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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk
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    12.11.17 @ 04:37 PM
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    Default Women in Combat Okayed by the Pentagon

    Pentagon Chief & Democrat Leon Panetta has lifted a ban that prohibited women from serving in combat, opening up thousands of front-line positions.

    The groundbreaking move overturns a 1994 rule that banned women from being assigned to smaller ground combat units. However, in recent years the demands of two wars pushed women into jobs as military police, medics, and intelligence officers that were sometimes part of, if not formally, units on the front lines. Women compromise about 14% of the 1.4 million active military personnel.

    During his Pentagon tenure, Secy. Panetta has been pushing for more equality inside the military. He confirmed the end of “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell,” allowing gay troops to serve openly in the military.

    After the announcement, Armed Services Chair Sen. Carl Levin (D-MI) said he supports Panetta’s move because “it reflects the reality of 21st century military operations.”

    According the the AP, Panetta’s decision sets January 2016 as the deadline for the military to “seek special exceptions if they believe any positions must remain closed to women.”
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  2. #2
    Atomic Punk
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    "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.” -- Gen. George S. Patton

  3. #3
    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
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    12.16.17 @ 06:36 AM
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    It makes me a fossil, but I just don't agree with it, for a multitude of reasons.

    The main one being, and no offense meant ladies, but I haven't met a single woman in my entire life that I would want to be in combat with.

    The average woman is much smaller, weaker and slower than the average man. It is just a simple fact. They say they won't be lowering the standard for women to qualify for combat duty, and honestly, I just don't believe them when they say that.
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  4. #4
    Atomic Punk ziggysmalls's Avatar
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    12.16.17 @ 08:21 AM
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    I served in the Navy so keep in mind we were not the most physically fit however the majority of women couldn't do the physical readiness test as well as the men. Higher times, lower push up and sit ups. Hell they didn't even do real push ups. Now is this important on a ship? Not really but I would think if I was in a platoon on patrol it might be important. Especially when you are carrying 80lbs of equipment on you.

    There is no good that can come of this. I mean its easy enough to persuade public opinion by showing a dead GI. Think about how bad Somalia would have been if instead of men being dragged around, it was women? Instead of seeing that Nicolas Berg getting his head cut off on the internet, it was a woman. Instead of seeing thousands of GI's walking around showing their battle wounds, we will now see women. Sorry call me old fashioned but unless our country is being invaded, they shouldn't be put into this line of work.

    All this will do is weaken the will of the American people when we are fighting a war. Could even be a just war. I also believes it can hurt unit effectiveness because how will a soldier feel when he sees a woman blown in half? We are conditioned for men to die in wars. Not women

  5. #5
    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
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    12.16.17 @ 06:36 AM
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    Yeah, no good will come of it in my opinion.

    I saw one woman praising it so that women could better advance their military careers if they have combat time. She said it is hard to become a general without leading a battalion, etc.

    Although true, the point of the military is not for a career, the main purpose of the United States military is to kill as many people as quickly and efficiently as possible with minimal American casualties. I know that sounds tough, but that is it's purpose.
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  6. #6
    Atomic Punk bsbll4's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 12:23 PM
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    Besides the physical aspect of it, what happens if there is a budding relationship between the female soldier and a male soldier in her squad? Wouldn't that make it difficult to make the split second decision to do what's right for the squad VS what will save her life?

    I guess if the military signed off on it then they must have already gone through those scenarios, but it seems risky IMO.

    I'd be curious for one of our resident military Linker's opinion on this.
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  7. #7
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    05.11.15 @ 11:56 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziggysmalls View Post
    I served in the Navy so keep in mind we were not the most physically fit however the majority of women couldn't do the physical readiness test as well as the men. Higher times, lower push up and sit ups. Hell they didn't even do real push ups. Now is this important on a ship? Not really but I would think if I was in a platoon on patrol it might be important. Especially when you are carrying 80lbs of equipment on you.

    There is no good that can come of this. I mean its easy enough to persuade public opinion by showing a dead GI. Think about how bad Somalia would have been if instead of men being dragged around, it was women? Instead of seeing that Nicolas Berg getting his head cut off on the internet, it was a woman. Instead of seeing thousands of GI's walking around showing their battle wounds, we will now see women. Sorry call me old fashioned but unless our country is being invaded, they shouldn't be put into this line of work.

    All this will do is weaken the will of the American people when we are fighting a war. Could even be a just war. I also believes it can hurt unit effectiveness because how will a soldier feel when he sees a woman blown in half? We are conditioned for men to die in wars. Not women
    I agree with all of this 100%. Additionally - and maybe I'm "old-fashioned" too - but men and women are not exchangeable. They are equal but different, and I strongly believe that one role that men have is to defend and protect their women. Of course women are capable and intelligent, but I think it is a disgrace that men of this country would let women die to protect them.
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  8. #8
    Atomic Punk ziggysmalls's Avatar
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    12.16.17 @ 08:21 AM
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    Another item that isn't discussed is how women put in forward roles affects mission readiness. The Navy has had issues with women getting pregnant before known deployments. So what happens is that they stay home while the affected departments have to suffer by not having enough manpower. Of course some of these pregnancies are done for the right reasons but many are not. I met probably at least a dozen women in my time who told me that they got pregnant to avoid sea time.

    This will happen when a Army, Marine or National Guard unit gets order to deploy out to Afghanistan or somewhere else. Meanwhile the guys and women who get to go and play in the sandbox will be shorthanded for a year.

  9. #9
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    12.16.17 @ 10:37 AM
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    Canada implemented this about 20 years ago. Don't see the harm here.

  10. #10
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    Guess I'm sexist. I'll never believe this is appropriate.

  11. #11
    Master Bluesman Elwood P.'s Avatar
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    12.16.17 @ 06:47 AM
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    Are they going to be held to the same standards/requirements as men or are exceptions going to be made? I know what the rhetoric is but . .
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  12. #12
    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
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    12.16.17 @ 06:36 AM
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    I think exceptions will be made, and the average strength, endurance, and speed of the American soldier will decrease because of it.

    Just me, but I don't see a reason to do this.
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  13. #13
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Do those who are against have a similar issue with female cops, firefighters, etc?

  14. #14
    Summer Nights in Cabo SNIC's Avatar
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    10.19.17 @ 06:44 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsbll4 View Post
    Besides the physical aspect of it, what happens if there is a budding relationship between the female soldier and a male soldier in her squad? Wouldn't that make it difficult to make the split second decision to do what's right for the squad VS what will save her life?

    I guess if the military signed off on it then they must have already gone through those scenarios, but it seems risky IMO.

    I'd be curious for one of our resident military Linker's opinion on this.
    As one of the resident military Linkers, retired as of January 1st, I will field this question.

    I say give women an opportunity as long as they can meet the same requirements currently in place for men. The standards should not be lowered. Combat troops need to be physically tough.

    As far as relationships go, that can not only be an issue with male/female but also with same-sex relationships. Especially with "don't ask, don't tell" repealed. Physical relationships aside, friendships can even be an issue when it comes to making the best decision in a combat situation. Combat troops need to be mentally tough.

    As long as the person exhibits, and can exercise, the mental and physical toughness required to perform the mission, then I would support it.





    Ok, now the chivalrous side of me says no! Not because I don't think a woman can do it, but because I think a lady should be treated like a lady. Not put out there to get shot at.

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    Eruption DiveBomb's Avatar
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    05.11.15 @ 11:56 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    Do those who are against have a similar issue with female cops, firefighters, etc?
    Interesting question. For me this is a gray issue, not black and white. While I'm thoroughly against women in combat, I'm not sure how I feel about women cops and firefighters. There's just a part of me that doesn't think it's appropriate for women to put themselves in danger when men are able to step up to the task. Then there's the other part of me that can't stomach the idea that a woman's place is being quiet and safe in a corner and cooking meals with kids running around. I guess I'm basing my opinion off a gut feeling rather than a logical argument (don't we all do that!!). And I'm a 22 year old female, for the record, so I don't think I'm the type to be chauvinistic.
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