Follow us on...
Follow us on Twitter Follow us on Facebook Watch us on YouTube
Register
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 35
  1. #1
    5150 GOLATTARI's Avatar
    Join Date
    09.25.10
    Age
    26
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    574
    Favorite VH Song

    Unchained!
    Last Online

    12.10.17 @ 11:29 AM
    Likes
    4
    Liked 36 Times in 16 Posts

    Default Live 1986 - LWAN Tone

    I'm really diggin' the W/D/W setup I made based on the FUCK and Balance tones (Peavey 6505, Eventide Pitchfactor and Roland SDE3000 delays).

    However, I notice that even when using the Eventide H949 algorythm at the Pitchfactor I can't get that warm/glitched sound Eddie has on LWAN and on the other 1986 tour videos spread at youtube.

    This leads me to the conclusion that it's because he was still using Marshalls at the time. His tone was much less gainy and somewhat more warm and dry (despite the heavy harmonizer sound).

    Anyone here knows about what model were his Marshalls back then?
    There are some pictures of the 1986 tour backstage at wich we can see a ton of backup Marshalls. Here it goes:



    I've never had a Marshall amp before, thus I'm no familiar with their models. Anyone knows if there is any that could help the W/D/W rig to reproduce the LWAN tone?

    Get Up video, what a tasty tone!
    Last edited by GOLATTARI; 01.14.12 at 09:17 PM.

  2. #2
    Good Enough 5150rob's Avatar
    Join Date
    08.16.05
    Age
    44
    Location
    Ma
    Posts
    1,635
    Favorite VH Album

    Balance
    Favorite VH Song

    Aint Talkin Bout Love
    Last Online

    12.14.17 @ 10:55 AM
    Likes
    338
    Liked 461 Times in 200 Posts

    Default

    yeah that is an amazing tone and I love it myself. Cant wait to see what some of you guys say to this one. I am interested as well with this.

    Rob

  3. #3
    Romeo Delight OokraMoO's Avatar
    Join Date
    05.02.11
    Posts
    105
    Last Online

    10.17.12 @ 03:50 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    This tone is about as much of an enigma as the VH I tone I think.
    No ones ever been able to reproduce it fully.

    I'm not sure what Marshalls those are, obviously I can see some Plexi's there and Ed's wooden one, but the others I'm not too sure.

    Basically I think it was like 5 or 6 Marshalls cranked, with the harmonizer set quite light, maybe -6/+6 cents or even less. There's never really been much info about his gear on that tour.



    Last edited by OokraMoO; 01.15.12 at 06:28 AM.

  4. #4
    Sinner's Swing!
    Join Date
    11.26.10
    Age
    46
    Posts
    3,353
    Last Online

    11.25.17 @ 09:06 AM
    Likes
    1,679
    Liked 1,374 Times in 803 Posts

    Default

    Where to start with the rig difference between Lwan and FUCK onward.
    Lwan was my favorite live sound hands down.
    In the pic above, it's not shown, at least in it's original cabinet but..

    This is how the head looked around the FUCK era. There are pics from around OU812, but the tears in the tolex are the clue. They've been like that for a very long time, as has been the missing logo.
    If you were believe what we were told back in the 80's, he was still primarily using that one good old '66-'67 Plexi variac'd to 90 volts as his main sound into the Palmer Speaker Emulator (load box), Bradshaw rig with the Eventide 949's, Roland delays, and power amps etc. The majority in the pics we've seen were supposedly mostly for backups, maybe some were split, one running to Al's drum riser, one to Mike etc.
    I won't even get into all the comparisons between his sound then and Balance era etc. It's kind of apples and oranges, the Eventides were 30000's, almost glitch free, very fast processing.

    It takes a lot of messing around, but you can get very close to the harmonized tone he had back then with the pitchfactor.

    I'm not sure how your rig is setup, but I've been experimenting with my old Marshall mic'd up, then all the effect, (Harmonizer, delay) after my mic pre, then split left and right center on my mixer.
    I think you are right in that a less gainy amp that's crunchier kind of throws those slight glitches, but you get that blending of the raunchy tone and the smoothed out sound of the harmonizer making the whole mix fuller, more dynamic, and warmer over all.
    When I do the same with my 5150, it's much closer to Balance era without changing a whole lot. (though i bring up the center as dry in the mix, and pan the effects hard left and right for accuracy) It sounds a little more processed without changing to much of the actual pitch shifting, or delay.
    I think there, it's because the 5150's gain structure is much smoother, or in other words, appears to the harmonizer as a higher resolution signal, so you don't have that mix of tones that you had with his old faithful Marshall.
    Last edited by we die young; 01.15.12 at 06:42 AM.

  5. #5
    Sinner's Swing!
    Join Date
    11.26.10
    Age
    46
    Posts
    3,353
    Last Online

    11.25.17 @ 09:06 AM
    Likes
    1,679
    Liked 1,374 Times in 803 Posts

    Default

    It should also be said that in between the 5150 tour ,and OU812, Eddie relied heavily on backups due to almost losing the famous Plexi a few times in transit.
    These are most likely the backups in the pic above. They were sourced from many places around the world to come as close to Ed's tone as possible, though for recording, Ed always relied on 'his baby" by this point.
    I have the info also about Peter Van Wheelden's restoration of Ed's Marshall which I can post later. It's an interesting read.

  6. #6
    On Fire
    Join Date
    04.14.11
    Posts
    345
    Last Online

    10.04.16 @ 10:31 AM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    at least we KNOW he used a EMG 85 for that track live.

  7. #7
    Good Enough nobozos's Avatar
    Join Date
    02.16.00
    Location
    Pekin, Il U.S.A.
    Posts
    1,747
    Last Online

    12.14.17 @ 06:34 PM
    Likes
    22
    Liked 727 Times in 344 Posts

    Default

    I thought I read somewhere that Eddie was secretly using a Soldano at the time?
    "Having an opinion that people disagree with doesn't make you a Douche, arguing with the people who disagree with your opinion and calling them stupid does!" -Me.

  8. #8
    Eruption
    Join Date
    03.20.04
    Posts
    1,374
    Last Online

    06.30.17 @ 01:26 AM
    Likes
    207
    Liked 131 Times in 74 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GOLATTARI View Post
    I'm really diggin' the W/D/W setup I made based on the FUCK and Balance tones (Peavey 6505, Eventide Pitchfactor and Roland SDE3000 delays).

    However, I notice that even when using the Eventide H949 algorythm at the Pitchfactor I can't get that warm/glitched sound Eddie has on LWAN and on the other 1986 tour videos spread at youtube.

    This leads me to the conclusion that it's because he was still using Marshalls at the time. His tone was much less gainy and somewhat more warm and dry (despite the heavy harmonizer sound).

    Anyone here knows about what model were his Marshalls back then?
    There are some pictures of the 1986 tour backstage at wich we can see a ton of backup Marshalls. Here it goes:



    I've never had a Marshall amp before, thus I'm no familiar with their models. Anyone knows if there is any that could help the W/D/W rig to reproduce the LWAN tone?

    Get Up video, what a tasty tone!


    okay, FWIW, first off, the 5150 and OU812 tour sound wasn't really W/D/W, but just stereo with effects. its 1 Marshall head variac'd, into a load box Bob Bradshaw built for him, palmers were not even made yet then plus he never used a palmer as a load, line out from the load into the rack, harmonizers, delays etc, stereo mixer, hush, and then HH V800 out to 2 cabs. then multiple V800's for extra cabs on the stage. i know Bob B pretty well, and he says it really frustrated him that Ed would not put a dry cab right off the amp into the system back then. Bob had the idea for the W/D/W then but EVH just would not go for it, instead favoring the resistive load and the marshall basically acting as a preamp. the main plexi was long gone from touring then. all the extra heads were because of unreliability so there were always 3-4 wired and ready to switch to if the 1st one blew. they are all 4 input, no master, super leads, which were made i think until about 76'?, but i think only a few older plexi type were mainly used along with the brown wood one that may or may have not been the proto Jose made for him circa OU812. i am pretty sure all of this is in print for those of you who will doubt what i am saying.

  9. #9
    Good Enough nobozos's Avatar
    Join Date
    02.16.00
    Location
    Pekin, Il U.S.A.
    Posts
    1,747
    Last Online

    12.14.17 @ 06:34 PM
    Likes
    22
    Liked 727 Times in 344 Posts

    Default

    Hey Tommytom, you seem to know what you're talking about. My memories of this era are pretty fragmented, so tell me if any of my recollections are right or wrong.

    This is what I remember:

    Eddie was using a Soldano SLO for a time, but didn't advertise the fact. When he went into development with Peavey for his 5150 amp, they based the pre-amp of the 5150 off of the Soldano pre-amp.
    "Having an opinion that people disagree with doesn't make you a Douche, arguing with the people who disagree with your opinion and calling them stupid does!" -Me.

  10. #10
    On Fire
    Join Date
    04.14.11
    Posts
    345
    Last Online

    10.04.16 @ 10:31 AM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nobozos View Post
    I thought I read somewhere that Eddie was secretly using a Soldano at the time?
    The SLO is a great amp but eddie didnt start using one till right before the EBMM contract. what i will NEVER UNDERSTAND is why he went to PEAVEY for his amp????
    Mike could have made him ANY tweaked SLO he wanted!

  11. #11
    5150 C5150's Avatar
    Join Date
    01.30.04
    Posts
    640
    Last Online

    10.19.15 @ 11:50 AM
    Likes
    1
    Liked 10 Times in 4 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Charvelstrat_81 View Post
    The SLO is a great amp but eddie didnt start using one till right before the EBMM contract. what i will NEVER UNDERSTAND is why he went to PEAVEY for his amp????
    Mike could have made him ANY tweaked SLO he wanted!
    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ That's why he went to PEAVEY!

  12. #12
    Baluchitherium
    Join Date
    09.11.06
    Age
    41
    Location
    Leicestershire, England
    Posts
    4,484
    Favorite VH Album

    VH1, VHII or Fair Warning
    Favorite VH Song

    They're all great!
    Last Online

    04.02.15 @ 07:26 AM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 5 Times in 2 Posts


    Donor

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by we die young View Post
    I have the info also about Peter Van Wheelden's restoration of Ed's Marshall which I can post later. It's an interesting read.
    I have an interview with him regarding the restoration too. It's a good story.
    http://www.facebook.com/Tommywho5150

    And with that I'm off to the kitchen to make myself a lesbian omelette...LLFHS in response to one of Graeme's post's


    "The anal beads may have scarred SNIC for life. That guy is tough as fucking nails!! No normal guy could take anal beads to the head and survive! "...OLO on SNIC's near death experience at TLW

    "I'm a 45-year-old man, and I still like to wear a thong or a speedo when I go swimming.
    Not because I have a great body, it's just an easy way to make sure I have the hotel swimming pool all to myself."...Bullwinkle for quite obvious reasons!

    "Dude, the cashier gave me the creepiest sneer when he rang up my unmentionables!"...Sassy Lassy during a Facebook conversation!

  13. #13
    Good Enough nobozos's Avatar
    Join Date
    02.16.00
    Location
    Pekin, Il U.S.A.
    Posts
    1,747
    Last Online

    12.14.17 @ 06:34 PM
    Likes
    22
    Liked 727 Times in 344 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Charvelstrat_81 View Post
    The SLO is a great amp but eddie didnt start using one till right before the EBMM contract. what i will NEVER UNDERSTAND is why he went to PEAVEY for his amp????
    Mike could have made him ANY tweaked SLO he wanted!
    Peavey was willing to give him the deal he wanted, and they had the means to mass produce the amplifier. Plus, Eddie could say that the amplifiers were manufactured in the USA.

    Refresh my memory here. First came the 5150 amp from Peavey, then the EBMM guitar. He was frustrated that EBMM wasn't producing his guitar quickly enough (please, let's not go into the rumors about SB/EVH personal stuff) so he switched to Peavey to produce his Wolfgang guitar, because they were already making his amps, and had the means to mass produce the number of guitars he wanted. He couldn't take the original EBMM/EVH design with him, because it wan't really his, (Dudley Gimple already had that guitar designed, and Eddie chose it) so he had to re-design the guitar with Peavey. This time, he had the guitar design registered in his name, which enabled him to take the design with him to Fender for the EVH line.

    Anyway, I thought he was using the SLO as early as the OU812 era, or at least between OU812 and FUCK.
    "Having an opinion that people disagree with doesn't make you a Douche, arguing with the people who disagree with your opinion and calling them stupid does!" -Me.

  14. #14
    Eruption donkost's Avatar
    Join Date
    03.28.08
    Age
    54
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    1,350
    Last Online

    12.14.17 @ 09:23 PM
    Likes
    174
    Liked 93 Times in 37 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 5150rob View Post
    yeah that is an amazing tone and I love it myself. Cant wait to see what some of you guys say to this one. I am interested as well with this.

    Rob
    I'll definitely agree with you on that, and for some freakin' reason that was one tour I missed, although I did see Dave that year. One thing for sure is that this tone leaves no room to hide, and his playing on LWAN is just pure virtuosity. I'm still in awe with the solo on that VCR tape/DVD after watching it God knows how many times. This LWAN tone is probably more difficult to achieve than the VH I album tone because there are so few clues about how to really get it. There are still big questions in the air about the 5150 guitar's contribution to the tone with regard to body wood, pickup, and so on. Funny also how times change- for those old enough to remember do you recall how impressive it was for a guitarist to have a huge rack of gear back then? Now it's more impressive when guitarist's say "I plug right in", just perhaps using a smaller pedal board for a few necessities.

  15. #15
    Good Enough
    Join Date
    12.15.07
    Location
    Iowa/Illinois
    Posts
    1,807
    Favorite VH Album

    Balance
    Last Online

    10.26.16 @ 03:37 PM
    Likes
    2
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nobozos View Post

    Eddie was using a Soldano SLO for a time, but didn't advertise the fact. When he went into development with Peavey for his 5150 amp, they based the pre-amp of the 5150 off of the Soldano pre-amp.
    Having built an amp similar to a SLO100 by hand, and having serviced and modded many 5150s, I've studied both designs extensively -- both amps are brilliantly designed and engineered. The SLO is basically a completely re-engineered Marshall Superlead. And it is so re-engineered that it is to the point of just barely being an evolution of a Superlead, despite being named "Super Lead Overdrive. There are traces of Marshall influence in the SLO, but you gotta give Mike all the credit for making a new and unique beast. (And remember, the Marshall designs were pretty much stolen from the older Fender amps, and the Fender amps were slightly modified ripoffs of even older tube radio designs!)

    Soldano added many gainstages, restructured most of them, made the preamp the main generator of the amps' tone, and then ran that into a super solid power amp section. It did the 'cranked marshall' thing but went about it in a more reliable and different way. (Remember, EVH was going through transformers regularly and tubes daily on his superlead -- and who has the $$$ other than EVH to replace $200+ transformers and $120+ tubes daily or weekly?!?) So the Soldano managed to get that sort of hot rodded feel, but at lower volumes, and do it in an affordable and reliable way. Plus, since the amp had loads more gain, it could go beyond what a superlead could do gain and distortion wise, and it managed to add that gain cleanly and articulately. That's why it's still one of the best amps around -- most amps can't add so much gain without sounding mushy and overly distorted.

    Then the 5150 kinda took off where the SLO left off. There is a lot of SLO 100 influence in the 5150, but again, the 5150 is it's own genius design -- not a complete ripoff or copy job. James Brown deserves a ton of credit. The 5150 has much more tone shaping going on all over the amp, more overall gain, and also has an extra gain stage over the SLO. The power section of the 5150 is also an amazing feat of engineering (and to be fair, is also similar to the SLO100's), and makes the whole amp work.

    Sorry for writing so much but hopefully that helps answer your question. So yes, the natural progression was Marshall Superlead, SLO100, 5150, and then about every other rock amp since then copies one or more of those 3 designs in one way or another.
    Last edited by mrjstudios; 01.15.12 at 12:17 PM.

 

 

Similar Threads

  1. Removing tone knob from guitar changes tone
    By gageroo in forum Guitar Room
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 04.28.09, 08:26 AM
  2. Good Enough - Live 1986
    By chefcraig in forum Van Halen On The Tube
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 12.04.08, 02:26 PM
  3. Live Without A Net Audio 1986
    By caramal in forum Bootleg Network
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 07.14.07, 08:00 PM
  4. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 11.10.06, 11:30 AM
  5. Get up from LWAN?????
    By space4rent5150 in forum Van Halen On The Tube
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09.05.06, 10:31 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •