Follow us on...
Follow us on Twitter Follow us on Facebook Watch us on YouTube
Register
Results 1 to 15 of 15
  1. #1
    Sinner's Swing! Rick S's Avatar
    Join Date
    09.29.99
    Location
    Wilmington ,Delaware
    Posts
    3,128
    Favorite VH Album

    fair warning
    Favorite VH Song

    mean street
    Last Online

    06.23.17 @ 09:49 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default question about running time based effects in 5150 head effect loop.

    hey guys , ok heres my current effects set up...guitar> wah > envelope filter> boss pichshifter(for whammy effects)>delay pedal (for noisy distorted echoes) > Boss ns2 noisegates input. > output to amp

    in the boss ns-2 effects loop (for distortion and time based effects) send >phase90>chorus>flanger>tremelo > into return of ns-2 loop

    now im thinking of running two (6 to maybe 10 foot ) cables into the effects loop of the 5150mk1 head from the time based effects section on my pedalboard(phaser,chorus,flanger,tremelo) and by passing the ns-2 s noise reduction effects loop .

    i have a boss dd3 and bbe sonic maximizer in the loop now and it sounds great...do you guys think running that many other pedals into the 5150s effects loop would degrade the sound or create ghosting or level drops from the modulation pedals ?

    wasnt sure if anyone had experience with this , i m just curious how much of a differnce there is with the modulation effects if they re more pronounced and clear in the effects loop....but didnt know if the long cables would cause a problem or that many pedals would cause sound problems because i havnt spent the 30 bucks on the cables yet.

    any advice , opinions , experience with modulation type pedals in your 5150s effects loop would be appreciated before i go spend anymore money.

    thanks for listening

    rick
    Last edited by Rick S; 01.16.12 at 08:55 AM.
    www.rickshick.tumblr.com

    1love4chi

    Deftones , now and forever and only second to VH.

    Dave or Sammy ?.........pffffft Eddie.

  2. #2
    Good Enough
    Join Date
    12.15.07
    Location
    Iowa/Illinois
    Posts
    1,807
    Favorite VH Album

    Balance
    Last Online

    10.26.16 @ 03:37 PM
    Likes
    2
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick S View Post
    hey guys , ok heres my current effects set up...guitar> wah > envelope filter> boss pichshifter(for whammy effects)>delay pedal (for noisy distorted echoes) > Boss ns2 noisegates input. > output to amp

    in the boss ns-2 effects loop (for distortion and time based effects) send >phase90>chorus>flanger>tremelo > into return of ns-2 loop

    now im thinking of running two (6 to maybe 10 foot ) cables into the effects loop of the 5150mk1 head from the time based effects section on my pedalboard(phaser,chorus,flanger,tremelo) and by passing the ns-2 s noise reduction effects loop .

    i have a boss dd3 and bbe sonic maximizer in the loop now and it sounds great...do you guys think running that many other pedals into the 5150s effects loop would degrade the sound or create ghosting or level drops from the modulation pedals ?

    wasnt sure if anyone had experience with this , i m just curious how much of a differnce there is with the modulation effects if they re more pronounced and clear in the effects loop....but didnt know if the long cables would cause a problem or that many pedals would cause sound problems because i havnt spent the 30 bucks on the cables yet.

    any advice , opinions , experience with modulation type pedals in your 5150s effects loop would be appreciated before i go spend anymore money.

    thanks for listening

    rick
    Well, try it out with what you've got and see how it sounds! It might work out just fine, although I bet it will add a little noise at least to the setup. Just see if that added noise is enough to matter. Might not be. If the signal is really degraded, see if you can bring the level back up to where it should be on some of the pedals along the way. The only thing I'd question is the bypass state on the pedals you wanna use -- they are likely not all true bypass (if any) and so you'd be relying on low voltage, relatively low headroom transistors to buffer the signal before it gets back to the amp. This can also lead to ghosting depending on each pedal's bypass circuit design.

    These effects WILL sound different in the loop vs. the front end. So you might like them in one place or another better or worse. I generally like a lot of those effects in the loop or even post amp, so YMMV.

    I'd recommend trying this new setup by adding one thing at a time, in order. Then if one of them adds a ton of noise or ghosting, you'll know which one, and there's a possibility that we can address the issue. You might stack them all and have no problem at all, so have fun experimenting

  3. #3
    Sinner's Swing! Rick S's Avatar
    Join Date
    09.29.99
    Location
    Wilmington ,Delaware
    Posts
    3,128
    Favorite VH Album

    fair warning
    Favorite VH Song

    mean street
    Last Online

    06.23.17 @ 09:49 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default

    thanks mrj , i was curious thats all because some people swear the phaser sounds better in the effects loop as well as the flanger.

    the actual pedals going into the effects loop would(theoretically) be : mxr phase90(r28 mod) , boss cs1 super chorus , boss bf-2 flanger , boss tr2 tremelo ,...along with a boss dd3 for reverb and sonic maximizer that have been in the loop for years now with no problem.

    the current setup i have with the pedals on my board those listed above are in the ns-2 pedals' noise reduction loop so i havnt noticed any ghosting from any of the pedals.
    only the wah , synth envelope filter , pitch shifter/whammy , and eh digital echo pedal go into the guitar input jack of the ns-2 and obviously all the effects on the pedal board signals leave from the guitar out jack of the ns-2 into the amplifier.

    i think ill stick with set up then...when i have free time to really dick around with pedals in the loop ill see how it sounds , but next time i play will be band practice so not really the right time.

    btw i just got a jj tubes 12dw7 preamp tube and im kinda hyped to see how that cleans up the hiss and low end flubbyness of the 5150 , so ill concentrate on that for now.


    thanks so much for the input man , always appreciated.
    www.rickshick.tumblr.com

    1love4chi

    Deftones , now and forever and only second to VH.

    Dave or Sammy ?.........pffffft Eddie.

  4. #4
    Good Enough nobozos's Avatar
    Join Date
    02.16.00
    Location
    Pekin, Il U.S.A.
    Posts
    1,753
    Last Online

    12.18.17 @ 04:26 AM
    Likes
    24
    Liked 737 Times in 350 Posts

    Default

    I've always pretty much been a minimalist with the pedals. I pretty much only use a Delay and Chorus pedal in the effects loop, and an Overdrive out front. I did run a BBE Sonic Maximizer in the effects loop, and it did sound really good there, even though BBE recommends it in front of the amp.

    Based on my experience with the limited pedals I've had, I would run the Delay in the effects loop, and put the Phaser in front of the amp. (I did have a Phaser at one time, but only used it infrequently) I find the Delay sounds more attractive in the loop. It's all to your own ear though. There is no really hard and fast rules to effects, except not to put any level altering effects in the loop.
    "Having an opinion that people disagree with doesn't make you a Douche, arguing with the people who disagree with your opinion and calling them stupid does!" -Me.

  5. #5
    Hot For Teacher J3FST1's Avatar
    Join Date
    01.20.04
    Location
    MASS
    Posts
    314
    Favorite VH Album

    1984
    Favorite VH Song

    Bomb the Moon
    Last Online

    03.13.12 @ 08:20 AM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    I found that running mod effects sounded better in front of the 5150 with delay in the loop.
    there is a big difference with the flanger out front then in the loop . its all i guess the sound your looking for.
    JX4244Q

  6. #6
    Sinner's Swing! Rick S's Avatar
    Join Date
    09.29.99
    Location
    Wilmington ,Delaware
    Posts
    3,128
    Favorite VH Album

    fair warning
    Favorite VH Song

    mean street
    Last Online

    06.23.17 @ 09:49 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default

    like i said i already have a boss dd-3 delay in the loop set very faint for a slap back reverb effect that goes into the bbe 362 maximizer(wich is rackmount)so theyre both in the loop. they work great.

    the delay pedal on the pedal board is set like cathedral kind of ;really loud and multiple repeats so i use it for strong ambient effects or just lots of notes feeding back or just noisy chaotic sounds....i only use the effects on the pedal board for small parts of songs or solos so nothing stays on for a whole song. ill try each pedal i was talking about individually in the effects loop when i have the time. for now ill keep them on the pedal board.

    .just wanted peoples input wich was great. thanks ...wanted to read opinions before i ran out buying more cables than i needed.
    Last edited by Rick S; 01.17.12 at 02:04 PM.
    www.rickshick.tumblr.com

    1love4chi

    Deftones , now and forever and only second to VH.

    Dave or Sammy ?.........pffffft Eddie.

  7. #7
    Sinner's Swing!
    Join Date
    11.26.10
    Age
    46
    Posts
    3,353
    Last Online

    11.25.17 @ 09:06 AM
    Likes
    1,679
    Liked 1,374 Times in 803 Posts

    Default

    I've been trying to get my act together between projects, and do a video showing all these differences with these types of effects both in the loop, out front, and also the sound difference between front loading delay into a 5150 and a classic Marshall.

    There's pretty dramatic differences using mod effects like flangers, phasers, wah's etc. in the FX loop. It's just preference, but personally I just don't like it at all, but I have been asked to do so from time to time for certain projects.
    Give me a day or two and check back here Saturday night for the vid.
    It'll be cool I think.
    Test mules:
    91 5150 blockletter
    75 Marshall 100w Super Lead
    76 Morley Deluxe Flanger (basically the same circuit as the MXR in a bigger box with a raised knob panel)
    92 MXR Phase 90
    Boss DD-3 delay
    also going to show my Boss CE-5 Chorus Ensemble in the FX loop as there has been tons of interest in it lately since Ed's been using a Chorus, and this is what I used for years for the Sam era type tone. It's a great pedal if you like that type of tone.

    All will be recorded through a classic Shure SM-57 for reference.
    Last edited by we die young; 01.25.12 at 06:16 AM.

  8. #8
    Good Enough
    Join Date
    12.15.07
    Location
    Iowa/Illinois
    Posts
    1,807
    Favorite VH Album

    Balance
    Last Online

    10.26.16 @ 03:37 PM
    Likes
    2
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by we die young View Post
    I've been trying to get my act together between projects, and do a video showing all these differences with these types of effects both in the loop, out front, and also the sound difference between front loading delay into a 5150 and a classic Marshall.

    There's pretty dramatic differences using mod effects like flangers, phasers, wah's etc. in the FX loop. It's just preference, but personally I just don't like it at all, but I have been asked to do so from time to time for certain projects.
    Give me a day or two and check back here Saturday night for the vid.
    It'll be cool I think.
    Test mules:
    91 5150 blockletter
    75 Marshall 100w Super Lead
    76 Morley Deluxe Flanger (basically the same circuit as the MXR in a bigger box with a raised knob panel)
    92 MXR Phase 90
    Boss DD-3 delay
    also going to show my Boss CE-5 Chorus Ensemble in the FX loop as there has been tons of interest in it lately since Ed's been using a Chorus, and this is what I used for years for the Sam era type tone. It's a great pedal if you like that type of tone.

    All will be recorded through a classic Shure SM-57 for reference.
    Fantastic! Demo videos like this are a great resource. I'm gonna be making a lot more of this type of thing with my 5150 once it is refurbished (it developed a hum, and was lacking something, so I'm replacing all non-tone circuit power filter capacitors in the amp with original brand components. This particular amp must have sat for long periods before I got it, which speeds up the decay of large caps. When I'm finished, it should sound exactly like it did when it rolled off the assembly line!)

    Also, what cab, mic pre, and audio interface will you be using for the demos? (Yes, I'm crazy enough to care )
    Last edited by mrjstudios; 01.25.12 at 09:31 AM.

  9. #9
    Sinner's Swing!
    Join Date
    11.26.10
    Age
    46
    Posts
    3,353
    Last Online

    11.25.17 @ 09:06 AM
    Likes
    1,679
    Liked 1,374 Times in 803 Posts

    Default

    Sounds good.
    Okay....For cabs I'll be using a stock original 5150 slant cab predominantly for the Marshall demo. Don't ask why, it just sounds great through that cab, and I'll probably mix it up with my old 70' Hiwatt straight cab with high efficiency Randall's for the 5150. I may break it up into two vids depending on time. Mic pre will be my stock Richmond tube mic pre's which live in my mixer, and I'll also probably use my old ART tube pre but we'll see. It doesn't sound all that different really.
    Audio interface is actually old school through the stock analog Richmond, then into my Tascam recorder outputs which should do the job nicely. My recording setup is simple but it get's the job done. I'll also try to do some comparo on the Eventide stuff against the CE-5 to show what differences there are between a true harmonizer type thickening vs. a Chorus. There are still a lot of folks who confuse the basic mild type of pitch shifting Eddie used with chorus. There IS a difference.

  10. #10
    Good Enough
    Join Date
    12.15.07
    Location
    Iowa/Illinois
    Posts
    1,807
    Favorite VH Album

    Balance
    Last Online

    10.26.16 @ 03:37 PM
    Likes
    2
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by we die young View Post
    Sounds good.
    Okay....For cabs I'll be using a stock original 5150 slant cab predominantly for the Marshall demo. Don't ask why, it just sounds great through that cab, and I'll probably mix it up with my old 70' Hiwatt straight cab with high efficiency Randall's for the 5150. I may break it up into two vids depending on time. Mic pre will be my stock Richmond tube mic pre's which live in my mixer, and I'll also probably use my old ART tube pre but we'll see. It doesn't sound all that different really.
    Audio interface is actually old school through the stock analog Richmond, then into my Tascam recorder outputs which should do the job nicely. My recording setup is simple but it get's the job done. I'll also try to do some comparo on the Eventide stuff against the CE-5 to show what differences there are between a true harmonizer type thickening vs. a Chorus. There are still a lot of folks who confuse the basic mild type of pitch shifting Eddie used with chorus. There IS a difference.
    Awesome! I've been planning on doing a detailed demo video demonstrating the different detune settings that were common in the 80's/90's. I'm gonna record a riff with my 5150, then run that same riff out thru my Digitech 2120 on a variety of pitch and signal delay settings so people can hear the difference.

  11. #11
    Sinner's Swing!
    Join Date
    11.26.10
    Age
    46
    Posts
    3,353
    Last Online

    11.25.17 @ 09:06 AM
    Likes
    1,679
    Liked 1,374 Times in 803 Posts

    Default Effects loop/front comparison video

    Hey guys! Stay cool. I have been having a bitch of a time editing my demo video for you. I'm having terrible syncing issues between my cams video and the audio through the digital interface.
    I'll either have the vid up tonight or tomorrow. by the end of each segment i'm between 30 to 40 some sec. out! so it's a little confusing for you to see exactly what I'm playing at stages.
    Thanks for your patience guys.
    J

  12. #12
    Sinner's Swing!
    Join Date
    11.26.10
    Age
    46
    Posts
    3,353
    Last Online

    11.25.17 @ 09:06 AM
    Likes
    1,679
    Liked 1,374 Times in 803 Posts

    Default Guys, Help!!!!

    Hey guys...I'm so sorry I have not been able to post my video.
    Here's the deal. I have been running some great Fuji suite editing software for about 2 yrs. Long story short, a week or two ago, I downloaded an update for the software, and it's basically screwed up my program.
    so...for the past 4 days I've been trying to edit my video, and I've been having the following issues:

    Absolutely terrible progressive lag between audio and video
    inability to properly manually resync the audio/video
    I can no longer cut sections out of the video as these tools are now greyed out in the tool bar.

    I know this is the guitar room, but since this video is pertaining to the original questions posted in the thread, I thought I'd ask as some of you post amazing videos.
    I've had it with my cam and am going to buy the Zoom Q3 HD because it has an adjustable line in and much faster processing but...
    In the meantime, do any of you know of any good freeware video editing software that I can use that also has separate audio tracking?
    Just for the short term until I get my Fuji Suite's craptacular "update" removed.
    Thanks again guys. It pisses me off! I even re-shot the video in lower definition thinking that might be the problem, but same shit.
    I'd shoot it yet again with the cam mic, but it's just too poor and you don't hear the dynamics of what I'm trying to emphasize.

  13. #13
    Good Enough
    Join Date
    12.15.07
    Location
    Iowa/Illinois
    Posts
    1,807
    Favorite VH Album

    Balance
    Last Online

    10.26.16 @ 03:37 PM
    Likes
    2
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Have you tried Windows Live Movie Maker for Windows 7? It's free, and works well in a pinch... well, it works most of the time.

  14. #14
    5150 GOLATTARI's Avatar
    Join Date
    09.25.10
    Age
    26
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    574
    Favorite VH Song

    Unchained!
    Last Online

    12.10.17 @ 11:29 AM
    Likes
    4
    Liked 36 Times in 16 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mrjstudios View Post
    Awesome! I've been planning on doing a detailed demo video demonstrating the different detune settings that were common in the 80's/90's. I'm gonna record a riff with my 5150, then run that same riff out thru my Digitech 2120 on a variety of pitch and signal delay settings so people can hear the difference.
    Very good idea!
    I'd do this, but my recording stuff is shit, so I will wait for yours

  15. #15
    Hot For Teacher
    Join Date
    05.08.03
    Location
    Florence/Muscle Shoals, AL
    Posts
    302
    Last Online

    12.17.17 @ 06:59 AM
    Likes
    4
    Liked 62 Times in 31 Posts


    Donor

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by J3FST1 View Post
    I found that running mod effects sounded better in front of the 5150 with delay in the loop.
    there is a big difference with the flanger out front then in the loop . its all i guess the sound your looking for.

    Back when I had a 5150, I always ran my delays & chorus in the loop and phaser out front. I switched to a JSX a few years back but still use the same philosophy. I did some serious A/Bing when I was setting up my new board and found that I definitely liked the phaser (Phase 90) and flanger (Boss BF-3) out front as opposed to the loop.

 

 

Similar Threads

  1. question with effects loop / high gain amps
    By Halen_Fanatic in forum Guitar Room
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 08.21.09, 11:05 AM
  2. Effects Loop (or lack thereof) question
    By mk5 in forum Guitar Room
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 04.28.08, 05:28 PM
  3. 5150 Effects Loop Problem.
    By bangerang5150 in forum Guitar Room
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 11.13.07, 08:16 PM
  4. help with effects loop?
    By patvh1 in forum Guitar Room
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 10.22.05, 07:26 PM
  5. 5150 Head and Cab question
    By Reckless Fable in forum Guitar Room
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08.11.02, 02:20 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •