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  1. #1
    Hang 'Em High James in New York's Avatar
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    12.14.17 @ 07:17 PM
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    A year after Sept. 11 attacks, fate of detainees in Cuba remains unknown
    Mon Aug 26, 8:05 PM ET
    By IAN JAMES, Associated Press Writer

    GUANTANAMO BAY NAVAL BASE, Cuba - When the men accused of links to terrorism arrived in Cuba, some were forced to kneel, their hands and feet in shackles and their eyes covered with blackened goggles.

    Photographs of their arrival prompted U.S. allies to demand explanations — and British newspapers to speak of torture. A year after the Sept. 11 attacks, criticism of the detainees' treatment has lessened, but questions are increasingly being asked about what will happen to them.

    At least four have attempted suicide at the prison camp in eastern Cuba. The U.S. military says one tried to slash his wrists with a plastic razor and three tried to hang themselves.

    Others among the 598 prisoners mark time chatting through diamond-shaped holes in their cell walls, praying in unison and sometimes joking with their American guards.

    They have no calendars or clocks to keep track of time. The United States has not announced plans for trials of the detainees and is building more cells, making room for more captives as it considers waging war in Iraq.

    "This is a new kind of war," said Lt. Col. Dennis Fink, spokesman for a task force in charge of interrogations. He said investigations of the detainees — which are shrouded in secrecy — will be conducted "for as long as it takes."

    The U.S. military refuses to identify the captives, saying only that they come from 38 countries and are linked to the al-Qaida terrorist network or the fallen Taliban regime that ruled Afghanistan ( news - web sites).

    The men haven't been charged and aren't allowed lawyers. The families of some have mounted legal challenges, but to no avail.

    The detainees' letters to and from home — censored by the military and delivered by the International Committee of the Red Cross — are their only link to the outside world.

    "He writes that he is comfortable, but he feels he has been wronged," said Khaled al-Oda in Kuwait, describing letters from his son, 24-year-old Fawzi al-Oda.

    The Americans' silence is aggravating, he said. "They don't say how much longer they will be detained — two months, three, a year."

    The U.S. government says the men could be tried by tribunals, returned home for trial, released or remain in detention.

    Most American politicians back the indefinite detention. But U.S. Representative Alcee Hastings, a Florida Democrat, is critical.

    "Nobody has any sympathy for terrorists,"said Hastings, who in February toured Camp X-ray where the detainees were initially held. "But all of us have a responsibility to exercise ourselves in a way that gives America the high moral ground."

    The prisoners have been moved from Camp X-ray's chain-link cells to a permanent prison, Camp Delta, where solid walls obscure journalists' view. Weeds are rising in the deserted camp, which some human rights activists said resembled rows of animal cages.

    After the military flew one detainee, Yaser Esam Hamdi, to a Virginia jail in April upon confirming he was a U.S. citizen born in Louisiana, some critics complained the United States had a double-standard — to the disadvantage of the foreign-born detainees.

    Soldiers who guard detainees say desperation and loneliness are common. Thirty-seven prisoners are being treated or monitored for psychiatric problems. Some are on antidepressants or anti-psychotic drugs.

    Kuwaiti detainee Abdulaziz Sayer Owain al-Shammari said in a letter in March that he was refusing food and water to demand freedom, a court hearing, or "to die as I cannot stand life in this place."

    Each man is led to an enclosure twice a week for 15 minutes of exercise. Some run in circles. The military says inmates have gained 14 pounds (6 kilograms) on average.

    The Muslim call to prayer wafts from loudspeakers five times a day. Meanwhile, five Muslim inmates have converted to Christianity.

    "They just happened to need someone to talk to and saw me walking by," said Maj. Mike Merrill, a Protestant chaplain.

    Sometimes the men yell at guards and spit or throw water at them. Other times, they crack jokes.

    Sgt. Ylaine Harris, 25, of Clinton, Mississippi, recalled one man who grinned as he told her that he would like a Pepsi and a pizza.

    "I just laughed," she said.

    Sgt. 1st Class Wes Griffith, 32, of Kansas City, Missouri, said the inmates seem to like American music and sometimes sing to the guards.

    "I've heard Eminem ( news - web sites)," he said. "Britney Spears comes out a lot. I've heard some Led Zeppelin, Van Halen."

    [ August 28, 2002, 05:48 AM: Message edited by: James in New York ]
    Fashion your life as a garland of good deeds.

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    They should maybe start singing "Judgement Day." Hopefully it will come soon for them. Let's burn them at the stake, and sing "On Fire."

  3. #3
    Hang 'Em High James in New York's Avatar
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    12.14.17 @ 07:17 PM
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    Probably singing "Running with the Devil..."
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    Fashion your life as a garland of good deeds.

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    07.27.07 @ 01:06 PM
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    Donor

    I was in Cuba when they had all those Haitians there, yeah they act all cool and harmless but those rat bastards will jump you in a second, at least were (Marines) guarding them this time, not those complaicent ass Army guys!

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    Imperial Fascist Overlord Down In Flames's Avatar
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    duh-duhhhhh...

    duh-duh-duh-duh-da-duh...

    "Running With The Great Satan..." [img]graemlins/drunk.gif[/img]

    Fuckers. Every time one of the guilty ones sings, he should get the butt of a rifle in his Adam's apple.
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    Originally posted by James in New York:
    Sgt. 1st Class Wes Griffith, 32, of Kansas City, Missouri, said the inmates seem to like American music and sometimes sing to the guards.

    "I've heard Eminem ( news - web sites)," he said. "Britney Spears comes out a lot. I've heard some Led Zeppelin, Van Halen."
    O.K. I can see making those bastards listen to large doses of Spears and Eminem.

    But Led Zeppelin and Van Halen? Prison is supposed to be punishment--not a vacation!

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    Hey, these are people who are being held illegally. Some of them are guilty for sure, but who can say how many are innocent? Shame on Lil' Bush for perverting democracy. At least the fact that they have heard American music means they have heard some of the better things about this country.

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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    I have to start paying more attention to these thread titles ...

    So these terrorist bastards are singing Eminem and Spears to each other?

    No wonder there've been so many suicide attempts!

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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    Originally posted by tonus:
    Hey, these are people who are being held illegally. Some of them are guilty for sure, but who can say how many are innocent? Shame on Lil' Bush for perverting democracy. At least the fact that they have heard American music means they have heard some of the better things about this country.
    Yeah ... shame, shame, shame.


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    07.27.07 @ 01:06 PM
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    Donor

    Yeah, your going to get allot of support with that comment Tonus.

    Have you ever dealt with other 3rd world cultures before? Dealing with most in a Democratic way will only confuse them more, and increase there hatred. And last time I checked, Cuba is not part of the United States, nor are they United States Citizens, they are agressors against the the country you live in, and they would kill you to prove a point the first chance they got.

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    "Have you ever dealt with other 3rd world cultures before?"

    Spent a fair amount of time with them--their culture is as good as ours.

    "Dealing with most in a Democratic way will only confuse them more, and increase there hatred."

    G. Warmonger Bush is a bigot, who doesn't understand the principles this country was founded on. If democracy is good enough for us, it's good enough for the world. Secret tribunals, torture, and unprovoked war on Iraq should only be contemplated by a madman dictator, not the president of the US. No problem though, I believe we'll vote in a regime change in a couple years.

    " And last time I checked, Cuba is not part of the United States, nor are they United States Citizens,"

    Ever heard of human rights?

    " they are agressors against the the country you live in, and they would kill you to prove a point the first chance they got."

    That's just the point. Nobody knows how many of this people are actually guilty, as they are being held illegally and in secret without trial.

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    Donor

    This is war, as unfortunate as it is its a package deal. We must look out for number one here and I think there is a good chance that most of those prisoners are guilty, the rest are casualties. As far as I am concerned they could put all those fuckers dancing around in the streets having a party after learning of our twin towers getting destroyed in there too.

    How well do you think this "some of the prisoners may be innocent" shit is going to fly with the tens of thousands of family members of the victims of 9/11? Not too fucking well I can tell you that, Bush is taking charge and if he doesn't its fuckers like bin laden and hussein, that will walk all over us.

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    Donor

    OK Tonus, so when have you ever spent time dealing with people from a 3rd world country?

    I personally have more then a few times, never did it cross my mind that there culture was any where near the same ("as good") as ours. What I took away from it was that the majority of the population has been brought up in a black and white society, either take or it will be taken from you. They have no concept of truth as we know it, there core values basically consist of self preservation, and personal honor. Losing face is as important as death, and using a lie to save face is as good as using the truth to do the same. The truth is used only when it's convenient, and when they cant possibly look weak doing it.

    Also, human life as we understand it is completely foriegn to them. As is basic human values. A difference of opinion between another man can easily result in the death of one of them, and also the death of anyone related that may seek revenge, without any feeling of remorse as we would understand it. Kindness more often then not is viewed as weakness, and taken advantage of accordingly. Alliences are formed based on who can give who the most bang for there buck, and there deep seeded religious beliefs can be easily sold for the right price, usually having someting to do with there own self preservation.

    This on going conflict that we are having is viewed by them as a collision of two seperate beliefs, and lifestyles. They have no respect for what we believe in, and would kill any number of us for reasons that we couldn't even begin to comprehend. There Govt. (if you can call it that) would create suffering just to cast more light on how they feel they are being treated unfairly, and there people would do the same because they do not understand anything about us, and also for the right price.

    So Tonus, if you hate the "dictatorship" that you live in, turn off the radio, put down your cheeseburger, and go buy a plane ticket to Iran, try and stay there for a few weeks, you won't live to see the end of it.

    [ August 28, 2002, 10:23 AM: Message edited by: willy4pres ]

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    Originally posted by willy4pres:
    OK Tonus, so when have you ever spent time dealing with people from a 3rd world country?

    I personally have more then a few times, never did it cross my mind that there culture was any where near the same ("as good") as ours. What I took away from it was that the majority of the population has been brought up in a black and white society, either take or it will be taken from you. They have no concept of truth as we know it, there core values basically consist of self preservation, and personal honor. Losing face is as important as death, and using a lie to save face is as good as using the truth to do the same. The truth is used only when it's convenient.

    Also, human life as we understand it is completely foriegn to them. As is basic human values. A difference of opinion between another man can easily result in the death of one of them, and also the death of anyone related that may seek revenge, without any feeling of remorse as we would understand it. Kindness more often then not is viewed as weakness, and taken advantage of. Alliences are formed based on who can give who the most bang for there buck, and there deep seeded religious beliefs can be easily sold for the right price, usually having someting to do with there own self preservation.

    This on going conflict that we are having is viewed by them as a collision of two seperate beliefs, and lifestyles. They have no respect for what we believe in, and would kill any number of us for reasons that we couldn't even begin to comprehend. There Govt. (if you can call it that) would create suffering just to cast more light on how they feel they are being treated unfairly, and there people would do the same because they do not understand anything about us, and also for the right price.

    So Tonus, if you hate the "dictatorship" that you live in, turn off the radio, put down your cheeseburger, and go buy a plance ticket to Iran, stay there for a few weeks, you won't live to see the end of it.
    Your posts make me sad. You really have been perverted by the faults of our society. Muslim extremists certainly are wrong in the way they view the world, and their motives/purposes. The American ethnocentric mindset, and disguised warmongering motives of the 'great America' are no better. It just looks that way to many. Who's to say one culture is 'better' than another? Who has that authority to say one people are better than another? Nobody, because you can't. You are not god, and neither am I. It's this holier than though attitude with our fellow humans and with our environment (we think we can rape it, and it won't come back to bite us), is what is dragging us down. (I suggest everyone read 'Ishmael' by Daniel Quinn. Not religious, but gives you a new perspective on the world).

    I think what Tonus is trying to say here is that 'what right does Bush have to detain these people, if they don't know who is guilty and who isn't?'. Sure, the perpetrators of 9/11 should be punished, and those planning attacks should be stopped, but not mass detaining of whomever the us administration deems should be. Unfortunately for Bush, he gets all the heat for most of this. In reality, it's the administration as a whole that determines and carries out these policies. I would bet money that Bush sr. has more say in things than jr. I wouldn't blame jr. for being a warmongerer. I really think he's a weak figurehead. I might be getting off topic, so I'll stop before I piss too many 'nationalists' off. [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]

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    Donor

    strungout, know where in my post does it even hint that I think we are the good guys in this. The world is an ugly place, and I don't kid myself for a second into thinking these people are just born evil. They believe strongly that there view is the correct one, the difference is that your average westerner will not kill you because you believe something differnt then them, that is an option to them because of the world they grew up in, simple as that. People like you need to stop watching so much "news" TV and just try and think about the true situation we find ourselves in.

    I was in Turkey back in 1991, part of a relief effort that went on just after the end of the Gulf War, you didn't see how they treat each other, or how 90% of the male population looked at us with more hatred then you could possibly imagine. If they had the means, they would have wiped out every westerner present and the stronger ones would have taken all of the food for themselves. Trust me, more then a few tried.

    I was in the Adriatic Ocean for a Med Cruise back in 1993, before Bosnia was a big story for CNN. I watched these people (from the ship) kill each other for reasons they cant even remember, just after our presence was detected you may have heard a story about the Bosnian's purchasing Silkworm missles from the former Soviet Union, I know we did. Why do you suppose they bought a very lethal anti-shipping missle? We were the only people present with any Naval Forces, plus it was stated plainly that we were on a piece keeping mission. When a landing sight was selected that was basically safe from the fighting, and the only population was a few ethnic villages that were not part of the fighting itself, why was it then shelled by heavy artillary, even though it had gone untouched up until that point (about a year of heavy fighting), because they knew where we were going to land, and the people there (there own people) were just in the wrong place at the wrong time as far as they were concerned. Nice.

    In 1994 I was on a deployment in Haiti because of the actual Dictatorship and Human suffering that was going on at the time. Why was a small squad of American Marines fired upon (and one Navy Medic, with a big red cross on his helmet, was shot), not by the thugs the War Lords had working for them (that's what CNN reported), but average every day Haitian people that had taken weapons away from the War Lords that were victimizing them before we arrived. Maybe because they resented our very presence, they stayed peacfull until we had dissarmed the majority of the War Lords, after that our presence wasnt really tolerated, and they figured (accurately) that the American People wouldnt tolerate there soldiers in there Country if some of them were killed, to bad for them it didn't work out that way. I won't talk about the people on home made rafts that were trying to get explosives near our ship in order to sink it, bet that didn't make the news.

    Im the last person to say our Country is perfect, far from it. This is not about being right or wrong, it's really about self preservation, something the people were dealing with know all to much about. The problem is, there lifestyle really isn't threatened by us, they have just been decieved for so long by there leadership that they think it is.

    [ August 28, 2002, 11:08 AM: Message edited by: willy4pres ]

 

 

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