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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk
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    Default Doctor-assisted death: A father's choice sheds light on national issue

    Ethan Remmel was only 41 when he died on June 13, 2011, barely a year after being diagnosed with terminal colon cancer that quickly spread to his bone.



    The Bellingham, Wash., psychology professor and father of two young sons took a lethal dose of crushed prescription sedatives, becoming one of 255 terminally ill people to exercise that option so far under the state’s 2009 Death with Dignity Act.

    “One of the things that Ethan kept saying is he didn’t want to deteriorate to the point where he couldn’t interact with his kids,” recalls his partner, Grace Wang, 44.

    Now, nearly two years later, the hospital program that aided Remmel is offering an inside look at what it means when a medical center devoted to curing cancer also decides to help people die.

    http://vitals.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...nal-issue?lite
    "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.” -- Gen. George S. Patton

  2. #2
    Atomic Punk
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    12.04.17 @ 04:15 PM
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    Very interesting read, thankyou, Voivod.

    My personal opinion is that people should be allowed to 'die with dignity', if the circumstances warrant it.

    I can't quite get my head around the notion that it is wrong to play God and allow a right-minded person to end their own life if they are terminally ill and in pain / incapacitated - and yet it is perfectly fine to play God every day in our quest to those people alive, often against their will, pumping them full of medication that is sometimes more devastating in its effects than the illness itself.

    I believe that our physical body is the one thing in the world that is actually OURS, and so we should be able to do with it as we see fit, providing that our actions don't negatively impact upon the safety / well-being of others.
    I'm FEMALE...Deal with it!

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  3. #3
    Hang 'Em High
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    12.10.17 @ 08:06 AM
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    Reminds me a bit of Robert Latimer here in Canada

  4. #4
    Atomic Punk MF5150's Avatar
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    12.10.17 @ 12:20 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by dibblekins View Post
    Very interesting read, thankyou, Voivod.

    My personal opinion is that people should be allowed to 'die with dignity', if the circumstances warrant it.

    I can't quite get my head around the notion that it is wrong to play God and allow a right-minded person to end their own life if they are terminally ill and in pain / incapacitated - and yet it is perfectly fine to play God every day in our quest to those people alive, often against their will, pumping them full of medication that is sometimes more devastating in its effects than the illness itself.

    I believe that our physical body is the one thing in the world that is actually OURS, and so we should be able to do with it as we see fit, providing that our actions don't negatively impact upon the safety / well-being of others.

    Agreed 100%.
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  5. #5
    Atomic Punk CaboChris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dibblekins View Post
    Very interesting read, thankyou, Voivod.

    My personal opinion is that people should be allowed to 'die with dignity', if the circumstances warrant it.

    I can't quite get my head around the notion that it is wrong to play God and allow a right-minded person to end their own life if they are terminally ill and in pain / incapacitated - and yet it is perfectly fine to play God every day in our quest to those people alive, often against their will, pumping them full of medication that is sometimes more devastating in its effects than the illness itself.

    I believe that our physical body is the one thing in the world that is actually OURS, and so we should be able to do with it as we see fit, providing that our actions don't negatively impact upon the safety / well-being of others.
    Another one of those issues where religion exerts it's influence and politicians cower.

  6. #6
    Atomic Punk
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    12.04.17 @ 04:15 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaboChris View Post
    Another one of those issues where religion exerts it's influence and politicians cower.
    Indeed.

    Kind of related to this issue was the death this week of British IVF founder, Professor Sir Robert Edwards, who won the Nobel Prize in 2010.

    His being awarded the prize was denounced by the Catholic Church who, in arguing that all conception should be by 'natural', rather than 'artifical' means, claimed that Edwards, “bore a moral responsibility for all subsequent developments in assisted reproduction technology and for all abuses made possible by IVF.”

    I'm curious therefore as to how Catholics view those who were conceived through IVF - are they 'less' human in some way, because their lives were brought about via 'man-made' rather than 'natural' methods? I'm not trying to castigate Catholics by the way - I am genuinely interested.
    I'm FEMALE...Deal with it!

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  7. #7
    Atomic Punk CaboChris's Avatar
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    12.09.17 @ 12:23 AM
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    Every child born is considered a gift from God no matter how it came about but it's the method that The Church has a problem with. Conceiving children can ONLY come about by man and woman joining together the "natural" way if you will and ONLY in marriage. It's the same reasoning why masturbation is considered a Mortal Sin and the no condoms or the pill. One is WASTING their seed that is considered Holy by God. They're very preoccupied with sex and the older I get get the more I can't be bothered with it. I respect their viewpoint though and if you're not Catholic than you're not bound by their authority. Of course, they would love everybody to be influenced by their teaching.
    Last edited by CaboChris; 04.11.13 at 10:22 AM.

  8. #8
    Atomic Punk
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    12.04.17 @ 04:15 PM
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    Yeah, that's what I thought...I just wondered whether they (the Vatican) had thought their argument(s) through fully before denouncing the concept of IVF babies.

    I'd imagine that such an ancient religion sometimes has trouble keeping up with the latest medical and scientific developments, from an ideological (and moralistic) point of view.

    It's also my thinking that if we view God as giving us the brains and the ability to come up with all these scientific break-throughs, then surely we'd be doing Him a dis-service if we didn't use those capabilities..? Especially for the purpose of helping to make people's lives better and more fulfilled (as assisted conception evidently does)?
    Last edited by dibblekins; 04.11.13 at 10:36 AM.
    I'm FEMALE...Deal with it!

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  9. #9
    carpe damn diem billy007's Avatar
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    12.11.17 @ 09:09 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by dibblekins View Post

    His being awarded the prize was denounced by the Catholic Church who, in arguing that all conception should be by 'natural', rather than 'artifical' means, claimed that Edwards, “bore a moral responsibility for all subsequent developments in assisted reproduction technology and for all abuses made possible by IVF.”
    Read the statement again, though. While I'm sure, knowing how the Catholic Church seems to think, that they are not big fans of invitro fertilization, what I'm reading in the statement are their concerns for the potential to abuse invitro fertilization - "hey, let's make all blonde haired babies", or "let's make only white skinned babies", etc. and that by Edwards developing the process, he was the one who needs to take responsibility for possibly setting those wheels in motion.

  10. #10
    Atomic Punk bsbll4's Avatar
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    12.11.17 @ 09:22 AM
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    The Church's main problem with IVF is that life is created in fertilized embryos and then only some of the fertilized eggs are used. The rest are frozen in perpetuity or destroyed.
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

  11. #11
    Atomic Punk
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    Quote Originally Posted by billy007 View Post
    Read the statement again, though. While I'm sure, knowing how the Catholic Church seems to think, that they are not big fans of invitro fertilization, what I'm reading in the statement are their concerns for the potential to abuse invitro fertilization - "hey, let's make all blonde haired babies", or "let's make only white skinned babies", etc. and that by Edwards developing the process, he was the one who needs to take responsibility for possibly setting those wheels in motion.
    Yes, I can see exactly what you're getting at there. And I agree that those are most definitely "abuses" - which is a terrible shame, as IVF in its purest form, doing what Prof. Edwards intended, (he said himself that "having a baby {any baby} is the most wonderful thing in the world", or words to that effect) is, surely, a fantastic achievement by the scientific community.

    And, I suppose, that also begs the question - do we avoid making ANY scientific breakthroughs for fear of what those less scrupulous than ourselves might do with those inventions at a later date?
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  12. #12
    Atomic Punk bsbll4's Avatar
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    12.11.17 @ 09:22 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by dibblekins View Post
    Yes, I can see exactly what you're getting at there. And I agree that those are most definitely "abuses" - which is a terrible shame, as IVF in its purest form, doing what Prof. Edwards intended, (he said himself that "having a baby {any baby} is the most wonderful thing in the world", or words to that effect) is, surely, a fantastic achievement by the scientific community.
    And, I suppose, that also begs the question - do we avoid making ANY scientific breakthroughs for fear of what those less scrupulous than ourselves might do with those inventions at a later date?
    Albert Einstein regretted working on the Manhattan Project and it left him wondering that very thing. There are conspiracy theorists that say that Einstein did solve a "theory of everything" (the next step to E=MC^2) before he died, but he was so scared as to its implications that he destroyed it.
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

  13. #13
    Atomic Punk
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    Yes, I'd heard something along those lines too...

    It's tragic really when you think about it - so many things with wonderful, positive possibilities - and yet the human race is so morally bankrupt that we can't decently handle the responsibilities that come with them.

    'Free will' - who'd have it, eh?
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  14. #14
    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
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    12.11.17 @ 04:47 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaboChris View Post
    Every child born is considered a gift from God no matter how it came about but it's the method that The Church has a problem with. Conceiving children can ONLY come about by man and woman joining together the "natural" way if you will and ONLY in marriage. It's the same reasoning why masturbation is considered a Mortal Sin and the no condoms or the pill. One is WASTING their seed that is considered Holy by God. They're very preoccupied with sex and the older I get get the more I can't be bothered with it. I respect their viewpoint though and if you're not Catholic than you're not bound by their authority. Of course, they would love everybody to be influenced by their teaching.
    Still? Man, you guys need to update your rules a little bit!
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