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  1. #1
    Gird your loins Daisy Hill's Avatar
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    12.09.17 @ 08:36 PM
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    Default lesbian denied communion at her mother's funeral

    having grown up in the Catholic and Lutheran churches ( my parents were a mixed marriage LOL) I have come to understand that sometimes, it isn't church policy or mandates that cause these things to happen, but often just a rogue clergyman who is imposing his beliefs/prejudices/interpretations of scripture etc

    but isn't this lacking in common decency to support someone who has lost their mother....sad


    Lesbian woman Barbara Johnson denied communion at her mother’s funeral
    Grieving woman says priest also refused to accompany family to the cemetary to say last goodbyes


    BY NINA MANDELL / NEW YORK DAILY NEWS

    Thursday, March 1, 2012, 8:16 AM

    Barbara Johnson was denied communion and the priest walked out on her mother's funeral last Saturday after he found out Johnson was a lesbian.

    A woman in Washington D.C. is asking for a priest to be removed from the diocese after he refused to give her communion at her mother's funeral — because she is a lesbian. The incident, which occurred on Saturday, came shortly after the Maryland legislature sent a bill legalizing gay marriage to Gov. Martin O'Malley. He is expected to sign it on Thursday.

    Barbara Johnson told the Washington Post that Father Marcel Guarnizo learned of her relationship with her partner of 19 years, who was at the funeral on Saturday morning, shortly before the service. But when the grieving art-studio owner went to take communion, he covered the symbolic body of Christ.

    "He put his hand over the body of Christ and looked at me and said, 'I can't give you Communion because you live with a woman and in the eyes of the church, that is a sin," she told the Post.

    Johnson, who told WJZ-TV she was "stunned," said the priest's stance just added to what was one of the most difficult weeks of her life. "I feel very sad," she told the TV station.

    Her brother, Larry Johnson, told WJLA-TV he immediately walked over to console his sister. "She was clearly distraught," he said. The priest then refused to accompany Johnson and her mother's body to the cemetery and instead she was told he was very ill.

    The Johnsons, who say their mother was a devout Catholic who scraped together enough money to send them all to Catholic schools, said they want Guarnizo fired.

    Barbara Johnson told the Post after she complained to the Washington archdiocese she received a letter from a high-ranking official apologizing for the lack of "kindness."

    "I am sorry that what should have been a celebration of your mother's life, in light of her faith in Jesus Christ, was overshadowed by a lack of pastoral sensitivity," Rev. Barry Knestout wrote, according to the Post. "I hope that healing and reconciliation with the Church might be possible for you and any others who were affected by this experience. In the meantime, I will offer Mass for the happy repose of your mother's soul. May God bring you and your family comfort in your grief and hope in the Resurrection."

    The archdiocese said in a statement to the Post that the priest's actions were "against" church policy. The newspaper also pointed out when the issue was raised in the 2004 presidential election, the archbishop of Washington said he did not believe in denying communion because it was impossible to know what was in a person's heart.

    Johnson said her only comfort will be is a church official will assure her that Guarnizo is never allowed to do that again.

    "No other family should have to suffer what we did from this man," she said.



    Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...#ixzz1nyWoNAFX

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    She was warned. She was given an explanation. Nevertheless, she persisted.

  2. #2
    Atomic Punk MF5150's Avatar
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    Nice.
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  3. #3
    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
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    12.10.17 @ 04:29 PM
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    Doesn't fucking surprise me in the least.
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  4. #4
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    12.10.17 @ 03:53 PM
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    can't say I've ever seen that before and I've been going to church for over 30 years. But by the letter of the law the priest did nothing wrong. Homosexual acts are considered mortal sins and one cannot receive communion if they have not confessed such sins. But this will cause a firestorm I'm sure.

    The story claims that she was raised as a Catholic and if she was a church goer she would have known she was not eligible for communion. It's certainly an interesting story on many levels.

  5. #5
    Atomic Punk MF5150's Avatar
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    12.10.17 @ 12:20 PM
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    I guess ho..........




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  6. #6
    Baluchitherium
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    12.08.17 @ 04:17 AM
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    I don't see anything wrong with what the priest did. He was just following the rules set forth by the church.
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  7. #7
    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    12.09.17 @ 11:21 PM
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    I've always said that part of tolerance is being tolerant of perceived or real intolerance, so this is a big "whatever" for me. We live in a society where it's not illegal to think or say what you think, and so someone's right to be, say, racist is just as protected as my right to tell dirty jokes. The Church here has specific beliefs, and they are strongly represented throughout a lot of this country, even if the tide is slowly turning the other way. The girl should have known, period. No need to glitterbomb the Pope because of it.

    I have to hand it to the parts of the gay community that take this stuff in stride and don't let it bother them. I was just reading an essay by Ron Paul which talked about a gay couple that sued the city of San Diego over the Boy Scouts using a park:

    "...a federal court judge in San Diego recently ordered that city to evict the Boy Scouts from a camp they have run in a city park since the 1950s. A gay couple, with help from the ACLU, sued the city claiming the Scouts’ presence was a violation of the 'separation of church and state.' The judge agreed, ruling that the Scouts are in essence a religious organization because they mention God in their recited oath. Never mind that the land, once privately owned, had been donated to the city for the express purpose of establishing a Scout camp. Never mind that the Scouts have made millions of dollars worth of improvements to the land. "

    I suppose the gay community could legislate from the bench as much as possible against the Church, especially in the right states, if they wanted to.
    Last edited by lovemachine97(Version 2); 03.02.12 at 10:41 AM.

  8. #8
    Gird your loins Daisy Hill's Avatar
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    12.09.17 @ 08:36 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    can't say I've ever seen that before and I've been going to church for over 30 years. But by the letter of the law the priest did nothing wrong. Homosexual acts are considered mortal sins and one cannot receive communion if they have not confessed such sins. But this will cause a firestorm I'm sure.

    The story claims that she was raised as a Catholic and if she was a church goer she would have known she was not eligible for communion. It's certainly an interesting story on many levels.
    Quote Originally Posted by Buschman View Post
    I don't see anything wrong with what the priest did. He was just following the rules set forth by the church.
    not really....the church statement was
    The archdiocese said in a statement to the Post that the priest's actions were "against" church policy. The newspaper also pointed out when the issue was raised in the 2004 presidential election, the archbishop of Washington said he did not believe in denying communion because it was impossible to know what was in a person's heart.

    I have known divorced and remarried people to SERVE communion at a Catholic church and I have seen non Catholic Christians attending funerals allowed to accept communion

    This is a church that has bigger fish to fry when it comes to searching out the morally corrupt and pointing fingers at them

    there is no way you can reconcile denying this woman communion at her mother's funeral with the spirit in which Christ offered it

    and in short .. it is the body of Christ....it is not the churches to "give"

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    She was warned. She was given an explanation. Nevertheless, she persisted.

  9. #9
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daisy Hill View Post
    not really....the church statement was
    The archdiocese said in a statement to the Post that the priest's actions were "against" church policy. The newspaper also pointed out when the issue was raised in the 2004 presidential election, the archbishop of Washington said he did not believe in denying communion because it was impossible to know what was in a person's heart.

    I have known divorced and remarried people to SERVE communion at a Catholic church and I have seen non Catholic Christians attending funerals allowed to accept communion

    This is a church that has bigger fish to fry when it comes to searching out the morally corrupt and pointing fingers at them

    there is no way you can reconcile denying this woman communion at her mother's funeral with the spirit in which Christ offered it

    and in short .. it is the body of Christ....it is not the churches to "give"
    What he did was perfectly in line with the teachings of the church. The only issue that the archdiocese has was that it was not handled in private. And in truth the real issue they had was that this hit the press.

    But anyone even remotely familiar with the teachings of the Catholic Church could tell you that refusing communion was perfectly justified. As a Catholic she should have known the policy and not went up for communion.

    From Catholic.com - again none of this is news to anyone who attends mass on an even semi-regular basis.

    The Church sets out specific guidelines regarding how we should prepare ourselves to receive the Lord’s body and blood in Communion. To receive Communion worthily, you must be in a state of grace, have made a good confession since your last mortal sin, believe in transubstantiation, observe the Eucharistic fast, and, finally, not be under an ecclesiastical censure such as excommunication.

    First, you must be in a state of grace. "Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup" (1 Cor. 11:27–28). This is an absolute requirement which can never be dispensed. To receive the Eucharist without sanctifying grace in your soul profanes the Eucharist in the most grievous manner.

    A mortal sin is any sin whose matter is grave and which has been committed willfully and with knowledge of its seriousness. Grave matter includes, but is not limited to, murder, receiving or participating in an abortion, homosexual acts, having sexual intercourse outside of marriage or in an invalid marriage, and deliberately engaging in impure thoughts (Matt. 5:28–29). Scripture contains lists of mortal sins (for example, 1 Cor. 6:9–10 and Gal. 5:19–21). For further information on what constitutes a mortal sin, see the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

    Out of habit and out of fear of what those around them will think if they do not receive Communion, some Catholics, in a state of mortal sin, choose to go forward and offend God rather than stay in the pew while others receive the Eucharist. The Church’s ancient teaching on this particular matter is expressed in the Didache, an early Christian document written around A.D. 70, which states: "Whosoever is holy [i.e., in a state of sanctifying grace], let him approach. Whosoever is not, let him repent" (Didache 10).

  10. #10
    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
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    One would think that common sense would prevail and that they would present communion to family members at a funeral if they wanted it, irregardless their religious belief or supposed mortal sins.
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  11. #11
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Dreidel View Post
    One would think that common sense would prevail and that they would present communion to family members at a funeral if they wanted it, irregardless their religious belief or supposed mortal sins.

    Common sense was missed in this case to be sure.

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  12. #12
    Atomic Punk CaboChris's Avatar
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    The priest didn't handle this with charity for sure, but he was within his right to refuse. NO priest who values his conscious would or should give Holy Communion to someone in a state of Mortal Sin. It's why I don't recieve. I'm not worthy until I have confessed and am willing to change what I am doing that goes against the teaching. Most intelligent people know what the Catholic Church is all about, yet these stories are always posted to single them out, like they have done something that is so heinous.

  13. #13
    Good Enough
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    Homosexual acts are considered mortal sins and one cannot receive communion if they have not confessed such sins.
    Uh ... what sort of homosexual ACTS would a grieving daughter be committing at her mother's funeral?


    The only sinful act I can see is a priest ratcheting up the misery on an already sorrowful day.

  14. #14
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToddE View Post
    Uh ... what sort of homosexual ACTS would a grieving daughter be committing at her mother's funeral?


    The only sinful act I can see is a priest ratcheting up the misery on an already sorrowful day.
    this should have been handled differently.

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    Atomic Punk LLFHS's Avatar
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    I'll just never understand any way of life, be it religion or what have you, where its members feel it appropriate to shun or otherwise cause another person to feel pain or rejection as a matter of policy.
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