately, more madcap politics and less real learning.

    Hopefully, I'm wrong. But history suggests there is nothing bad that US bureaucrats can't make a little worse.

    TK

  5. #5
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pickslide View Post
    Our education system has consistently gotten worse since the federal government started meddling in it. The "spirit" of common core is going to be trumped by the "letter" of it's implementation. This will only bring in more politics, and the result will be, unfortunately, more madcap politics and less real learning.

    Hopefully, I'm wrong. But history suggests there is nothing bad that US bureaucrats can't make a little worse.

    TK
    you're probably right.

    But in this specific instance I agree with that teacher. Walk around your workplace and ask people what 13X12 equals. And get ready for 95% to not only not know the answer is 156, but to have no idea how to get to that answer if you give them time to think about it.

    Schools up here (and I'm sure it's the same stateside) don't teach kids to understand math in the early grades - they just drill tables into their heads (which is boring and a waste of time for most students). It's a pet peeve of mine. If you teach kids to understand math you'll never need to memorize a stupid table. You'd just know how to do it in your head no matter the numbers.

    Teaching a kid to think through 4 x 3 is more imporant that memorizing the answer is 12 but having no idea why the answer is 12.

  6. #6
    Forum Frontman Double Down's Avatar
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    Give me a break. Stop trying to justify this stupidity. A kid needs to know 4x3=12. Any explanation of why it's not important to get it right is lazy and moronic as far as I'm concerned.


    Bottom line is every kid should be able to rattle off the multiplication table up through 12x12. It's a basic learning skill for crying out loud.
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  7. #7
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Down View Post
    Give me a break. Stop trying to justify this stupidity. A kid needs to know 4x3=12. Any explanation of why it's not important to get it right is lazy and moronic as far as I'm concerned.


    Bottom line is every kid should be able to rattle off the multiplication table up through 12x12. It's a basic learning skill for crying out loud.

    And they stop at 12 and have no clue beyond that. Great. That's fucking useless and a huge waste of time. Its why we suck at math. Memorize, memorize, memorize but don't understand anything. What a concept.

    Kids should know that table but not because they memorized the fucking thing and it shouldn't stop at fucking 12. Why 12?

  8. #8
    Forum Frontman Double Down's Avatar
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    What in holy hell are you talking about?? Yes, every kid should memorize that table because it's a basic math skill that is invaluable. Jesus.
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  9. #9
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Down View Post
    What in holy hell are you talking about?? Yes, every kid should memorize that table because it's a basic math skill that is invaluable. Jesus.

    Actually memorizing a table isn't basic math. It's a fucking memory exercise.

    kids shouldn't know "a table", they should be able to fucking mutiply in their heads.. A kid memorizing a table has no clue what 12 X 13 is. A kid who knows how to mutiply does. I want the 2nd kid, the first hasn't learned a damn thing. He's just memorized some useless shit. Congrats.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    Actually memorizing a table isn't basic math. It's a fucking memory exercise.

    kids shouldn't know "a table", they should be able to fucking mutiply in their heads.. A kid memorizing a table has no clue what 12 X 13 is. A kid who knows how to mutiply does. I want the 2nd kid, the first hasn't learned a damn thing. He's just memorized some useless shit. Congrats.
    Well no shit. But you're really taking it to the extreme. You memorize the table as you learn how it works. By the time someone knows what 8x5 is they should know how they got there.
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  11. #11
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Down View Post
    Well no shit. But you're really taking it to the extreme. You memorize the table as you learn how it works. By the time someone knows what 8x5 is they should know how they got there.
    i'm not taking it to the extreme. Walk around wherever you work and ask people what 12 x 12 is and a bunch of people will still have them memorized. Ask those same people what 14 X 14 is and many of them won't be able to get that answer. It's because they never really learned to multiply.

    What this teacher is saying is that it's more important to teach kids how to mutiply then it is to get them to memorize a table. And she's 100% right. But the fuckwads on the other side of political spectrum will paint this as "4 x 3 = 11, it's OK since it's close enough". No assholes, that's not what she's saying at all. But there's nothing like taking a concept and twisting it to make the other side look bad. I pity these losers.

  12. #12
    Baluchitherium Ted Van Halen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    Actually memorizing a table isn't basic math. It's a fucking memory exercise.

    kids shouldn't know "a table", they should be able to fucking mutiply in their heads.. A kid memorizing a table has no clue what 12 X 13 is. A kid who knows how to mutiply does. I want the 2nd kid, the first hasn't learned a damn thing. He's just memorized some useless shit. Congrats.
    Gonna step out of character here & agree. My boy's spelling & math curricula (I single those out because they will potentially have greater impact later) are so far removed-in a good way-from what I was taught at their ages it's pathetic. They are being taught to love learning and how to arrive at a fact, not just memorize a bunch of them.

    Oddly enough, the math curriculum teaches things in a way I've come to do "mental math" on my own over the years.
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  13. #13
    Forum Frontman Double Down's Avatar
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    Memorizing the table is part of the process of learning the fundamentals of how to multiply. I don't know how you can separate the two.


    It should go without saying that any kid who multiplies 4x3 and gets 11 will be questioned by the teacher as to how he got that. It's called teaching.
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  14. #14
    Baluchitherium Ted Van Halen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Down View Post
    Memorizing the table is part of the process of learning the fundamentals of how to multiply. I don't know how you can separate the two.


    It should go without saying that any kid who multiplies 4x3 and gets 11 will be questioned by the teacher as to how he got that. It's called teaching.
    I disagree. The experience w/ my kids has been that you learn how to multiply & the memorization comes over time as a result of that.

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  15. #15
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Down View Post
    Memorizing the table is part of the process of learning the fundamentals of how to multiply. I don't know how you can separate the two.


    It should go without saying that any kid who multiplies 4x3 and gets 11 will be questioned by the teacher as to how he got that. It's called teaching.
    memorizing the table is just that, memorizing the table.

    It's just one (lazy) tool that can be used but doesn't need to be. I'm teaching my son how to multiply and i don't have a giant mutiplication table for him to look at while we're doing questions. We do have 100 pieces of dried pasta though. It's much more likely to help him learn how to mutiply. By the time he gets to the grade where teachers bust out that table (I think it's grade 3) I'm hoping he'll know all the answers on it but it's not because he's memorized them, it's because he knows how to multiply.

    I guess it depends on the goal. If the goal is for every kid to know how to know the answers on that table: then memorize away. If the goal is to teach a kid how to multiply then keep it away from them. It's more of a hindrance than a help in my opinion.

    If a kid says 4 X 3 is 11, a good teacher shouldn't just correct them. They should know how they got to the answer. And sadly the answer is too often "I didn't properly memorize the table".

 

 

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