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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk
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    12.11.17 @ 04:37 PM
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    Default Marine who criticized Obama on Facebook to be discharged...

    Marines discharge sergeant for Facebook posts

    SAN DIEGO A sergeant will be discharged for criticizing President Barack Obama on Facebook in a case that called into question the Pentagon's policies about social media and its limits on the speech of active duty military personnel, the Marine Corps said Wednesday.

    Sgt. Gary Stein will get an other-than-honorable discharge and lose most of his benefits for violating the policies, the Corps said.

    The San Diego-area Marine who has served nine years in the Corps said he was disappointed by the decision. He argued that he was exercising his constitutional rights to free speech.

    "I love the Marine Corps, I love my job. I wish it wouldn't have gone this way. I'm having a hard time seeing how 15 words on Facebook could have ruined my nine-year career," he told The Associated Press.

    Gary Kreep, an attorney for Stein, said he would pursue administrative appeals within the Marine Corps but anticipates the effort will fail. He said he planned to file an amended complaint in federal court.

    "As long as he wants to pursue this, we will be supporting him," said Kreep, who is executive director of the United States Justice Foundation, an advocacy group.

    The Marines acted after saying Stein stated March 1 on a Facebook page used by Marine meteorologists, "Screw Obama and I will not follow all orders from him." Stein later clarified that statement, saying he would not follow unlawful orders.

    Brig. Gen. Daniel Yoo, the commanding general of the Marine Corps Recruit Depot San Diego, said in a brief statement Wednesday that evidence supported an administrative board's recommendation to discharge Stein.

    Tom Umberg, a former Army colonel and military prosecutor, said Stein persisted even after being warned.

    "The Marine Corps gave him the opportunity to think about his actions, yet Sgt. Stein continued to undermine the chain of command," said Umberg, who was not involved in Stein's case. "I think his purpose was to leave the Marine Corps in a dramatic fashion in order to begin a career in talk radio or what have you."

    Umberg believes the decision to discharge Stein will have limited impact because the vast majority of Marines would never consider such postings.

    "I think 99 percent of the soldiers and Marines currently on duty understand the duties of supporting the chain of command and understand their rights of free speech are limited," he said. "To that 1 percent who don't know their rights to free speech are limited once they take the oath, this is a loud and clear message."

    During a hearing, a military prosecutor submitted screen grabs of Stein's postings on one Facebook page he created called Armed Forces Tea Party, which the prosecutor said included the image of Obama on a "Jackass" movie poster. Stein also superimposed Obama's image on a poster for "The Incredibles" movie that he changed to "The Horribles," military prosecutor Capt. John Torresala said.

    At the hearing this month at Camp Pendleton, Torresala argued that Stein's behavior repeatedly violated Pentagon policy and he should be dismissed after ignoring warnings from his superiors about his postings.

    The military has had a policy since the Civil War limiting the free speech of service members, including criticism of the commander in chief.

    Pentagon directives say military personnel in uniform cannot sponsor a political club; participate in any TV or radio program or group discussion that advocates for or against a political party, candidate or cause; or speak at any event promoting a political movement.

    Commissioned officers also may not use contemptuous words against senior officials.

    http://fellowshipofminds.wordpress.c...seph-plenzler/

    http://militarytimes.com/blogs/battl...obama-marines/
    "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack. -- Gen. George S. Patton

  2. #2
    Baluchitherium
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    11.25.17 @ 04:30 AM
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    He doesn't deserve to be a Marine. What an idiot! Threw away an honorable career.

    Warfighters have more limited freedom of speech than the average American citizen and we can't step over those bounds. We don't have to like the CINC. We can say, in certain settings, that we don't like the CINC, but we have to be careful what we say and when we say it.

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  3. #3
    Atomic Punk jrk5150's Avatar
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    12.17.17 @ 10:41 AM
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    He certainly has a constitutional right to free speech.

    He does not, however, have a constitutional right to be in the Marine Corps. Or to any job for that matter. MANY employees get fired for talking shit about their companies.

    Drives me nuts when people use that "free speech" excuse. Yes, you have the right to say stupid things. But your employer then also has the right to fire your dumb ass.

  4. #4
    Baluchitherium
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    11.25.17 @ 04:30 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrk5150 View Post
    He certainly has a constitutional right to free speech.
    But as a warfighter, he has less rights. That's how we have to roll.

    Quote Originally Posted by jrk5150 View Post
    Drives me nuts when people use that "free speech" excuse. Yes, you have the right to say stupid things. But your employer then also has the right to fire your dumb ass.
    Yep. I concur.

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  5. #5
    Atomic Punk sixstring's Avatar
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    07.20.17 @ 02:42 PM
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    While I think he should have the right to critisize anyone he likes, he isn't afforded that right as a Marine. You sign up for service and the gov't owns you for the duration of enlistment. You literally become property of the U.S. military and they can do with you as they please. Sad but true...
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  6. #6
    Atomic Punk sixstring's Avatar
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    07.20.17 @ 02:42 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrk5150 View Post
    He certainly has a constitutional right to free speech.

    He does not, however, have a constitutional right to be in the Marine Corps. Or to any job for that matter. MANY employees get fired for talking shit about their companies.

    Drives me nuts when people use that "free speech" excuse. Yes, you have the right to say stupid things. But your employer then also has the right to fire your dumb ass.
    That, as of January this year, is fair game for debate thanks to Obama.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]


    "20 minutes (late to work)? Shit. Last year I woke up three weeks too late.
    My advice is to go for the alien abduction story. Look bemused, dishevelled and on the verge of tears as you recount your story of intrusive and degrading medical tests.
    Worked for me anyway. I still have colleagues asking me what it is like to fuck a green womanoid with seventeen breasts.
    Alternatively just walk in and inform everyone that alcoholism is indeed a disease and that they should be less judgemental and perhaps a little more supportive."
    - graeme on the addiction to this place.

    "something tells me that after the nuclear holocaust, there'll be twinkies, cockroaches, and a dave vs. sammy argument going on somewhere".
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  7. #7
    Banned! phillybri76's Avatar
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    11.25.15 @ 10:51 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixstring View Post
    That, as of January this year, is fair game for debate thanks to Obama.
    Is there a smilie that shows making the "jerking-off" motion with my hand?

    No? Then I'll just have to settle for these...

  8. #8
    Atomic Punk jrk5150's Avatar
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    12.17.17 @ 10:41 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixstring View Post
    That, as of January this year, is fair game for debate thanks to Obama.
    Dude - seriously, lets not go political with this thing. Besides, do you REALLY want to turn this into a comparison of how your rights have been impacted under Obama vs. Bush? Really?!?

  9. #9
    Baluchitherium
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrk5150 View Post
    Dude - seriously, lets not go political with this thing.
    Yeah...what jrk5150 said. This is NOT a political issue. It's an issue of a warfighter that overstepped his boundaries concerning his freedom of speech. There are several of us here at the links that are bound by this same code, and you don't hear us complaining about it.

    These boundaries are set in place for warfighters because it is a part of maintaining order and discipline. Order and discipline are important because failure to wage effective war, failure to follow orders, and failure to properly leverage force projection via our personal skills and tactical knowledge can be a matter of life and death. It permeates our lifestyle, both on and off duty.

    Quote Originally Posted by jrk5150 View Post
    Besides, do you REALLY want to turn this into a comparison of how your rights have been impacted under Obama vs. Bush? Really?!?
    No, jrk5150. Let's not turn this into a political issue.
    Last edited by Metal Marc; 04.27.12 at 06:57 AM.

    "The shit I read on this site." -- Dave's Dreidel (Nov 6th, 2013)

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    "There's very little greatness in this world, but in the crucible of quality there's a special corner reserved for Van Halen." -- Bob Lefsetz

  10. #10
    Atomic Punk jrk5150's Avatar
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    Lol. Yeah, I shoulda let that one go. Sorry.

  11. #11
    Atomic Punk
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    Guys were kicked out under Clinton & Bush for the same kind of crap.

    Rightly so too.
    "Nothing is ever what it seems but everything is exactly what it is." - B. Banzai


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  12. #12
    Baluchitherium
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    04.02.15 @ 07:26 AM
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    If you are given an order that is illegal or you conciously object to then you take it up with your CO, you DO NOT rant on Facebook. In my opinion and as a former member of the millitary, he was asking to be discharged....He is an idiot and a coward.
    http://www.facebook.com/Tommywho5150

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  13. #13
    Atomic Punk
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    May 2012

    Meet Gary Stein, outspoken anti-Obama social-media poster and former U.S. Marine Corps sergeant, now a blogger, fledgling radio host and real estate agent.

    And don't rule out candidate for office sometime soon.

    Stein may have lost his battle to stay in the Marine Corps ---- he was booted for repeatedly bashing President Barack Obama on Facebook ---- but says he can still win the war.

    Stein woke up Friday morning a civilian, after being dismissed from the service and busted to lance corporal for violating a Pentagon regulation governing service members' political speech.

    "It's a little surreal," Stein said minutes after departing Camp Pendleton after his last day in uniform Thursday. "I didn't want it to end this way. It's a little sad."

    Stein, 26, a new resident of Murrieta, failed to convince a Marine Corps panel last month that his statements didn't violate long-established limits on service members' speech.

    He also was unable to persuade a federal judge to stop the Marine Corps from kicking him out for his incendiary and intemperate anti-Obama statements, including "screw Obama" and calling the commander in chief the "enemy."

    Stein is appealing the dismissal through military channels and pressing a federal court case, defended by an unlikely partnership of the American Civil Liberties Union and tea party attorneys.

    Prevailing would vindicate his belief that he was merely asserting his First Amendment rights, Stein said. He acknowledges the statements were "tasteless," but defends them as protected speech.

    In response to the Stein affair, the Marine Corps has asked the Pentagon to clarify the regulation governing political activity by members of the military to spell out what is allowed in the age of social media.

    Stein said he was taken aback when he learned of that request. He considers it a vindication of his assertion that he did nothing more than express an opinion that shouldn't have led to his dismissal under "other than honorable" conditions.

    "Proving the Marine Corps wrong would be good for me, but what it would really do is protect the free-speech rights of every member of the military," Stein said.

    Still, being forced out is hard, he said.

    "After nine years of wearing the Marine Corps uniforms, today I was ordered to turn them in. I took pride in wearing those uniforms and to have them taken from me is very hard," Stein wrote on his Armed Forces Tea Party page on Facebook.

    Stein launched the site in 2010 in response to the president's health care law, which he said he believes is unconstitutional and typifies Obama's approach to governing.

    "I don't think Barack Obama is necessarily a socialist, but a lot of his policies reek of socialism," said Stein, a veteran of one combat deployment to Iraq whose enlistment was supposed to end July 28.

    Military law experts sided with the Marine Corps and federal court, saying Stein crossed the line.

    The commander of his Camp Pendleton unit did the same in their last meeting on Thursday afternoon, Stein said.

    "He asked if I had any last 'shots,'" Stein said. "I said, 'No, sir, I do not.'"

    "He then said, 'The military has rules about censorship and political speech, and you violated that. Goodbye,'" Stein said.

    "It was unbecoming and disrespectful and kicking a guy when he was down," Stein said.

    A self-described "regular guy," Stein has launched an Internet radio show called "ConservativeSitRep."

    He got his real estate license a couple of years ago and is looking to land work with a firm near his Southwest Riverside County home.

    Stein said he has few regrets about his fight with the Marine Corps, other than its refusal to allow him to reach the end of his active service. He said he offered to take down his personal Facebook page and end his association with the Armed Forces Tea Party site that has attracted hundreds of followers, but he was rebuffed.

    The nationwide media attention he garnered in recent weeks wasn't something he sought, Stein said.

    "All of that has been overwhelming, and I think it made the situation worse. I could have gone without any of it, because I'm not some kind of media whore," Stein said. "But I agreed to answer all of the questions that were asked of me."

    The lesson he draws from the entire episode, he said, is a firm belief that he is no more political than the Marine Corps.

    "The Marine Corps wants to say it isn't political, but it is in every sense of the word," he said. "It very well might now represent the truest form of political correctness."

    Stein said he will continue to speak out publicly, much as he did at a Bonsall tea party gathering shortly after his troubles with the Marine Corps arose in early March.

    He's scheduled to speak May 26 to a Young Republican Club at the Public House restaurant and pub in Old Town Temecula.

    He has also been asked to consider running for elected office and said he's giving that serious thought.

    "I'm a conservative, hellbent on preserving American freedom," Stein said.
    "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack. -- Gen. George S. Patton

  14. #14
    Eruption
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    10.30.17 @ 05:08 AM
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    Idiot
    It is what it is

    I won't insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said

    I could tell that my parents hated me. My bath toys were a toaster and a radio.

  15. #15
    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
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    12.17.17 @ 11:42 AM
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    What a fucking moron.

    So they actually asked him first to take down his website before canning him, and he still refused, am I reading that correctly?

    Then he is a double idiot.
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