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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk
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    12.11.17 @ 04:37 PM
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    Default Justice Department memo concludes that the U.S. government can order the killing of..

    Justice Department memo concludes that the U.S. government can order the killing of American citizens

    http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_news...americans?lite
    "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.” -- Gen. George S. Patton

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    Unchained gavs5150's Avatar
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    05.09.15 @ 09:17 PM
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    That is scary!

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    Atomic Punk edwardv's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 09:19 AM
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    I thought the libs were against all that killing stuff?
    EVH 1979: Well, actually it's not much of a vacation, because we run everything ourselves. We design our own album cover, we have to be in the office every day to sign checks - the whole corporation revolves around us. Nothing can be done without our approval. We even have photo approval.

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    01.13.16 @ 05:43 PM
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    The article is a little less scary than the headline... unless you're a senior leader of Al Queda. Then, yeah, probably watch your back.
    Staying Frosty

  5. #5
    Atomic Punk bsbll4's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 09:24 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burning Tires View Post
    The article is a little less scary than the headline... unless you're a senior leader of Al Queda. Then, yeah, probably watch your back.
    That's not exactly true. What this memo proves is that the US government can assassinate its own citizens if it feels threatened. Chew on that for a moment. There is nothing legally stopping them from killing anyone as long as someone, somewhere thinks you are a threat.

    In fact, the burden to prove you aren't a threat is on you, not them. As a citizen of this country, you are entitled to due process. This memo basically says, "eh, fuck the Constitution. We're the government, we do what we want, not what the Constitution tells us we can do."

    THAT is scary beyond belief.
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

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    Atomic Punk bsbll4's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 09:24 AM
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    By the way, in that other thread a week ago where we were discussing Obama screening top generals on their willingness to kill US citizens, there were a few of you that were accusing us of being conspiracy theorists or idiots for believing it (despite the fact that it has already happened).

    Well...do you believe us now?
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

  7. #7
    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 06:34 AM
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    We are not a tyrannicaly state...yet.

    But the scary thought is that we have put laws into place that if the President of the United States wanted to make us a police state, he or she could do so overnight.

    At some point, one of them is going to do it, it is human nature. How our elected officials can be so incredibly stupid is beyond my comprehension.
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  8. #8
    Atomic Punk bklynboy68's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 09:35 AM
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    Default Senators threaten 'confrontation' with Obama nominees over drone concerns

    Senators from both parties may be on a collision course with the White House over its top national security nominations, because of concerns over the Obama administration's drone program.

    A bipartisan group of 11 senators wrote a letter to President Obama Monday asking for "any and all legal opinions" that describe the basis for the authority to "deliberately kill American citizens."

    The questions come in advance of CIA director nominee John Brennan's confirmation hearing Thursday before the Senate intelligence committee. Several of the authors of the drone letter sit on that committee. Obama's nominee for Defense secretary, Chuck Hagel, also had his confirmation hearing last week.

    The letter Monday made a blunt threat suggesting that withholding information on drones could imperil those nominations.

    "The executive branch's cooperation on this matter will help avoid an unnecessary confrontation that could affect the Senate's consideration of nominees for national security positions," the senators wrote.

    As the letter was released, one Justice Department document surfaced in news reports describing the administration's drone-attack authority.

    As first reported Monday night by NBC News, the memo says it is legal for the government to kill U.S. citizens abroad if it believes they are senior Al Qaeda leaders continually engaged in operations aimed at killing Americans -- even if there is no intelligence pointing to an active plot against America.

    The 16-page document says that delaying action against individuals continually planning to kill Americans would create an unacceptably high risk. It adds that the threat posed by Al Qaeda and its associated forces demands a broader concept of when a person continually planning terror attacks presents an imminent threat.

    It's unclear whether that will satisfy lawmakers' concerns. Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., chairwoman of the intelligence committee, said in a statement Tuesday that the document was already provided to the committee last year.

    "The committee continues to seek the actual legal opinions by the Department of Justice that provide details not outlined in this particular white paper," she said. Feinstein was not among the senators who signed the letter to Obama Monday.

    Under Obama, the U.S. drone program has ramped up dramatically. It has become one of the most important tools in the administration's counterterrorism campaign -- particularly in Pakistan, but also in the expanding fronts of the war against Al Qaeda and its affiliates. The senators' questions follow a 2011 drone strike in Yemen that killed two Americans -- Anwar al-Awlaki and Samir Khan.

    While Awlaki was considered a powerful terror operative for Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, he was never charged. In their letter Monday, the senators said they believe there are "circumstances" where a U.S. president can use "lethal force" against Americans who "choose to take up arms" against their country, "just as President Lincoln had the authority to direct Union troops to fire upon Confederate forces during the Civil War."

    But they said "it is vitally important" for Congress and the public to understand how the administration interprets the limits on that power. They complained that the administration has ignored prior requests for legal opinions from the Justice Department.

    Brennan, a vocal supporter of the drone program and other controversial counterterrorism tools dating back to the George W. Bush administration, is facing a level of criticism from Democrats that no other Obama nominee has encountered. Eight Democrats and three Republicans penned the letter to Obama Monday. One of them, Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Ore., has previously pressed Brennan on the drone issue.

    Another, Sen. Mark Udall, D-Colo., said last week he was "deeply disappointed" coming out of a meeting with Brennan. He claimed the White House counterterrorism adviser was "unprepared" to discuss a recent report on the CIA detention and interrogation program.

    The Associated Press contributed to this report.


    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...#ixzz2K33DcKry
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  9. #9
    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 09:10 AM
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    I've been speaking about this for a while. Giving the President authority to kill citizens without due process or providing evidence is very scary, and as I mentioned in the right to bear arms thread, a federal judge upheld this and it's secrecy as lawful.

    A couple things. One, you must be a senior operational leader of Al Qaeda OR an "associate force". Well WTF does that mean? Only the executive branch has to know, because it solely has the power to label. (The memo defines it as a group "co-belligerent under the laws of war," whatever that means.)

    Two, you must be an imminent threat, though no intelligence must exist that there is an imminent threat to the US. In other words, we say you must be an imminent threat, but you don't have to be. In fact, according to the memo, being a current or former senior member of Al Qaida or associate force is in and of itself an imminent threat to the US.

    Three, this sentence: "This paper does not attempt to determine the minimum requirements necessary to render such an operation lawful, nor does it assess what might be required to render a lethal operation against a U.S. citizen lawful in other circumstances." In other words, the President can kill US citizens for other and/or lesser reasons.

    Four, this sentence: "[A] lethal operation in a foreign nation would be consistent with international legal principles of sovereignty and neutrality if it were conducted, for example, with the consent ofthe host nation's government or after a determination that the host nation is unable or unwilling to suppress the threat posed by the individual targeted." In other words, it's lawful in foreign nations under two scenarios: 1) the host nation is willing to let us enter, and 2) the host nation is unwilling to let us enter.

    Five, the paragraph that starts like this, "Any operation of the sort discussed here would be conducted in a foreign country..." Which is then followed by a paragraph that starts, "In addition, the United States retains its authority to use force against al-Qa'ida
    and associated forces outside the area of active hostilities when it targets a senior operational leader of the enemy forces who is actively engaged in planning operations to kill Americans. The United States is currently in a non-international, armed conflict with al-Qa'ida and its associated forces," and goes on to say, "None of the three branches of the U.S. Government has identified a strict geographical limit on the permissible scope of the AUMF's [Authorized Use of Military Force] authorization." There is also a specific rejection of limiting strikes to "zone[s] of active hostilities." In other words, even though the infeasible capture clause seems to rule out domestic strikes, if the President solely deems domestic capture "infeasible," the strikes would be lawful on US soil.

    Six, outside of this memo, let's not forget that after the first debate, when an Obama loss seemed possible, the administration "accelerated" work on making clearer, more defined rules on drone strikes and Presidential "'kill lists'". From the NY Times, “'There was concern that the levers might no longer be in our hands,' said one official, speaking on condition of anonymity. With a continuing debate about the proper limits of drone strikes, Mr. Obama did not want to leave an 'amorphous' program to his successor, the official said. The effort, which would have been rushed to completion by January had Mr. Romney won, will now be finished at a more leisurely pace, the official said." In other words, Obama is the one man we should trust to assassinate US citizens.

    This is a turning point, folks. Don't think it's not.
    Last edited by lovemachine97(Version 2); 02.05.13 at 10:42 AM.

  10. #10
    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 06:34 AM
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    I have been accused of being an alarmist in another thread on here, and believe me, I hope I am wrong, but the erosion of our freedom from government intrusion over the last twelve years frightens me to death about the country our children will be living in.
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  11. #11
    Atomic Punk ziggysmalls's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 08:52 AM
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    Praise be to Obama

  12. #12
    Good Enough VH Wahoo's Avatar
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    Now what we need is for phillybri to come on here and tell us that we're all making mountains out of molehills....right bri?

    Bumper sticker on my rocket's ass...

  13. #13
    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 09:10 AM
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    The President authorizing agents to torture foreign enemies under Bush? Outrage! War criminal! The devil!

    The President giving himself the power to unilaterally assassinate US citizens whenever and wherever he wants for any reason he wants under Obama? *crickets*

  14. #14
    Atomic Punk bklynboy68's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 09:35 AM
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    Default City in Virginia Becomes First to Pass Anti-Drone Legislation

    Resolution bans all municipal agencies from buying or leasing drones


    Charlottesville, Va., has become the first city in the United States to formally pass an anti-drone resolution.

    The resolution, passed Monday, "calls on the United States Congress and the General Assembly of the Commonwealth of Virginia to adopt legislation prohibiting information obtained from the domestic use of drones from being introduced into a Federal or State court," and "pledges to abstain from similar uses with city-owned, leased, or borrowed drones."


    The resolution passed by a 3-2 vote and was brought to the city council by activist David Swanson and the Rutherford Institute, a progressive civil liberties group based in the city. The measure also endorses a proposed two-year moratorium on drones in Virginia.

    Councilmember Dede Smith, who voted in favor of the bill, says that drones are "pretty clearly a threat to our constitutional right to privacy."

    "If we don't get out ahead of it to establish some guidelines for how drones are used, they will be used in a very invasive way and we'll be left to try and pick up the pieces," she says.



    The passed resolution is much less restrictive than the draft Swanson originally introduced, which would have sought to declare the city a "No Drone Zone" and would have tried to banned all drones over Charlottesville airspace "to the extent compatible with federal law." The draft would have also banned all Charlottesville municipal agencies from buying, leasing, borrowing, or testing any drones.

    Councilmember Dave Norris says the city has a "long tradition of promoting civil liberties."

    "It's just part of our culture here," he says.

    Charlottesville is located 120 miles southwest of Washington, D.C., and has a population of about 43,000. The city is home to the University of Virginia, which has not tried to obtain a waiver to test drones from the Federal Aviation Administration.


    The move earned praise from the Electronic Privacy Information Center. Amie Stepanovich, a lawyer with the group, says that the "Charlottesville resolution demonstrates that people care about protecting their civil liberties and Fourth Amendment rights and are willing to devote the time necessary to closely examine this issue."

    "Lawmakers should be looking at [drone privacy] issues now in order to ensure that there are safeguards in place to protect individual privacy from these invasive technologies," she says.


    Smith admits that the final legislation won't do anything to prevent federal- or state-operated drones from operating over Charlottesville's skies, but that the symbolic move could push other cities to follow suit.

    "With a lot of these resolutions, although they don't have a lot of teeth to them, they can inspire other governments to pass similar measures," she says. "You can get a critical mass and then it does have influence. One doesn't do much, but a thousand of them might. We want this on [federal and state lawmakers'] radars."


    Vice Mayor Kristin Szakos, who voted against the resolution, says she "can imagine ways in which drones might be used for positive things" and that the move was premature.

    "I think drones have been used for bad things, but it's like banning airplanes because they can drop bombs," she says. "At this point, the city isn't even talking about using drones. It seems premature to me to ban them altogether."


    http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/...e-legislation-
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    "But being number one doesn’t really mean jack fuck all. We sold twice as many records as other records that year (1984) that landed in the Number One position." ~Eddie Van Halen

  15. #15
    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 06:34 AM
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    I have a question, where in the fuck is the ACLU while all of these laws infringing our freedoms have been passed?

    Maybe I missed it, but I haven't heard a peep.

    Lesbians not feeling welcome at prom, ACLU is all over it, but hells bells, detaining and assassinating American citizens without judicial process, as said before, crickets.
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