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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk
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    12.11.17 @ 04:37 PM
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    "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack. -- Gen. George S. Patton

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    Atomic Punk bsbll4's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 12:23 PM
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    My job actually allowed me to work on site at Monsanto for a few months, and I can tell you, they aren't the evil, surreptitious bastards that everyone thinks they are. These are incredibly smart folks who are legitimately helping the world's hunger issues. Do they make a profit in the meantime? Absolutely. But they are doing great things at the same time. Farmers can use a fraction of the land they used to and get the same yield, and that is thanks to Monsanto. They have also developed lines of crops that are able to grow in low moisture environments like Africa, where starvation is the most pronounced.

    Most of the complaints against Monsanto are from people who simply don't understand the science behind it. Most of their advances use cross-breeding and other age-old techniques to get better results (although admittedly in a much higher-tech and scientific environment). So in that sense, you've been eating "Frankenfoods" your entire life.

    IMO, the fact that they earn a profit is what scares people. If they were a non-profit organization these concerns would disappear.
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

  3. #3
    Atomic Punk Little Dreamer's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 12:49 PM
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    But why do they hire lobbyist to make sure no law is passed requiring this kind of food be labelled?

    The food industry need a lot MORE regulations. That's one industry where there will never be enough checking, verifying, inspecting, etc.
    Little Dreamer

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    Atomic Punk bsbll4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Dreamer View Post
    But why do they hire lobbyist to make sure no law is passed requiring this kind of food be labelled?
    The food industry need a lot MORE regulations. That's one industry where there will never be enough checking, verifying, inspecting, etc.
    Based on the misinformation about their product, they probably know that people would unjustifiably freak out over it. Besides, farmers don't want it labeled either. It hurts farmers first, Monsanto second.

    If this stuff was as dangerous as the protestors make it out to be, we would all already be dead.

    As for more regulation, I don't know if I can say I support that. I think the FDA does a great job as it is. Sure, there are random recalls because someone gets the runs from their lettuce, but our food is safer than ever. If you get too much regulation you're just going to drive up the cost of the food, which when it comes to something so necessary for everyone to survive, will end up hurting those least able to afford it. As things stand right now it's already more expensive to eat healthy foods. With our national health being as it is, I don't think we want to give any more reasons for people not to eat their veggies.

    However, I definitely don't want them to make any cuts that endangers that safety.
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

  5. #5
    Good Enough cabomiro's Avatar
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    12.14.17 @ 01:13 PM
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    Unless you are growing your own food or buying from organic markets - you have been eating genetically altered food for the past 30+ years.
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  6. #6
    Atomic Punk edwardv's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 02:42 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Dreamer View Post
    But why do they hire lobbyist to make sure no law is passed requiring this kind of food be labelled?
    All large corporations do this in the USA. Its called crony capitalism and it works very well with a corrupt Congress. BTW candidate Obama promised to get rid of all lobbyists. The first thing he did as president was to put some on his staff.LOL
    EVH 1979: Well, actually it's not much of a vacation, because we run everything ourselves. We design our own album cover, we have to be in the office every day to sign checks - the whole corporation revolves around us. Nothing can be done without our approval. We even have photo approval.

  7. #7
    Atomic Punk bsbll4's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 12:23 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by cabomiro View Post
    Unless you are growing your own food or buying from organic markets - you have been eating genetically altered food for the past 30+ years.
    Bingo.

    And yet we're all still here able bitch about it.
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

  8. #8
    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 03:13 PM
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    Mankind has been hyrbidizing and cross pollunating plants for centuries, probably millenia, Monsanto just does it in a more advanced way than the monks used to.
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  9. #9
    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsbll4 View Post
    Based on the misinformation about their product, they probably know that people would unjustifiably freak out over it. Besides, farmers don't want it labeled either. It hurts farmers first, Monsanto second.

    If this stuff was as dangerous as the protestors make it out to be, we would all already be dead.

    As for more regulation, I don't know if I can say I support that. I think the FDA does a great job as it is. Sure, there are random recalls because someone gets the runs from their lettuce, but our food is safer than ever. If you get too much regulation you're just going to drive up the cost of the food, which when it comes to something so necessary for everyone to survive, will end up hurting those least able to afford it. As things stand right now it's already more expensive to eat healthy foods. With our national health being as it is, I don't think we want to give any more reasons for people not to eat their veggies.

    However, I definitely don't want them to make any cuts that endangers that safety.
    I mostly agree, though I don't think the government and the FDA have the greatest track record.

  10. #10
    Atomic Punk Little Dreamer's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 12:49 PM
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    "Let's not label food because if we did people would freak out."

    I guess let's also not tell people when there's a nuclear accident like Fukushima, because it would also cause pannick, right?

    Scientific research links high fructose corn syrup to cancer. Coke has been proven to contain carcinogenic ingredients. Just wait 10 more years and see the increased amount of people dying from cancer here in America.

    "It would hurt farmers??"

    We're talking about the health of our kids here. Yours and mine, if you have any. This is way beyond anyone making a few more or a few less $.
    Little Dreamer

  11. #11
    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Dreamer View Post
    "Let's not label food because if we did people would freak out."

    I guess let's also not tell people when there's a nuclear accident like Fukushima, because it would also cause pannick, right?

    Scientific research links high fructose corn syrup to cancer. Coke has been proven to contain carcinogenic ingredients. Just wait 10 more years and see the increased amount of people dying from cancer here in America.

    "It would hurt farmers??"

    We're talking about the health of our kids here. Yours and mine, if you have any. This is way beyond anyone making a few more or a few less $.
    And what about if there is no health difference? You punish the company that has developed new ways to make things better by putting warnings on their food that hurts sales? What happens when that company goes under and millions and millions and millions (as they do now) continue to DIE each year from hunger because these companies and their technologies aren't around to help alleviate it? We just all feel better because the kids in the rich countries live MAY live a couple years longer (but probably won't)?

    Nothing has ever scientifically linked high-fructose corn syrup to anything worse than sugar. And even if it did, it's only used because the price of sugar in western countries is kept artificially high due to the corn lobby (these same lobbies LOVE regulation because it deters competition by pricing them out--the big companies that can afford to lobby can afford to jump through regulatory hoops). This can keep 1) the price of food high (killing millions) and, 2) if they ever do link high fructose syrup, us unhealthy.

    However, a scientific review by American Journal of Clinical Nutrition showed that:

    "High fructose corn syrup contains the same sugars compositionally as
    other fructose/glucose-based sweeteners like sucrose (or table sugar), honey
    or fruit juice concentrates.
    -- Fructose-glucose sweeteners are metabolized through the same pathways
    regardless of their dietary source.
    -- There are no known substantial metabolic or nutritional differences
    between high fructose corn syrup and sucrose. Both have a composition of
    approximately equal parts fructose and glucose.
    -- High fructose corn syrup and sucrose offer equivalent sweetness and
    both contain 4 calories per gram.
    -- From 1970-2005, caloric intake in the United States increased by 24%.
    This was not due to a disproportionate increase in added sugars (including
    high fructose corn syrup), but rather an overall increase in calories from all
    food sources including fats and all other nutrient groups.
    -- Per capita consumption of high fructose corn syrup has declined in the
    United States in recent years, but obesity rates continue to rise.
    -- High fructose corn syrup accounts for about one-half of sweetener use
    in the United States but only 8% worldwide, yet obesity rates are climbing in
    countries that use little or no high fructose corn syrup. Sugar remains the
    predominant global sweetener."
    Last edited by lovemachine97(Version 2); 05.23.12 at 05:10 PM.

  12. #12
    Atomic Punk Little Dreamer's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 12:49 PM
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    Protect companies first, protect kids later.

    I know some people are of this opinion. My priorities are just different.

    And I do believe the freedom to be informed comes before the freedom to do business. That's why it's called the First Amendment. I say this as a small business owner: there are some things that are more important than companies being able to get more sales because they don't need to label a product. In all the other industrialized nations, the food business has to follow a lot of regulations, and nobody went out of business or went hungry. If you go to Switzerland, Sweden, France, Japan, Korea, etc. They have labels. They're doing well.
    Little Dreamer

  13. #13
    Atomic Punk
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    12.04.17 @ 04:15 PM
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    To be honest, I'm not convinced that labelling food / drink accordingly would make one iota of difference to sales and consumption.

    You only have to look at how tobacco products are labelled here in the UK to see that - the pictures and warnings on cigarette packets are enormous, unmistakeable and absolutely hideous - yet people continue to smoke regardless.

    Here's an example of what I am referring to:



    And just to give you an idea of size, in relation to the packet:



    Now, I'm not imagining for one second that food / beverage companies are going to be expected to put warnings like these on their products but if tobacco companies are being forced to do it and it's making no discernable difference to the numbers smoking, I can't honestly foresee food labelling deterring consumers to any great extent either.
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  14. #14
    Atomic Punk bsbll4's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 12:23 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Dreamer View Post
    Protect companies first, protect kids later.

    I know some people are of this opinion. My priorities are just different.

    And I do believe the freedom to be informed comes before the freedom to do business. That's why it's called the First Amendment. I say this as a small business owner: there are some things that are more important than companies being able to get more sales because they don't need to label a product. In all the other industrialized nations, the food business has to follow a lot of regulations, and nobody went out of business or went hungry. If you go to Switzerland, Sweden, France, Japan, Korea, etc. They have labels. They're doing well.
    But it wouldn't protect anyone, really, because there are no harmful effects from eating these crops. Besides, high fructose corn syrup has zero to do with whether the corn is modified or not, because you can get the product from organic corn as well.

    And if labeling their products didn't hurt sales, I doubt they would have lobbyists trying to prevent it from happening. Although I can understand Dibbs' point...those smokers are bat shit crazy to use the product with that on the label!!
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

  15. #15
    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Dreamer View Post
    Protect companies first, protect kids later.

    I know some people are of this opinion. My priorities are just different.

    And I do believe the freedom to be informed comes before the freedom to do business. That's why it's called the First Amendment. I say this as a small business owner: there are some things that are more important than companies being able to get more sales because they don't need to label a product. In all the other industrialized nations, the food business has to follow a lot of regulations, and nobody went out of business or went hungry. If you go to Switzerland, Sweden, France, Japan, Korea, etc. They have labels. They're doing well.
    This is the perfect example of the political discourse today. And I don't mean to pick on you specifically, Little Dreamer. That's not the point. I'm just gonna point something out that goes on everywhere, so I really hope this doesn't get into something personal with you and me; that's not what I want. I just get frustrated at something I see above.

    The idea put forth here is that if you're not for super regulation, super labeling, and super control by the FDA and whatever other entities the government invents in the name of safety, then you are for protecting a business' bottom line and killing children.

    It's the same idea that former Rep. Alan Grayson tried to use on the floor of Congress when he said that the Republican health care plan is for you to "die early". The implication in context was that if you're not for Obamacare, then you're against fixing health care and you want to kill people.

    This goes both ways. Bush gave a "you're either with us or against us" speech for other nations, allowing for no nuance, nor the idea that someone could be for different tactics yet also not be in support of terrorism. The implication got even more egregious as we invaded Iraq.

    Maybe, just maybe...I believe that less, but smart regulation, more competition in following the rules, etc., will keep food safe, make it less expensive, and save more children than the other way.

 

 

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