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  1. #1
    Romeo Delight
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    05.24.16 @ 03:24 PM
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    Default EVH and guitar question

    We all know how Edward Van Halen turned the rock guitar world upside down when they hit the big time. The entire 1980s rock scene guitar playing-wise was pretty much a clone of him, and the band in general. It seemed like the whole shredding, ridiculously fast playing, virtuosity, neo-classical, speed kills movement exploded in parallel with him and his playing.

    My question is, would that whole "shred" movement have happened inevitably with or without Edward? Some guys were starting to push the limits in the mid 70s with more intricate runs and licks that weren't simply based off pentatonic boxes. Blackmore was doing his thing, and there were guys in lesser known rock bands tearing it up pretty well and shifting towards that outside-the-box direction. It seems like pop music has change because like anything, music gets stale if the same thing gets done over and over. We saw it after the initial Elvis era started to wind down how rock changed, the harder rock and what could be considered metal came about in the late 60s/early 70s. I wrote my Master's thesis on EVH at Rutgers University with one of themes the obvious "innovator" or whatever you want to label it. Time constraints forced me to get it done faster than I would have liked, and I wanted to really expand on it. I might try to turn it into a book with the extended ideas and themes I have.

  2. #2
    On Fire abe5150's Avatar
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    10.28.17 @ 01:10 PM
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    It wouldn't have been the same. It would have been more gradual...like a slow Evolution.

    What Ed did had immediate impact. It was a Revolution. He immediately showed others just how much farther you could take the guitar. And then others took it to even crazier heights.

    Revolution vs. Evolution? No contest for me. Revolutions can inspire and spark immediate change. Powerful impact, versus slow and steady over time.

  3. #3
    Sinner's Swing!
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    12.10.17 @ 07:14 PM
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    Default

    It's just impossible to know. You can't take one specific thing out of history and account for all the ensuing changes or non-changes. It's basically chaos theory/butterfly effect stuff.

    You could just as easily imagine that our world as we know it IS the "what if" scenario and where some other spectacular musical revolution or person never happened. Do you miss it? Of course not, we don't even know that it's missing. The same would be the case if we never had Eddie around. Not that things we end up the same, just that no one would be aware enough to notice something was missing.

    Besides, there were lots of other people that inspired the later shredders from Blackmore and Uli Roth and Randy Rhoads to the fusion and other style guitarists like Al Dimeola and Allan Holdsworth and other radically different players like Jeff Beck. Things would just be different.


    That doesn't lessen Eddie's importance any, he affected the world as we know it and that's that.

  4. #4
    Baluchitherium Harpospoke's Avatar
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    12.10.17 @ 07:58 PM
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by abe5150 View Post
    It wouldn't have been the same. It would have been more gradual...like a slow Evolution.

    What Ed did had immediate impact. It was a Revolution. He immediately showed others just how much farther you could take the guitar. And then others took it to even crazier heights.

    Revolution vs. Evolution? No contest for me. Revolutions can inspire and spark immediate change. Powerful impact, versus slow and steady over time.
    Evolution vs....Eruption? (runs)

  5. #5
    Eruption Naked Wake's Avatar
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    12.09.17 @ 06:49 AM
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    Default

    I think it would have happened anyway. Yngwie formed the first version of Rising Force in 1978 when he was 15 years old, and early demos prove he's doing the lightning fast "shred" thing.

    Yngwie was a different type of player than EVH though.

    I think you basically had two schools of thought for playing guitar in the '80's:

    1. Neo Classical Shred, aka Yngwie clone
    2. Blues based/legato/freestyle to the max aka EVH clone

    Some guys were in between. Randy Rhoads is a perfect example of in between, even though he never mentioned Yngwie as an influence

  6. #6
    Sinner's Swing! Rick S's Avatar
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    06.23.17 @ 09:49 PM
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    Default

    ^^^^ THIS
    www.rickshick.tumblr.com

    1love4chi

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    Dave or Sammy ?.........pffffft Eddie.

  7. #7
    On Fire abe5150's Avatar
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    10.28.17 @ 01:10 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naked Wake View Post
    I think it would have happened anyway. Yngwie formed the first version of Rising Force in 1978 when he was 15 years old, and early demos prove he's doing the lightning fast "shred" thing.

    Yngwie was a different type of player than EVH though.

    I think you basically had two schools of thought for playing guitar in the '80's:

    1. Neo Classical Shred, aka Yngwie clone
    2. Blues based/legato/freestyle to the max aka EVH clone

    Some guys were in between. Randy Rhoads is a perfect example of in between, even though he never mentioned Yngwie as an influence

    Maybe so and good point with Yngwie. But remember, most of these guys weren't that popular. Ed was the first "shredder" to cross over into the mainstream.

    Randy Rhoads would have been another candidate, since he played the big arenas with Ozzy. But unfortunately he died way too young.

    Ed made it popular and acceptable to play that style -- which is why we have all these guitar virtuosos from the 1980's. They were all hooked in 1978.

  8. #8
    Baluchitherium
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    11.25.17 @ 04:30 AM
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    I agree that it would have happened anyway. It was in the making and was bubbling up to the surface. Let's not forget the mighty John McLaughlin. He was a great blend of melodicism, precision, and speed. He was shredding before Eddie was.

    It's like tapping: Eddie didn't invent it, but he did it differently, if not better. Personally, I liked his version of tapping more than Chapman's, Hackett's, Resnick's, or Mandel's versions. Plus, the fact that Van Halen's debut album was entirely kick-ass and popular helped to build Eddie's legend.

    The Shred Revolution is like the Reformation: both were destined to happen no matter who the "lightning rod" for either one was, but Eddie Van Halen and Martin Luther each brought their own unique personality to the table in their respective movement. Each would have been different if they were spearheaded by someone else. Thank God for Eddie Van Halen and Martin Luther!

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  9. #9
    Unchained
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    11.25.15 @ 01:00 PM
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    Default

    The thing about Eddie is he's an insane player but he does so within the context of some incredibly well written songs. To me that's the difference between him and many of the other gunslingers who may or may not have blown open the 80's.

    Were there other guitarists who were heading in that direction? Sure. But you have to be more than a hotshot guitarist to influence an entire decades worth of imitators ... Van Halen were the total package. Great songs, great melodies, terrific harmonies/vocals, great musicianship, great live show etc.

    They just kick ass lol

  10. #10
    Atomic Punk Raldo's Avatar
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    12.10.17 @ 02:16 PM
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    Default

    Probably would've happened but Eddie paved the way for it to be quicker..
    I like the term 'revolution' that someone said before.
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  11. #11
    Baluchitherium
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    11.25.17 @ 04:30 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by gman6 View Post
    The thing about Eddie is he's an insane player but he does so within the context of some incredibly well written songs. To me that's the difference between him and many of the other gunslingers who may or may not have blown open the 80's.
    Heck yeah, gman6! You nailed it! Insane, near out-of-control playing...and the songs were excellent! Just think: if Eddie played the way he did but didn't write as well as he did, we would have never talked about him as much. In the end, it's all about the songs, and if they have some crazy-ass guitar in it...BONUS!

    "The shit I read on this site." -- Dave's Dreidel (Nov 6th, 2013)

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  12. #12
    Baluchitherium Harpospoke's Avatar
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    12.10.17 @ 07:58 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metal Marc View Post
    I agree that it would have happened anyway. It was in the making and was bubbling up to the surface. Let's not forget the mighty John McLaughlin. He was a great blend of melodicism, precision, and speed. He was shredding before Eddie was.
    I wonder exactly how we define "shredding"?

    Anyone ever hear of Joe Maphis?



    Carlos Montoya?



    How about Joe Pass?



    Then there was Django Reinhardt, Chet Atkins, and of course Andre Segovia and his disciples like John Williams. Oh...and Al Di Meola.

  13. #13
    Atomic Punk CaboChris's Avatar
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    12.09.17 @ 12:23 AM
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    Default

    Let's not forget King David. He was shredding the Harp. I read it in the Bible. If it wasn't for him, there would be no EVH.

  14. #14
    Atomic Punk
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    12.04.17 @ 04:15 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harpospoke View Post
    I wonder exactly how we define "shredding"?
    Shredding:



    See?!? Even a monkey can do it!

    If it wasn't for monkeys, there'd be no EVH.
    I'm FEMALE...Deal with it!

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  15. #15
    Atomic Punk ziggysmalls's Avatar
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    12.10.17 @ 06:47 AM
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    Default

    Would there have been shredders? Yes and no. Some guys like Yngwie, Satch, Vai, etc would have been shredding in their basements or on small stages across the world. Would anybody been listening like all these shredders on You Tube today?

    Probably not.

    Eddie totally changed the acceptance of a guitar soloist. He connected to the average joe or even woman that "wow this guy is doing something really cool even though I don't play guitar." He was like the Neil Peart of drums. He connected to the masses which hasn't happened to Satch, Vai, Malmsteen, Gilbert, Buckethead, etc. Yes those guys are popular in the guitar community but without a Eddie and to a lesser extent Randy in the very early 80's there is no avenue for these guys to get exposed.

    Eddie and the tragic death of Randy pretty much fueled Guitar for the Practicing Musician which was THE outlet for shredding guitar. Guitar was around for serious guitarists but GFTPM catered more to hard rock/metal which was used as the springboard for all these guys career.

    Randy's term was short lived but he was a modern day Jimi or Morrison (in the 80's)whos potential wasn't reached. It made good press for GFTPM and eventually Guitar World. Its no secret that their highest sellers had Eddie and Randy on the cover.

    Mike Varney never would have had the leverage without a publication like GFTPM. Eddie pretty much built that mag so without Eddie, there is no demand for the mag. No mag, shredders back in that day would have been playing in the basement like today.

 

 

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