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  1. #1
    Sinner's Swing! Rokgtar's Avatar
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    Equal pay for women?

    OK, it is pretty obvious that at some point not too soon, we will have marriage equality in the United States. "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness" are at play here and at the end of the day, it really doesn't matter to me that a same sex couple be able to marry.

    NOW- here are 2 issues I have with the whole thing:

    1) Pay equality - it is no secret that women make an average of 10 to 20% less for doing the same job as a man does. Women have been part of the workforce for how long now? What I have seen as an example is 2 gay guys who live together and each make a nice big fat male salary, no kids, etc... They generally live pretty damn well financially as a result. Now, at least one of the men in the same sex relationship is going to be the "wife", so to speak. Yet I am sure he is paid a "man's salary". Now, look at an heterosexual couple - the man usually is the breadwinner (not always, but probably more often than not) and the woman, who works just as hard as the man, and sometimes harder, is generally paid less money for their work on average when compared to a man. This shit has got to stop! If we are going to have marriage equality, they we need to have pay equality as well.

    2) Reverse discrimination/homophobia - this may draw roll eyes or even get me some nasty responses, but IMO it is human nature for a heterosexual person to be offended and even repulsed by homosexual activity and behavior. The majority of human beings and animals are programmed to reproduce with the opposite sex, and have a built in repulsion for same sex activity. This is a biological response to ensure that procreation occurs and the species is propagated. This response is as deeply embedded into a heterosexual person as homosexuality is embedded into a gay person. Gays want to be accepted, and people are becoming more tolerant as time goes on. But, we each have an orientation that is at the core of who we are. So, IMO most of those who are repulsed by homosexual behavior are not bigots; they are just acting on a basic human response to refrain from said behavior and to even be uncomfortable around those who practice it. I used to work with a gay guy who was openly and vocally repulsed by heterosexual behavior and would call us all "breeders". I was not overly offended by that, but I thought it was pretty damn hypocritical for him to openly discuss his relationship and sex life and then be so negatively opinionated about heterosexuality.

    Yes, "high minded" individuals may be able to dismiss the biological response of repulsion... usually the reason being that they want to get along and maybe they like the gay person or couple as people. That's fine and good if they are able to look past that. But, I'd bet that discussions about their sex lives or open displays of physical affection (i.e. kissing, etc...) are still going to make these tolerant people uncomfortable.

    My point is, the biological and emotional response is just as strong and natural for a heterosexual person to be avoidant and repulsed by homosexual behavior as it is for a gay person be be drawn to it. And gay people need to understand this, and be tolerant of those who are not comfortable with their lifestyle or behavior.

    BTW - I don't fear or hate gays and I don't have any religious hangups about gay behavior - my thoughts are strictly from a human nature/biological standpoint. I also have 2 nieces who are lesbian. I love them both and truly want them to be happy.

  2. #2
    Atomic Punk CaboChris's Avatar
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    12.16.17 @ 11:27 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokgtar View Post
    1) Pay equality - it is no secret that women make an average of 10 to 20% less for doing the same job as a man does. Women have been part of the workforce for how long now? What I have seen as an example is 2 gay guys who live together and each make a nice big fat male salary, no kids, etc... They generally live pretty damn well financially as a result. Now, at least one of the men in the same sex relationship is going to be the "wife", so to speak. Yet I am sure he is paid a "man's salary". Now, look at an heterosexual couple - the man usually is the breadwinner (not always, but probably more often than not) and the woman, who works just as hard as the man, and sometimes harder, is generally paid less money for their work on average when compared to a man. This shit has got to stop! If we are going to have marriage equality, they we need to have pay equality as well.
    I'll just go ahead and post it myself and save Dibblekins the trouble. This is where she says: "I think I love you"! Rabid wolves couldnt keep her from liking this post and if she could like it a thousand times it wouldn't be enough.

  3. #3
    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
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    12.16.17 @ 06:36 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokgtar View Post
    1) Pay equality - it is no secret that women make an average of 10 to 20% less for doing the same job as a man does. Women have been part of the workforce for how long now? What I have seen as an example is 2 gay guys who live together and each make a nice big fat male salary, no kids, etc... They generally live pretty damn well financially as a result. Now, at least one of the men in the same sex relationship is going to be the "wife", so to speak. Yet I am sure he is paid a "man's salary". Now, look at an heterosexual couple - the man usually is the breadwinner (not always, but probably more often than not) and the woman, who works just as hard as the man, and sometimes harder, is generally paid less money for their work on average when compared to a man. This shit has got to stop! If we are going to have marriage equality, they we need to have pay equality as well.
    I am sure there are still some executives who are sexist and pay women less just because they are women, but I make more money than the lady CPA in our office who became a CPA at the same time I did, and there is a very simple reason why.

    She had kids and took time off from being in the workforce. Experience in most lines of work count towards your skill level and how much you are paid. Even though we are the same age, with the same credentials, I get paid more, as I should, I know more than she does, simply because I didn't take five years off and then come back to the work force and work part time.

    Many women take years off from being in the workforce to have and raise children, which is great, but they shouldn't expect to be paid the same when they come back into the workforce as the guy who has been there for the entire time.
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  4. #4
    Good Enough pickslide's Avatar
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    12.14.17 @ 01:09 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Dreidel View Post
    I am sure there are still some executives who are sexist and pay women less just because they are women, but I make more money than the lady CPA in our office who became a CPA at the same time I did, and there is a very simple reason why.

    She had kids and took time off from being in the workforce. Experience in most lines of work count towards your skill level and how much you are paid. Even though we are the same age, with the same credentials, I get paid more, as I should, I know more than she does, simply because I didn't take five years off and then come back to the work force and work part time.

    Many women take years off from being in the workforce to have and raise children, which is great, but they shouldn't expect to be paid the same when they come back into the workforce as the guy who has been there for the entire time.
    There are many reasons why women make less, and, yes, some are legit. But women are also marginalized and discriminated against in this country. Hell, almost any country, really.

    But making a federal law to "fix" a problem that has deep roots in biology, psychology, ad culture is a terrible idea. You can't fix a complex problem like this by legislating for equal outcomes between people with different abilities, experience levels, negotiating skills and priorities. It only sets people against one another, encourages them to use force to solve their problems and, ultimately, delays the movement for true equality another decade or so.

    TK

  5. #5
    Sinner's Swing! Rokgtar's Avatar
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    Good points about taking time off, and yes, if a person took years off and were out of the workforce, then they should not expect to make the same salary as someone who has been in the workforce for the whole time.

    I'm more concerned about the general aspect of women making less while working alongside men who do the same job but make more. I am married, and damnit, my wife works hard and works long hours. I am not the kind who would feel threatened if my wife made more money than me... I just think that, outside of taking years off from work, and a potential lack of equal experience in a job, there needs to be more equity in pay between women and men. I will benefit from it as much as my wife will!

    I would expect that a woman (or a man) who has more experience than I do at my job to make more money than me. That's how I think it should work. If he or she doesn't, then she should be paid a fair salary for her experience and contributions, equal to what a man would make with similar experience and qualifications.

  6. #6
    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
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    12.16.17 @ 06:36 AM
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    Maybe it is just because of the industry and geographic location I am in, but I just don't see women being discriminated against in salary.

    Was doing a 401k audit last week, and the top three earners in the company were women. And the top earner was HOT to boot. Her husband hit the fucking lottery, he works for her as head of "business development", ie, he takes clients and prospects out golfing and drinking while she runs the business and brings home big bucks.

    Nice gig if you can get it.
    Taylor Swift is nice to look at. Adele can sing.

    Emperor Brett - "I can't believe you guys are analyzing song-by-song Van Halen III? What next, analyzing the script of Stroker Ace looking for some shred of Citizen Kane?"

    David Lee Roth did the impossible. He made Van Halen better. Deal with it!

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  7. #7
    Atomic Punk bsbll4's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 12:23 PM
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    I was reading an article a few months ago about how the pay scale difference between the sexes is a completely manufactured statistic. If you take a man and a woman with the exact same experience, exact same work history, and exact same performance, they will make the exact same salary. The difference is that women will take more time off work due to having children or spending time with the family. Having the flexibility to travel and spend long hours at work has more impact on your future wage earning potential than being a man or a woman.


    Of course, women being half of the electorate, it benefits politicians to make this an issue to show how compassionate they are and how only they want equality...the other guy wants you in the kitchen.
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

  8. #8
    Sinner's Swing! Rokgtar's Avatar
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    I just want more money in my household

  9. #9
    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaboChris View Post
    Just for you DD.
    So nasty.

    I hope those two ladies are able to conquer that horrible disease they have contracted.
    Taylor Swift is nice to look at. Adele can sing.

    Emperor Brett - "I can't believe you guys are analyzing song-by-song Van Halen III? What next, analyzing the script of Stroker Ace looking for some shred of Citizen Kane?"

    David Lee Roth did the impossible. He made Van Halen better. Deal with it!

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  10. #10
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsbll4 View Post
    I was reading an article a few months ago about how the pay scale difference between the sexes is a completely manufactured statistic. If you take a man and a woman with the exact same experience, exact same work history, and exact same performance, they will make the exact same salary. The difference is that women will take more time off work due to having children or spending time with the family. Having the flexibility to travel and spend long hours at work has more impact on your future wage earning potential than being a man or a woman.


    Of course, women being half of the electorate, it benefits politicians to make this an issue to show how compassionate they are and how only they want equality...the other guy wants you in the kitchen.
    I can't speak to society in general but can tell you that in my line of work (work for a bank) and in my wife's line of work (teaching) there is zero difference between a man's and woman's salary for the same job.

    I often think these stats aren't legit. I'd prefer they break them up be occupation to see how legit these are. If it's an average then I can see why the male average salary would be higher just because of outliers (ie male pro athletes make 100 times the female counterpart).

  11. #11
    Atomic Punk
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    I know that this thread is about gay marriage - but can we focus instead on bigamous marriage? I ask this because I think I might want to marry Rokgtar.
    I'm FEMALE...Deal with it!

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  12. #12
    Hot For Teacher Amish Van Halen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Dreidel View Post
    I am sure there are still some executives who are sexist and pay women less just because they are women, but I make more money than the lady CPA in our office who became a CPA at the same time I did, and there is a very simple reason why.

    She had kids and took time off from being in the workforce. Experience in most lines of work count towards your skill level and how much you are paid. Even though we are the same age, with the same credentials, I get paid more, as I should, I know more than she does, simply because I didn't take five years off and then come back to the work force and work part time.

    Many women take years off from being in the workforce to have and raise children, which is great, but they shouldn't expect to be paid the same when they come back into the workforce as the guy who has been there for the entire time.
    Well they didn't fuck themselves and get pregnant. You make it sound like women had a choice.
    Best concert ever...88 Monsters of Rock at the LA Coliseum with VH, Scorpions, Metallica, Dokken and Kingdom Come.

  13. #13
    Atomic Punk CaboChris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Dreidel View Post
    Many women take years off from being in the workforce to have and raise children, which is great, but they shouldn't expect to be paid the same when they come back into the workforce as the guy who has been there for the entire time.
    Doesn't matter if they take time off to raise kids. There is still disparity in income regardless between the sexes and statistics show that to be true. Its gotten better but men still make more than women in general.
    Last edited by CaboChris; 07.01.13 at 02:36 PM.

  14. #14
    Outta Space Cowboy Scotty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amish Van Halen View Post
    Well they didn't fuck themselves and get pregnant. You make it sound like women had a choice.
    I know you're a bit radical, but the insinuation all pregnancy results from rape is extreme even for The Amish.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaboChris View Post
    Doesn't matter if they take time off to raise kids. There is still disparity in income regardless between the sexes and statistics show that to be true. Its gotten better but men still make more than women in general.
    There should also be more men tking time off to raise kids...

 

 

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