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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk
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    Default Romney spokeswoman in trouble for praising Romneycare


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    Banned! CaptainVonDoom's Avatar
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    The difference?

    1. Romneycare was implemented at the state-level.

    2. Massachusetts had a budget surplus when Romney implemented Romneycare.

    3. Romneycare did not bankrupt our country.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainVonDoom View Post
    The difference?

    1. Romneycare was implemented at the state-level.

    2. Massachusetts had a budget surplus when Romney implemented Romneycare.

    3. Romneycare did not bankrupt our country.
    this, that and then some...
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    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainVonDoom View Post
    The difference?

    1. Romneycare was implemented at the state-level.

    2. Massachusetts had a budget surplus when Romney implemented Romneycare.

    3. Romneycare did not bankrupt our country.
    i don't understand the American right on this. If someone on the left says they are in favour of universal health care they are automatically called a socialist. But when the Republican nominee actually implements universal health care then it's ok because of other factors?

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    Good Enough Thai Boxer 9901's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    i don't understand the American right on this. If someone on the left says they are in favour of universal health care they are automatically called a socialist. But when the Republican nominee actually implements universal health care then it's ok because of other factors?
    Another thing the right wont admit is that this country has been bankrupt LONG before President Obama took office. Iraq and Afghanistan. Ring any bells?
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    Banned! CaptainVonDoom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    i don't understand the American right on this. If someone on the left says they are in favour of universal health care they are automatically called a socialist. But when the Republican nominee actually implements universal health care then it's ok because of other factors?
    You're canadian, I don't expect you to understand. Google "federalism" for a primer.

    1. Romneycare = state-level, Obamacare = federal level. Big FUCKING difference. The federal government can not force a state to adopt the individual mandate, that's why the supreme court upheld the mandate as a TAX, under the taxing authority of the federal government.


    2. Romney did NOT increase taxes to implement Romneycare. Massachusetts had a budget surplus. Obama will unleash 21 new taxes or tax increase to pay for Obamacare --- NATIONWIDE.


    "Here Are The New Taxes You’re Going To Pay For Obamacare"

    http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily...145413745.html

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/ashleaeb...-year-earners/

    http://news.investors.com/article/61...den.htm?p=full

    http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/17118...der-obamacare/


    3. Obamacare will add billions/trillion to the DEFICIT!


    "Obamacare Won’t Add a Dime to Deficit – it Will Add $1.76 Trillion"

    http://news.yahoo.com/obamacare-won-...231800123.html

    "Why Obamacare Adds Hundreds Of Billions To The Deficit"

    http://www.businessinsider.com/chart...it-2012-4?op=1

    "Why The Supreme Court Decision on Obamacare May Dramatically Increase the Deficit"
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/201...e-the-deficit/

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    Banned! CaptainVonDoom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thai Boxer 9901 View Post
    Another thing the right wont admit is that this country has been bankrupt LONG before President Obama took office. Iraq and Afghanistan. Ring any bells?

    Nice try. but wrong.

    National Debt has increased more under Obama than under Bush
    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_1...an-under-bush/

    "(CBS News) The National Debt has now increased more during President Obama's three years and two months in office than it did during 8 years of the George W. Bush presidency.

    The Debt rose $4.899 trillion during the two terms of the Bush presidency. It has now gone up $4.939 trillion since President Obama took office."



    Budget deficit to top $1 trillion for 4th straight year under Obama

    http://content.usatoday.com/communit...1#.UCSV00TJ8QU

    Just a reminder - Feb 2009: Obama PROMISED to cut the deficit in half

    http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics...ficit-promise/
    Last edited by CaptainVonDoom; 08.09.12 at 09:56 PM.

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    Atomic Punk LLFHS's Avatar
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  9. #9
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainVonDoom View Post
    You're canadian, I don't expect you to understand. Google "federalism" for a primer.

    1. Romneycare = state-level, Obamacare = federal level. Big FUCKING difference. The federal government can not force a state to adopt the individual mandate, that's why the supreme court upheld the mandate as a TAX, under the taxing authority of the federal government.


    2. Romney did NOT increase taxes to implement Romneycare. Massachusetts had a budget surplus. Obama will unleash 21 new taxes or tax increase to pay for Obamacare --- NATIONWIDE.


    "Here Are The New Taxes You’re Going To Pay For Obamacare"

    http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily...145413745.html

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/ashleaeb...-year-earners/

    http://news.investors.com/article/61...den.htm?p=full

    http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/17118...der-obamacare/


    3. Obamacare will add billions/trillion to the DEFICIT!


    "Obamacare Won’t Add a Dime to Deficit – it Will Add $1.76 Trillion"

    http://news.yahoo.com/obamacare-won-...231800123.html

    "Why Obamacare Adds Hundreds Of Billions To The Deficit"

    http://www.businessinsider.com/chart...it-2012-4?op=1

    "Why The Supreme Court Decision on Obamacare May Dramatically Increase the Deficit"
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/201...e-the-deficit/
    You're clearly one of these "the right is always correct and the left is always wrong" types (also known as a sheep). Hard to have a civil conversation with people like you.

  10. #10
    Banned! CaptainVonDoom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    You're clearly one of these "the right is always correct and the left is always wrong" types (also known as a sheep). Hard to have a civil conversation with people like you.

    hard to have a civil conversation with people who resort to name-calling when they lose an argument.

    I presented my case and provided reputable sources to back up my claims. I don't see you saying anything intelligent to counter what I've said.

  11. #11
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainVonDoom View Post
    hard to have a civil conversation with people who resort to name-calling when they lose an argument.

    I presented my case and provided reputable sources to back up my claims. I don't see you saying anything intelligent to counter what I've said.
    what argument have i lost?

    your main criticism of Obama is implementing a universal health care program. And the "alternative's" major accomplishment while in office was, wait for it, implementing a universal health care program.

    I understand there is a difference between state power and federal power (we have something pretty similar up here - you can google it if you want to learn about it) but at the end of the day you are either in favour or against the concept of universal care. Both candidates have proven by their actions to be in favour. But only the one you don't like is a communist. Lovely.

    Obama has done a lousy job as president but wouldn't it be nice to see people argue actual policy differences and not resort to the silly season we see from you in the every thread.

  12. #12
    Atomic Punk ziggysmalls's Avatar
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    Going to offer you my side It's Mike.

    From a conservative point of view, states can pretty much do what they want providing it doesn't impact negatively other states or intrude on their commerce. For example health care. If Massachusetts wants to have Romneycare, that is fine providing it doesn't impact Ohio's budget. If South Dakota wants to ban abortion, cool. Just don't let it affect the people of Ohio. If Alaska wants people to roll their own joints, it's cool. Even gay marriage passed by a state election would get probably get a pass since it was done at the state level and not forced upon by the federal government. Sure the American Taliban would be pissed but if the state elected it, well what can you do. They have every right to appeal it at the state level by having a repeal done at a future election.

    It's not even a Democrat vs Republican issue. I remember back in 88, I was turning 19 which in Ohio would allow me to drink beer. Not liquor. Well the Federal Government was trying to mandate 21 as the drinking age. Ohio, Minnnesota and some other states said "Screw you. We are deciding." The Feds said "ok, we will take away any highway funds if you want to keep the age at 19." So the state government had to relent and I was pissed. Reagan was president with I believe a GOP Senate.

    Anyway the country was founded so that States had much more power and people would like to see a return to that. It doesn't make us wacko's or anything of the sort. We just don't trust the Federal Government and don't like them imposing their will at the state level.

  13. #13
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziggysmalls View Post
    Going to offer you my side It's Mike.

    From a conservative point of view, states can pretty much do what they want providing it doesn't impact negatively other states or intrude on their commerce. For example health care. If Massachusetts wants to have Romneycare, that is fine providing it doesn't impact Ohio's budget. If South Dakota wants to ban abortion, cool. Just don't let it affect the people of Ohio. If Alaska wants people to roll their own joints, it's cool. Even gay marriage passed by a state election would get probably get a pass since it was done at the state level and not forced upon by the federal government. Sure the American Taliban would be pissed but if the state elected it, well what can you do. They have every right to appeal it at the state level by having a repeal done at a future election.

    It's not even a Democrat vs Republican issue. I remember back in 88, I was turning 19 which in Ohio would allow me to drink beer. Not liquor. Well the Federal Government was trying to mandate 21 as the drinking age. Ohio, Minnnesota and some other states said "Screw you. We are deciding." The Feds said "ok, we will take away any highway funds if you want to keep the age at 19." So the state government had to relent and I was pissed. Reagan was president with I believe a GOP Senate.

    Anyway the country was founded so that States had much more power and people would like to see a return to that. It doesn't make us wacko's or anything of the sort. We just don't trust the Federal Government and don't like them imposing their will at the state level.

    I get all of that Ziggy. And I completely understand your perspective on this.

    I'm just saying as a candidate people like VonDoom talks about Romney like he was sent down by God to run the country while Obama is often tagged with this socialist tag (clearly by people who have no idea what the economic concept even is). It's just funny when the thing he rips on Obama most for is something that Romney supports as a concept (granted at the state and not the federal level, the actual idea is the same).

    I just wish the Republicans would run a campaign on what the real issue is. That being the federal government setting money on fire and the need to stop it. Hard for the party to run on that I guess (it's not like the past few republican presidents have paid off a nickel of debt) but Romney could, couldn't he? Couldn't he actually hold the universal health care thing over Obama's head? Why not run a campaign that says "yes, I'm in favour of this and I actually implemented it. But I made sure we could afford it first. So let's FIRST clean up our finances and then, and only then, we can talk about more programs".

  14. #14
    Banned! CaptainVonDoom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    what argument have i lost?

    your main criticism of Obama is implementing a universal health care program. And the "alternative's" major accomplishment while in office was, wait for it, implementing a universal health care program.

    I understand there is a difference between state power and federal power (we have something pretty similar up here - you can google it if you want to learn about it) but at the end of the day you are either in favour or against the concept of universal care. Both candidates have proven by their actions to be in favour. But only the one you don't like is a communist. Lovely.

    Obama has done a lousy job as president but wouldn't it be nice to see people argue actual policy differences and not resort to the silly season we see from you in the every thread.


    I'm in favor of an individual mandate at the state-level IF:


    1. the state can afford it

    2. it will not increase the budget deficit

    3. the state's unemployment rate is under 5% (Massachusetts unemployment rate under Romney was 4.7%. Current unemployment rate under Obama is 8.3%).

    4. it doesn't include an employer mandate. Obamacare requires companies with 50 or more employees to offer insurance to their employees. If they do not, they must pay a penalty of $2,000 per employee. Romneycare in Massachusetts requires all companies with 11 or more employees to offer insurance or pay a penalty of $285 per employee per year. However, Romney initially vetoed this mandate, and he opposes its use in federal healthcare policy. It was later overridden by the Massachusetts legislature which was 87% Democrats at the time. Romney’s current healthcare plans do not include the employer mandate..

    The federal government has NO business forcing states to implement an individual mandate that will impose a $2.5 trillion bill that will increase costs in a health-care system that is already too expensive, and doing so when state budgets have been roiled by a recession. ObamaCare's expansion of Medicaid will force an additional $118 billion in unfunded mandates onto the states through 2023. Most states simply can not afford to implement Obamacare.


    ObamaCare Will Punish State Budgets


    "Tennessee's previous governor, Democrat Gov. Phil Bredesen, has called ObamaCare "the mother of all unfunded mandates," estimating that it would cost Tennessee an additional $1.1 billion from 2014 to 2019, even with the federal government covering the Medicaid expansion for the first three years."

    The same is true in Idaho, where Medicaid rolls would nearly double to include more than a quarter of the state's population. The additional enrollees would add more than $240 million in costs between 2014 and 2020."

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...982016492.html

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    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    Why not run a campaign that says "yes, I'm in favour of this and I actually implemented it. But I made sure we could afford it first. So let's FIRST clean up our finances and then, and only then, we can talk about more programs".
    That would have been the intelligent thing for him to do, but he ran away from it during the Republican primaries and he can't double back now.

    He ran to the right of what he truly believes just so he could get the nomination, and he unfortunately didn't realize he didn't need to, with the other candidates available.

    There is no way Santorum, Bachmann, Cain or Perry were getting the nomination, the Republican Party isn't that stupid yet, but we are getting there, gives us some time, and we'll have a Cain/Palin ticket.
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