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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk
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    12.11.17 @ 04:37 PM
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    TSA Defends Pat-Down Of Crying 4-Year-Old Girl At Kansas Airport

    WICHITA, Kan. -- The grandmother of a 4-year-old girl who became hysterical during a security screening at a Kansas airport said Wednesday that the child was forced to undergo a pat-down after hugging her, with security agents yelling and calling the crying girl an uncooperative suspect.



    The incident has been garnering increasing media and online attention since the child's mother, Michelle Brademeyer of Montana, detailed the ordeal in a public Facebook post last week. The Transportation Security Administration is defending its agents, despite new procedures aimed at reducing pat-downs of children.

    The child's grandmother, Lori Croft, told The Associated Press that Brademeyer and her daughter, Isabella, initially passed through security at the Wichita airport without incident. The girl then ran over to briefly hug Croft, who was awaiting a pat-down after tripping the alarm, and that's when TSA agents insisted the girl undergo a physical pat-down.

    Isabella had just learned about "stranger danger" at school, her grandmother said, adding that the girl was afraid and unsure about what was going on.

    "She started to cry, saying `No I don't want to,' and when we tried talking to her she ran," Croft said. "They yelled, `We are going to shut down the airport if you don't grab her.'"

    But she said the family's main concern was the lack of understanding from TSA agents that they were dealing with a 4-year-old child, not a terror suspect.

    "There was no common sense and there was no compassion," Croft said. "That was our biggest fault with the whole thing – not that they are following security procedures, because I understand that they have to do that."

    Brademeyer, of Missoula, Mont., wrote a public Facebook post last week about the April 15 incident, claiming TSA treated her daughter "no better than if she had been a terrorist." The posting was taken down Wednesday. Another post said the family had filed formal complaints with the TSA and the airport.

    The TSA released a statement Tuesday saying it explained to the family why additional security procedures were necessary and that agents didn't suspect or suggest the child was carrying a firearm.

    "TSA has reviewed the incident and determined that our officers followed proper screening procedures in conducting a modified pat-down on the child," the agency said.

    The statement noted that the agency recently implemented modified screening procedures for children age 12 and younger to further reduce the need for pat-downs of children, such as multiple passes through a metal detector and advanced imaging technology.

    "These changes in protocol will ultimately reduce – though not eliminate – pat-downs of children," the statement said. "In this case, however, the child had completed screening but had contact with another member of her family who had not completed the screening process."

    U.S. Sen. Jon Tester, a Montana Democrat, pressed the TSA for more information Wednesday. Tester, a member of the Senate Homeland Security Committee, said he was concerned the TSA went too far.

    "I am a staunch advocate for effective transportation security, but I'm also a strong advocate for common sense and the freedoms we enjoy as Americans," Tester wrote to TSA Administrator John Pistole. "Any report of abuse of the power entrusted to officers of the TSA is especially concerning – especially if it involves children."

    In a phone interview from her home in Fountain Valley, Calif., Croft said Brademeyer tried to no avail to get TSA agents to use a wand on the frightened girl or allow her to walk through the metal detector again. She also said TSA agents wanted to screen her granddaughter alone in a separate room.

    "She was kicking and screaming and fighting and in hysterics," Croft said. "At that point my daughter ran up to her against TSA's orders because she said, `My daughter is terrified, I can't leave her.'"



    The incident went on for maybe 10 minutes, until a manager came in and allowed agents to pat the girl down while she was screaming but being held by her mother. The family was then allowed to go to their next gate with a TSA agent following them.

    Croft said that for the first few nights after coming home, Isabelle had nightmares and talked about kidnappers. She said TSA agents had shouted at the girl, telling her to calm down and saying the suspect wasn't cooperating.

    "To a 4-year-old's perspective that's what it was to her because they didn't explain anything and she did not know what was going on," Croft said. "She saw people grabbing at her and raising their voices. To her, someone was trying to kidnap her or harm her in some way."
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  2. #2
    Atomic Punk MF5150's Avatar
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    12.16.17 @ 09:55 AM
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    Disgusting.

    Anybody who thinks these measures are making air travel safer is delusional.
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  3. #3
    Hang 'Em High jetguy5150's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 11:56 AM
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    I don't know...this one has me a bit on the side of the fence that I am usually not with these TSA stories. Seems like a pretty damn good way to sneak something through security if you think about it.

    What's bothering me is the stranger danger comment. Yes, we were all taught about stranger danger but we were also taught about people of authority such as policemen, firemen etc. I was also taught by my parents to be respectful when crossing the border into the U.S. and back home, not to joke at the airport etc. And the fact that the mom was there should remove much of the stranger danger, should it not?
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  4. #4
    Baluchitherium
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    11.25.17 @ 04:30 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetguy5150 View Post
    I don't know...this one has me a bit on the side of the fence that I am usually not with these TSA stories. Seems like a pretty damn good way to sneak something through security if you think about it.

    What's bothering me is the stranger danger comment. Yes, we were all taught about stranger danger but we were also taught about people of authority such as policemen, firemen etc. I was also taught by my parents to be respectful when crossing the border into the U.S. and back home, not to joke at the airport etc. And the fact that the mom was there should remove much of the stranger danger, should it not?
    I'm with you on this one, 'Guy. Sneaking something onboard using a child or an elder is perfect cover. Everything and everyone is fair game to someone who wishes to harm us (except hollowing out a Quran and putting a bomb in there [applicable to fundamentalist Islamic terrorists only]).

    I understand that TSA personnel have a shitty job. My nephew worked his way through college while doing this job and he thought it sucked. The pay wasn't bad, but lots of other things associated with it were, particularly the travelers. More professionalism (in this case, knowing your "audience") is needed here. More training and accountability for their actions is needed.

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  5. #5
    Atomic Punk MF5150's Avatar
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    12.16.17 @ 09:55 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetguy5150 View Post
    I don't know...this one has me a bit on the side of the fence that I am usually not with these TSA stories. Seems like a pretty damn good way to sneak something through security if you think about it.
    And yet prior to 9/11 I don't remember of too may planes being blown up by kids with bombs strapped to them. Or hijackings taking place by terrorists who used children to smuggle a weapon on the place. Maybe there was, but I haven't read any news stories of the sort.
    My man, when you are fantasizing, don't go for attainable, you can get attainable at the local Applebee's. - Dave's Dreidel

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    Forum Frontman Double Down's Avatar
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    11.17.17 @ 12:11 PM
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    I fly all the time. I want everyone screened. Young, old, wheelchairs, infants, I don't care. All it takes is one sick fuck to try something.
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  7. #7
    Hang 'Em High jetguy5150's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 11:56 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by MF5150 View Post
    And yet prior to 9/11 I don't remember of too may planes being blown up by kids with bombs strapped to them. Or hijackings taking place by terrorists who used children to smuggle a weapon on the place. Maybe there was, but I haven't read any news stories of the sort.
    Mitch I think you are being a bit dramatic. You can't exclude anyone from the screening process. You may not find any stories about bombings but there are many where people have tried to use kids, the elderly, people in wheelchairs etc. to smuggle items through security, as MM noted. As soon as the TSA or CBP start making even the smallest exception, all of a sudden there is an opportunity to exploit the system.
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  8. #8
    Hang 'Em High
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    12.16.17 @ 05:15 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by MF5150 View Post
    Disgusting.

    Anybody who thinks these measures are making air travel safer is delusional.
    Agreed, paranoia is a rampant disease these days.

    I don't care what the policies are, nobody can argue its not pathetic that these measures exist, fine if you think we or you need it, but still its so sad its come to this.

    The delusion and suspiscion of terrorism is just mind blowing these days.
    Last edited by Ain't Talkin' Bout' Love; 04.27.12 at 11:36 AM.

  9. #9
    Good Enough cabomiro's Avatar
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    12.14.17 @ 01:13 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Down View Post
    I fly all the time. I want everyone screened. Young, old, wheelchairs, infants, I don't care. All it takes is one sick fuck to try something.
    Absolutely agree.

    Sadly people already use kids to smuggle drugs. If someone wants to use a kid for something worse, they will. Everyone should get the same treatment at the airport.
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  10. #10
    Atomic Punk
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    Here's my problem with TSA.

    If the terrorist is already in the terminal it's too late. A plane carries around 400 people. There can be 4000+ in the big international airports. The terminal is the easier target.

    I'd point out the worst terror attacks of the 70s & 80s were in airport terminals, not in the airplanes. Rome and La Guardia airports come to mind.

    So it's all for show.
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  11. #11
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
    Here's my problem with TSA.

    If the terrorist is already in the terminal it's too late. A plane carries around 400 people. There can be 4000+ in the big international airports. The terminal is the easier target.

    I'd point out the worst terror attacks of the 70s & 80s were in airport terminals, not in the airplanes. Rome and La Guardia airports come to mind.

    So it's all for show.
    an even easier target is a shopping mall or sporting event. It's not all for show. But at the end of the day even someone wants to get through security they will. That doesn't mean we should make doing that as easy as possible.

  12. #12
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    12.16.17 @ 11:45 AM
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    Thank you TSA!

    Because we all know that lurking inside every one of these...




    Is one of THESE!
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  13. #13
    Eruption donkost's Avatar
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    12.14.17 @ 09:23 PM
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    Most of this ongoing bullshit and associated knee-jerk reactions keeping us "safe" could have been avoided if the doors to the flight deck would have been locked and secured prior to 9/11. It was even identified as a potential problem but securing those doors had not been implemented. These 9/11 fuckwads with their box cutters might have injured or killed some passengers but they would have eventually been overcome. And no access to the flight deck means no 9/11. Easy to Monday morning quarterback this sort of thing now, but think of the loss of life, the wars (especially Iraq), and all other associated nonsense which could have been avoided if that day did not take place.

  14. #14
    Sinner's Swing! VH122's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 05:13 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by donkost View Post
    Most of this ongoing bullshit and associated knee-jerk reactions keeping us "safe" could have been avoided if the doors to the flight deck would have been locked and secured prior to 9/11. It was even identified as a potential problem but securing those doors had not been implemented. These 9/11 fuckwads with their box cutters might have injured or killed some passengers but they would have eventually been overcome. And no access to the flight deck means no 9/11. Easy to Monday morning quarterback this sort of thing now, but think of the loss of life, the wars (especially Iraq), and all other associated nonsense which could have been avoided if that day did not take place.
    Just pointing out the fact that the TSA pat downs are a result of the underwear bomber not 9/11.

  15. #15
    Atomic Punk MF5150's Avatar
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    12.16.17 @ 09:55 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetguy5150 View Post
    Mitch I think you are being a bit dramatic. You can't exclude anyone from the screening process. You may not find any stories about bombings but there are many where people have tried to use kids, the elderly, people in wheelchairs etc. to smuggle items through security, as MM noted. As soon as the TSA or CBP start making even the smallest exception, all of a sudden there is an opportunity to exploit the system.
    If it was my kid, I'd be pissed off. And if it was your kid, you would be as well, buddy. If not, I'd be shocked. I remember flying to Florida all the time as a young child and I never once remember getting vigorously patted down. Why wasn't the system exploited then?

    "You better get your kid or else we're going to shut the airport down."

    Give me a fuckin break. Some of these TSA agents are on power trips so bad it would make you sick.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ain't Talkin' Bout' Love View Post
    Agreed, paranoia is a rampant disease these days.

    I don't care what the policies are, nobody can argue its not pathetic that these measures exist, fine if you think we or you need it, but still its so sad its come to this.

    The delusion and suspiscion of terrorism is just mind blowing these days.
    Agreed.


    It's a little thing called common sense and rarely is it ever utilized in cases like this. Prior to 9/11 airport security was terrible. Now, post-9/11, they're going overboard in the name of security.

    Send the kids through one of those xray body scanners. It sure beats having a child being felt up by some power tripping TSA agent.

    My Grandmother was subject to one of these pat downs last year when we were flying out of SA, Texas. My Dad, my Grandpa and Grandma, we were all flying together. They made her get up out of her wheelchair, take off her belt, and conducted a 2-3 minute pat down. Because maybe they thought me or my Dad or my Grandpa put a gun or explosive device in my Grandmother's pants. Meanwhile they didn't pat down any of us able bodied males (my Dad and I; or my Grandpa, for that matter). Logical? Pat down the old lady in the wheelchair travelling with her husband, son and grandson.

    Yep I'm sure everybody boarding our plane felt a little bit safer seeing her getting patted down.
    Last edited by MF5150; 04.28.12 at 10:13 AM.
    My man, when you are fantasizing, don't go for attainable, you can get attainable at the local Applebee's. - Dave's Dreidel

 

 

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