Follow us on...
Follow us on Twitter Follow us on Facebook Watch us on YouTube
Register
Results 1 to 11 of 11
  1. #1
    Atomic Punk
    Join Date
    01.29.02
    Age
    49
    Location
    somewhere over the rainbow
    Posts
    22,946
    Last Online

    12.11.17 @ 04:37 PM
    Likes
    842
    Liked 1,229 Times in 448 Posts

    Default Carbon dioxide emissions in the U.S. are at their lowest level in 20 years.

    A Fracking Good Story
    Carbon dioxide emissions in the U.S. are at their lowest level in 20 years. It’s not because of wind or solar power.

    Weather conditions around the world this summer have provided ample fodder for the global warming debate. Droughts and heat waves are a harbinger of our future, carbon cuts are needed now more than ever, and yet meaningful policies have not been enacted.

    But, beyond this well-trodden battlefield, something amazing has happened: Carbon-dioxide emissions in the United States have dropped to their lowest level in 20 years. Estimating on the basis of data from the US Energy Information Agency from the first five months of 2012, this year’s expected CO2 emissions have declined by more than 800 million tons, or 14 percent from their peak in 2007.

    The cause is an unprecedented switch to natural gas, which emits 45 percent less carbon per energy unit. The U.S. used to generate about half its electricity from coal, and roughly 20 percent from gas. Over the past five years, those numbers have changed, first slowly and now dramatically: In April of this year, coal’s share in power generation plummeted to just 32 percent, on par with gas.

    America’s rapid switch to natural gas is the result of three decades of technological innovation, particularly the development of hydraulic fracturing, or “fracking,” which has opened up large new resources of previously inaccessible shale gas. Despite some legitimate concerns about safety, it is hard to overstate the overwhelming benefits.

    For starters, fracking has caused gas prices to drop dramatically. Adjusted for inflation, natural gas has not been this cheap for the past 35 years, with the price this year three to five times lower than it was in the mid-2000s. And, while a flagging economy may explain a small portion of the drop in U.S. carbon emissions, the EIA emphasizes that the major explanation is natural gas.

    The reduction is even more impressive when one considers that 57 million additional energy consumers were added to the U.S. population over the past two decades. Indeed, U.S. carbon emissions have dropped about 20 percent per capita, and are now at their lowest level since Dwight D. Eisenhower left the White House in 1961.

    David Victor, an energy expert at UC-San Diego, estimates that the shift from coal to natural gas has reduced U.S. emissions by 400 to 500 megatons CO2 per year. To put that number in perspective, it is about twice the total effect of the Kyoto Protocol on carbon emissions in the rest of the world, including the European Union.

    It is tempting to believe that renewable energy sources are responsible for emissions reductions, but the numbers clearly say otherwise. Accounting for a reduction of 50 Mt of CO2 per year, America’s 30,000 wind turbines reduce emissions by just one-10th the amount that natural gas does. Biofuels reduce emissions by only 10 megatons, and solar panels by a paltry three megatons.

    This flies in the face of conventional thinking, which continues to claim that mandating carbon reductions—through cap-and-trade or a carbon tax—is the only way to combat climate change.

    But, based on Europe’s experience, such policies are precisely the wrong way to address global warming. Since 1990, the EU has heavily subsidized solar and wind energy at a cost of more than $20 billion annually. Yet its per capita CO2 emissions have fallen by less than half of the reduction achieved in the U.S.—even in percentage terms, the U.S. is now doing better.

    Because of broad European skepticism about fracking, there is no gas miracle in the EU, while the abundance of heavily subsidized renewables has caused overachievement of the CO2 target. Along with the closure of German nuclear power stations, this has led, ironically, to a resurgence of coal.

    Well-meaning U.S. politicians have likewise shown how not to tackle global warming with subsidies and tax breaks. The relatively small reduction in emissions achieved through wind power costs more than $3.3 billion annually, and far smaller reductions from ethanol (biofuels) and solar panels cost at least $8.5 and $3 billion annually.

    Estimates suggest that using carbon taxes to achieve a further 330-megaton CO2 reduction in the EU would cost $250 billion per year. Meanwhile, the fracking bonanza in the U.S. not only delivers a much greater reduction for free, but also creates long-term social benefits through lower energy costs.

    The amazing truth is that fracking has succeeded where Kyoto and carbon taxes have failed. As shown in a study by the Breakthrough Institute, fracking was built on substantial government investment in technological innovation for three decades.

    Climate economists repeatedly have pointed out that such energy innovation is the most effective climate solution, because it is the surest way to drive the price of future green energy sources below that of fossil fuels. By contrast, subsidizing current, ineffective solar power or ethanol mostly wastes money while benefiting special interests.

    Fracking is not a panacea, but it really is by far this decade’s best green-energy option.
    "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.” -- Gen. George S. Patton

  2. #2
    Atomic Punk edwardv's Avatar
    Join Date
    12.13.01
    Age
    59
    Location
    hanover pennsylvania
    Posts
    10,031
    Favorite VH Album

    diver down
    Favorite VH Song

    drop dead legs
    Last Online

    12.12.17 @ 05:40 PM
    Likes
    4,479
    Liked 2,383 Times in 1,487 Posts


    Premium Member

    Default

    Come on you know we have an agreement with Opec since the 70s to not produce or explore for any more oil in the USA. You can thank Nixon for that.
    EVH 1979: Well, actually it's not much of a vacation, because we run everything ourselves. We design our own album cover, we have to be in the office every day to sign checks - the whole corporation revolves around us. Nothing can be done without our approval. We even have photo approval.

  3. #3
    Atomic Punk bsbll4's Avatar
    Join Date
    02.18.03
    Age
    34
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    8,634
    Favorite VH Album

    Van Halen/ADKOT
    Favorite VH Song

    Hot For Teacher
    Last Online

    12.12.17 @ 02:48 PM
    Likes
    566
    Liked 2,218 Times in 1,118 Posts


    Premium Member

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by edwardv View Post
    Come on you know we have an agreement with Opec since the 70s to not produce or explore for any more oil in the USA. You can thank Nixon for that.
    Wait...what?

    Companies are exploring for oil all the time here the states. North Dakota is booming because of it.

    Nixon tried prices controls...which had an obvious outcome in supply shortages and lines at the pump.
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

  4. #4
    Eruption gabby gabbster's Avatar
    Join Date
    08.06.01
    Posts
    1,206
    Last Online

    12.01.17 @ 09:52 AM
    Likes
    9
    Liked 33 Times in 27 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by voivod View Post
    A Fracking Good Story
    Carbon dioxide emissions in the U.S. are at their lowest level in 20 years. It’s not because of wind or solar power.

    The cause is an unprecedented switch to natural gas,
    And yet you have big coal companies in parts of WV and KY telling people that it's Obama's fault (i.e. regulations) for the loss of jobs in the coal industry..when it's because of the price of natural gas.

  5. #5
    Atomic Punk bsbll4's Avatar
    Join Date
    02.18.03
    Age
    34
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    8,634
    Favorite VH Album

    Van Halen/ADKOT
    Favorite VH Song

    Hot For Teacher
    Last Online

    12.12.17 @ 02:48 PM
    Likes
    566
    Liked 2,218 Times in 1,118 Posts


    Premium Member

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gabby gabbster View Post
    And yet you have big coal companies in parts of WV and KY telling people that it's Obama's fault (i.e. regulations) for the loss of jobs in the coal industry..when it's because of the price of natural gas.
    It's the environmental regulations that make the coal prices so high (and therefor uncompetitive).
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

  6. #6
    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
    Join Date
    01.10.05
    Age
    47
    Location
    Kate Upton's Closet
    Posts
    37,868
    Favorite VH Album

    Alex, Dave, Ed and Mike
    Favorite VH Song

    The songs with Ed on them
    Last Online

    12.12.17 @ 05:27 PM
    Likes
    3,500
    Liked 18,115 Times in 8,948 Posts

    Default

    Natural gas is preferable to coal.

    It's unfortunate for those who work in coal, but we have to think big picture.

    Trust me, they would be mad at Bush, Reagan, FDR, Lincoln, or Jesus Christ himself if he was President, it has nothing to do with Obama himself and just the seat he is in.
    Taylor Swift is nice to look at. Adele can sing.

    Emperor Brett - "I can't believe you guys are analyzing song-by-song Van Halen III? What next, analyzing the script of Stroker Ace looking for some shred of Citizen Kane?"

    David Lee Roth did the impossible. He made Van Halen better. Deal with it!

    Preferred pronouns: he/him/his

    Hurricane Halen - Let's all gingery touch our sword tips!!!

    DONATE TO THE LINKS YA CHEAP BASTARDS!!!!

  7. #7
    Eruption gabby gabbster's Avatar
    Join Date
    08.06.01
    Posts
    1,206
    Last Online

    12.01.17 @ 09:52 AM
    Likes
    9
    Liked 33 Times in 27 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bsbll4 View Post
    It's the environmental regulations that make the coal prices so high (and therefor uncompetitive).
    Well, first of all, most of these "regulations" stem from the first Bush presidency and are just now being implemented. And most of these rules apply to coal-fired plants more than 40 years old that are inefficient and being replaced by more efficient natural gas plants. Which is a result in the price of competing fuels. Natural gas continues to be low regardless of EPA rules. The coal industry is hurting because of cheap and abundant natural gas.

    http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.cfm?id=7290

  8. #8
    Atomic Punk bsbll4's Avatar
    Join Date
    02.18.03
    Age
    34
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    8,634
    Favorite VH Album

    Van Halen/ADKOT
    Favorite VH Song

    Hot For Teacher
    Last Online

    12.12.17 @ 02:48 PM
    Likes
    566
    Liked 2,218 Times in 1,118 Posts


    Premium Member

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gabby gabbster View Post
    Well, first of all, most of these "regulations" stem from the first Bush presidency and are just now being implemented. And most of these rules apply to coal-fired plants more than 40 years old that are inefficient and being replaced by more efficient natural gas plants. Which is a result in the price of competing fuels. Natural gas continues to be low regardless of EPA rules. The coal industry is hurting because of cheap and abundant natural gas.

    http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.cfm?id=7290
    The regulations are what makes coal expensive--and natural gas cheap in comparison. If there were no EPA regulations, natural gas would not be the alternative it is right now. Besides, the EPA is looking into stopping fracking anyway, so this could all be short lived.

    I'm not saying that coal is a better option, because cheap, clean fuel is definitely what everyone wants, but you can at least sympathize with the people that work in the coal industry seeing their jobs evaporate due to government intervention into the marketplace.
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

  9. #9
    Eruption gabby gabbster's Avatar
    Join Date
    08.06.01
    Posts
    1,206
    Last Online

    12.01.17 @ 09:52 AM
    Likes
    9
    Liked 33 Times in 27 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bsbll4 View Post
    The regulations are what makes coal expensive--and natural gas cheap in comparison. If there were no EPA regulations, natural gas would not be the alternative it is right now. Besides, the EPA is looking into stopping fracking anyway, so this could all be short lived.
    Natural gas is cheap because of its abundance, which has led these coal plants to close "almost regardless of EPA rules."
    http://www.lawandenvironment.com/upl...le/CRS-EPA.pdf
    Coal is relatively cheap as well because it is having to compete with gas prices.

    Quote Originally Posted by bsbll4 View Post
    I'm not saying that coal is a better option, because cheap, clean fuel is definitely what everyone wants, but you can at least sympathize with the people that work in the coal industry seeing their jobs evaporate due to government intervention into the marketplace.
    That's a pretty broad and blanket statement to say that it was the government who intervened in the marketplace and therefore people lost their jobs. Is the government responsible for the abundance of natural gas on the earth too? lol Though regulations may have a part in this, the primary cause of these old, outdated, coal plants closing (and subsequent job losses) is the technological breakthrough in fracking which has led to a boom in companies using natural gas.
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...as-prices.html
    Last edited by gabby gabbster; 09.27.12 at 08:56 AM.

  10. #10
    Atomic Punk bsbll4's Avatar
    Join Date
    02.18.03
    Age
    34
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    8,634
    Favorite VH Album

    Van Halen/ADKOT
    Favorite VH Song

    Hot For Teacher
    Last Online

    12.12.17 @ 02:48 PM
    Likes
    566
    Liked 2,218 Times in 1,118 Posts


    Premium Member

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gabby gabbster View Post
    Natural gas is cheap because of its abundance, which has led these coal plants to close "almost regardless of EPA rules."
    http://www.lawandenvironment.com/upl...le/CRS-EPA.pdf
    Coal is relatively cheap as well because it is having to compete with gas prices.



    That's a pretty broad and blanket statement to say that it was the government who intervened in the marketplace and therefore people lost their jobs. Is the government responsible for the abundance of natural gas on the earth too? lol Though regulations may have a part in this, the primary cause of these old, outdated, coal plants closing (and subsequent job losses) is the technological breakthrough in fracking which has led to a boom in companies using natural gas.
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...as-prices.html
    Gabby, for every enviro-site that claims that regulations have no bearing on coal prices, I can find 5 others that say the opposite. It's not even debatable to say regulations have had an effect on coal prices--it's a fact. Whether it's the suppliers, the refiners, the manufactuers, or the users, there are enough negative incentives along the way to steer consumers in another direction.

    I'm not saying that's wrong, but it's a reality. And whether you are a miner, a train supplier, shipping company, or a waitress in a coal town, these jobs going away have a very real effect. You would like to think that growth of jobs in the natural gas areas would balance it out, but then all you're talking is zero net gain, not job growth. Is it worth it? Yeah, probably when you look at the big picture.

    But going back to your original point about the companies complaining that Obama era regulations in place (and ones he wants to instate) will kill jobs, yes...they are (or will). I don't think denying that would help those in favor of the regulations. What would be a better argument would be to point out the advantages of natural gas over coal and that moving the market in that direction is a positive for America. There will still be people that disagree with it, but it's better than denying the obvious.
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

  11. #11
    Atomic Punk ziggysmalls's Avatar
    Join Date
    11.24.03
    Location
    Cleveland, Oh
    Posts
    12,969
    Favorite VH Album

    Fair Warning
    Favorite VH Song

    Dance the Night Away
    Last Online

    12.12.17 @ 08:24 AM
    Likes
    2,600
    Liked 4,797 Times in 2,448 Posts


    Premium Member

    Default

    Four out of five dentists approve Crest. What about that 5th dentist? Is he a quack or does he know something?

    Maybe he works for Colgate? Anyway for any report that anybody produces, there will always be somebody out there who will show something different because it is their agenda.

    I know people who work in the coal industry and have one friend who's dad is very high up. Its regulations that are killing the industry. Natural gas doesn't help but both sides take Appalachia for granted.

 

 

Similar Threads

  1. Deficit Shrinks To Lowest Level Of Obama Presidency
    By Hot Sauce in forum Political Underground
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: 01.27.15, 03:18 PM
  2. Iraqi oil output reaches highest level in more than 3 years
    By voivod in forum VH Fans Meeting Place (Non-Music)
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 12.28.07, 08:54 AM
  3. Suicide Rate for Pre-Teen, Teen Girls Jumps to Highest Level in 15 Years
    By voivod in forum VH Fans Meeting Place (Non-Music)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09.06.07, 01:16 PM
  4. Hybrid Vehicles Unable to Pass Emissions Test in Georg
    By ZeoBandit in forum VH Fans Meeting Place (Non-Music)
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 04.16.07, 12:17 PM
  5. What would be the lowest thing you would do to get Van Halen back...
    By BEZEK KNOWS BEST in forum Main VH Discussion
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 11.05.02, 10:08 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •