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  1. #1
    Hang 'Em High
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    12.14.17 @ 12:16 AM
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    Default Smokers and the obese -- Should they die early ? ?

    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...01-26-10-03-12

    Insurance Death Panels ??

    Jan 26, 10:03 AM EST

    Do penalties for smokers and the obese make sense?

    By MIKE STOBBE
    AP Medical Writer

    From an economist's perspective, there would be less reason to grouse about unhealthy behaviors by smokers, obese people, motorcycle riders who eschew helmets and other health sinners if they agreed to pay the financial price for their choices.

    That's the rationale for a provision in the Affordable Care Act - "Obamacare" to its detractors - that starting next year allows health insurers to charge smokers buying individual policies up to 50 percent higher premiums. A 60-year-old could wind up paying nearly $5,100 on top of premiums.

    The new law doesn't allow insurers to charge more for people who are overweight, however.

    It's tricky to play the insurance game with overweight people, because science is still sorting things out. While obesity is clearly linked with serious health problems and early death, the evidence is not as clear about people who are just overweight.

  2. #2
    Atomic Punk
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    12.04.17 @ 04:15 PM
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    I smoke - not a great many - but I do partake. I know the health implications and I pay more on any additional health insurance (outside the NHS) that I take out.

    The danger of all of this, however, is that insurance people are sneaky little blighters, all too willing to find and exploit every 'health-related' issue that they can...

    Meat-eaters, beware - you're next!
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  3. #3
    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
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    12.14.17 @ 07:27 AM
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    I thought being overweight was pretty simple. You are bringing more calories in than your are burning. Burn more calories than your bring in and you will lose weight.

    It isn't rocket science. If a persons BMI is over a certain amount, I see no problem charging them more for insurance, unless they can prove it is due to thyroid or some other legitimate medical condition.

    I don't want to hear "I inherited bad genes" as an excuse.
    Taylor Swift is nice to look at. Adele can sing.

    Emperor Brett - "I can't believe you guys are analyzing song-by-song Van Halen III? What next, analyzing the script of Stroker Ace looking for some shred of Citizen Kane?"

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  4. #4
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    12.14.17 @ 07:24 AM
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Dreidel View Post
    I thought being overweight was pretty simple. You are bringing more calories in than your are burning. Burn more calories than your bring in and you will lose weight.

    It isn't rocket science. If a persons BMI is over a certain amount, I see no problem charging them more for insurance, unless they can prove it is due to thyroid or some other legitimate medical condition.

    I don't want to hear "I inherited bad genes" as an excuse.
    slippery slope.

  5. #5
    Atomic Punk
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    slippery slope.
    'Fraid so.

    Insurance companies are the devil incarnate when it comes to stuff like this. Believe me, if you have the time and resources at your disposal (as insurance companies undoubtedly do), you can find scientific proof to demonstrate that virtually EVERY ailment is due to a 'lifestyle choice' of some sort and ratchet up the premiums accordingly...

    As I said before: 'Meat-Eaters Beware' - all manner of cancers and heart problems can be attributed to this 'lifestyle choice'...Even exercising - apparently a 'good thing' - can be blamed for joint problems, arthritis, heart-attacks, and being more at risk of being run-over by passing vehicles - so the more athletic amongst us needn't think they're safe from the scourge of the Demon Insurance Company!

    It's only a matter of time...
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  6. #6
    Atomic Punk ziggysmalls's Avatar
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    12.14.17 @ 07:27 AM
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    Well I work out 4-5 days a week. Run, do the eliptical, do free weights. Run 5k's throughout the summer, maybe a 10k and some Marathon relays. I am 250lb. I don't eat great but I don't eat like shit either. I am just a big guy even though my dad weighs 140lbs and my mom 120lbs so it can't be genes.

    So should I be penalized? I am not 250 body builder shape however I can do a 5k in under 30 minutes while being almost 44 and smokes to boot.

  7. #7
    Atomic Punk
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    Better hope you win the lottery, Zigs. You're an insurance company's dream come true! In fact, I can see them rubbing their hands together with glee as we speak!
    I'm FEMALE...Deal with it!

    "Whatever you do, wherever you go, there you are..." Edward Van Halen 1986

    "You spend the first part of your life trying to make your mark, and the second part just trying to cover up your tracks"... Weesfreewheelin, 2012

    "Life's too short to stuff a mushroom"... Shirley Conran, 1975

    "You turn if you want to...The LADY is NOT for turning!"...Margaret
    Thatcher, 1980


  8. #8
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    12.14.17 @ 07:24 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziggysmalls View Post
    Well I work out 4-5 days a week. Run, do the eliptical, do free weights. Run 5k's throughout the summer, maybe a 10k and some Marathon relays. I am 250lb. I don't eat great but I don't eat like shit either. I am just a big guy even though my dad weighs 140lbs and my mom 120lbs so it can't be genes.

    So should I be penalized? I am not 250 body builder shape however I can do a 5k in under 30 minutes while being almost 44 and smokes to boot.
    this is the issue with just using BMI. Someone who's in good shape like you will look as unhealthy as a fatass like me. The other issue is that someone who's thin and drinks like a fish will look "healthy" using BMI but a pro athlete will be "overweight". For instance, Lebron James (a 6 foot 7 basketball player who might be the best athlete to ever play the game) weighs 255 pounds and the BMI would call him overweight. Yeah, that guys needs to lose weight.

  9. #9
    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
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    Default

    That's easy to overcome.

    My BMI came in high based upon height and weight for my life insurance exam, but I had them come out and do a fat percentage test, and I was fine. Muscles and penis weigh more than fat.

    BMI should be a guide, but someone can be 6'3", 250 lbs and be in much better shape than someone 6'3" and a buck sixty.
    Taylor Swift is nice to look at. Adele can sing.

    Emperor Brett - "I can't believe you guys are analyzing song-by-song Van Halen III? What next, analyzing the script of Stroker Ace looking for some shred of Citizen Kane?"

    David Lee Roth did the impossible. He made Van Halen better. Deal with it!

    Preferred pronouns: he/him/his

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  10. #10
    Atomic Punk ziggysmalls's Avatar
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    12.14.17 @ 07:27 AM
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    Well my BMI says I am obese which if you look at me, you will say I am stocky.

    My legs are all muscle but I do have a belly.

  11. #11
    Atomic Punk
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Dreidel View Post
    That's easy to overcome.

    My BMI came in high based upon height and weight for my life insurance exam, but I had them come out and do a fat percentage test, and I was fine. Muscles and penis weigh more than fat.

    BMI should be a guide, but someone can be 6'3", 250 lbs and be in much better shape than someone 6'3" and a buck sixty.
    You meant "muscles and PENS" of course - being a businessman, I expect you have to have a lot of writing paraphernalia upon your person. And, yes, I'd imagine that, all in all, they do weigh a fair amount.
    I'm FEMALE...Deal with it!

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    "You spend the first part of your life trying to make your mark, and the second part just trying to cover up your tracks"... Weesfreewheelin, 2012

    "Life's too short to stuff a mushroom"... Shirley Conran, 1975

    "You turn if you want to...The LADY is NOT for turning!"...Margaret
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  12. #12
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Dreidel View Post
    That's easy to overcome.

    My BMI came in high based upon height and weight for my life insurance exam, but I had them come out and do a fat percentage test, and I was fine. Muscles and penis weigh more than fat.

    BMI should be a guide, but someone can be 6'3", 250 lbs and be in much better shape than someone 6'3" and a buck sixty.
    of course.

    I think the bmi thing really gets overstated. Every year at my physical I'm told I need to use lose weight (doc is right) but I don't drink, I don't smoke, I've never used drugs, don't have blood pressure of cholesterol issues - dare I say I'm gonna cost the health care system a whole lot less than the vast majority of "healthy" men.

  13. #13
    Hang 'Em High
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    12.10.17 @ 08:06 AM
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    Unhealty lifestyles are related to socio-economic status, you eat what you can afford and if you work a 40-60 hour work week at a shit job you haven't got time to cook and clean every night. Smoking is most common amongst the bottom rungs of society too, and thus this can be easily construed as another tax against the poor.

    I'm not saying this is ethical or right, I really don't know how I feel about it to be honest, but my point is these issues are by no means a rational choice for each individual and presuming we all have the means to pick and chose our lifestyles is a bit idealistic and frankly inaccurate.

  14. #14
    Atomic Punk ziggysmalls's Avatar
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    I feel like being a shit stirrer today.

    So if we are looking at charging more for fat people and smokers, how about women between the ages of 18 and 45? I don't have stats but I would bet that giving birth is probably the costliest expense on our medical community for women between those ages. My friend had a recent birth and insured portion was 35k. Another person I know lost his wife in their childbirth and their bill amounted to over 250k.

    The vast majority of men I know have never had major surgery in this age demographic however I will say that at least 75% of the women I know have had at least one child birth. I am guessing that if there are maybe 75 million women in child bearing age, it probably puts a bit of a burden on our health insurance with the smokers and fat people.

  15. #15
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziggysmalls View Post
    I feel like being a shit stirrer today.

    So if we are looking at charging more for fat people and smokers, how about women between the ages of 18 and 45? I don't have stats but I would bet that giving birth is probably the costliest expense on our medical community for women between those ages. My friend had a recent birth and insured portion was 35k. Another person I know lost his wife in their childbirth and their bill amounted to over 250k.

    The vast majority of men I know have never had major surgery in this age demographic however I will say that at least 75% of the women I know have had at least one child birth. I am guessing that if there are maybe 75 million women in child bearing age, it probably puts a bit of a burden on our health insurance with the smokers and fat people.
    this is true, but it's kind of important for the contiunation of our species that we don't charge women (and only women) the full cost of child birth.

 

 

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