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  1. #1
    Top Of The World Fat Cabernet's Avatar
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    11.10.14 @ 08:02 PM
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    There are NO old songs on the new album!

    For real though... Yeah I know there are a few tracks on this new album that revisit some demo numbers from the 70's... But the truth is- they were never officially released, they've been reworked and "contemporized" a bit, renamed, new lyrics and for anybody besides us die hards- these tunes may as well have been written from scratch yesterday. Tattoo for example- I mean is there actually a DECENT recording of Down In Flames anywhere out there- cuz can't find one? But what I heard only has distant similarities... Not to mention there are 10 other songs besides the 3 "revisits" that may very well all be brand new music we've never heard before.
    I just think it's funny that there are a few critics out there saying "all VH did is take some stuff they never released from the 70's and record it for the new album."
    "One thing about Ed..., ONE THING about Ed... (heh, heh...), when he has a guitar around his neck, he's not tryin' to bullshit
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  2. #2
    Emperor of VHLinks.com Brett's Avatar
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    What's your point? They're old demos. There are very good live versions of Down in Flames out there and easy to find on YouTube.

    If you think there are only distant similarities you aren't listening well.

    I'm not understanding why it matters anyway.
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  3. #3
    Eruption xk319's Avatar
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    12.16.17 @ 07:06 PM
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    You're right, and most realize that's not true, and also realize that just because a demo wasn't used in the past on an album does not mean it was not good, that's incorrect logic. Plenty of great songs that were early demos showed up much later in the bands career.

    And there are still plenty of great songs Van Halen has not yet released. Hopefully we'll get another album after this one to hear even more of the stuff VH has (both stuff composed now and stuff that's been laying around "in the works" for years from 1974-2011).

  4. #4
    Top Of The World Fat Cabernet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brett View Post
    What's your point? They're old demos. There are very good live versions of Down in Flames out there and easy to find on YouTube.

    If you think there are only distant similarities you aren't listening well.

    I'm not understanding why it matters anyway.
    That IS my point Brett- that it doesn't matter.

    And if you have a link to a great audio of Down In Flames i'd love to hear it- cuz everything i'm finding on you tube is crap i can barely make out.
    "One thing about Ed..., ONE THING about Ed... (heh, heh...), when he has a guitar around his neck, he's not tryin' to bullshit
    anybody." Sammy Hagar, in Charlotte, NC during the Sam & Dave tour, introing into Finish What Ya Started.

  5. #5
    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    12.17.17 @ 03:31 PM
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    It's true that just because something never made an album doesn't mean it's not good. Sometimes it just doesn't feel right for an album. A great example of that is +Live+'s "Hold Me Up". It never made Throwing Copper and then instead of being in the movie Mallrats it was held for Secret Samadhi, but then it DEFINITELY didn't fit that album. Finally it saw the light of day in Zack and Miri Make a Porno, but wasn't on the soundtrack. It still only exists for fans as an mp3 taken from +Live+'s demo cassette, yet it's probably one of their 5 best songs.

    However, saying it's not an old song is just incorrect, even if +Live+ decided to release a rerecorded version of it on their next album with their new singer. The song is at least 17 years old.

    Michael Crichton has put out two "new" books since he died. One is OLD (Pirate Lattitudes). Sure, we had never read it and it is "new" to readers, but it's silly to say that it isn't an old manuscript--it is.
    Last edited by lovemachine97(Version 2); 01.10.12 at 10:47 PM.

  6. #6
    Top Of The World Fat Cabernet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post
    It's true that just because something never made an album doesn't mean it's not good. Sometimes it just doesn't feel right for an album. A great example of that is +Live+'s "Hold Me Up". It never made Throwing Copper and then instead of being in the movie Mallrats it was held for Secret Samadhi, but then it DEFINITELY didn't fit that album. Finally it saw the light of day in Zack and Miri Make a Porno, but wasn't on the soundtrack. It still only exists for fans as an mp3 taken from +Live+'s demo cassette, yet it's probably one of their 5 best songs.

    However, saying it's not an old song is just incorrect, even if +Live+ decided to release a rerecorded version of it on their next album with their new singer. The song is at least 17 years old.

    Michael Crichton has put out two "new" books since he died. One is OLD (Pirate Lattitudes). Sure, we had never read it and it is "new" to readers, but it's silly to say that it isn't an old manuscript--it is.
    Clearly, I poorly shared my thoughts on my idea that these songs are not "old." I understand that they are older material... I did a crappy job of making a point I guess.
    Last edited by Fat Cabernet; 01.10.12 at 10:56 PM. Reason: spelling
    "One thing about Ed..., ONE THING about Ed... (heh, heh...), when he has a guitar around his neck, he's not tryin' to bullshit
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  7. #7
    Emperor of VHLinks.com Brett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Cabernet View Post
    That IS my point Brett- that it doesn't matter.

    And if you have a link to a great audio of Down In Flames i'd love to hear it- cuz everything i'm finding on you tube is crap i can barely make out.
    Well you're not going to get a perfect studio version of the song. Here is a very clear, great live version of it. It's the same song man, except for VH added a new chorus and the bridge.

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  8. #8
    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Cabernet View Post
    Clearly, I poorly shared my thoughts on my idea that these songs are not "old." I understand that they are older material... I did a crappy job of making a point I guess.
    I think an analogy that gets across what you're trying to say is that just because a script is old and Spielberg has been trying to make it for 20 years, once it's made and comes out in 2012 doesn't mean it's an old movie. I can see that perspective.

  9. #9
    Top Of The World Fat Cabernet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brett View Post
    Well you're not going to get a perfect studio version of the song. Here is a very clear, great live version of it. It's the same song man, except for VH added a new chorus and the bridge.

    Thanks for the link!
    And yes I GET that it's the same song- I wasn't saying its not... ya know what forget it.I'm doing a crappy job making my point.
    "One thing about Ed..., ONE THING about Ed... (heh, heh...), when he has a guitar around his neck, he's not tryin' to bullshit
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  10. #10
    Emperor of VHLinks.com Brett's Avatar
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    I think I get your point, but we don't know really what they've changed on these songs. She's the Woman sounded pretty much the same to me except for the bridge that obviously had to be changed. And maybe the lyrics. And hell Bullethead could be identical.
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  11. #11
    Top Of The World Fat Cabernet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post
    I think an analogy that gets across what you're trying to say is that just because a script is old and Spielberg has been trying to make it for 20 years, once it's made and comes out in 2012 doesn't mean it's an old movie. I can see that perspective.
    YES! That's it exactly! Thanks for "Un-fucking the mechanism" that was my garbled perspective!
    "One thing about Ed..., ONE THING about Ed... (heh, heh...), when he has a guitar around his neck, he's not tryin' to bullshit
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  12. #12
    Emperor of VHLinks.com Brett's Avatar
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    I guess I understand the analogy. But these were already songs, an unmade movie is not a movie obviously.
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  13. #13
    Unchained HailNgirl's Avatar
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    So lets safely assume its now '9 albums worth of music' left in Ed's can.
    Yes

  14. #14
    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brett View Post
    I guess I understand the analogy. But these were already songs, an unmade movie is not a movie obviously.
    And that's the flaw in the analogy, but it was the best I could come up with on short notice.

    I think, with a movie, once it's finished and released it's a finished product. The thing about music is that it's more like a play. For example, yes, the definitive version of A Few Good Men is the Rob Reiner movie. But Aaron Sorkin's script continued to get reinterpreted on stage as it was a play before and after the movie.

    As much as I dislike him, Lars Ulrich asked a great question during Some Kind of Monster: When is a song "finished"?

    Which version of "Layla" is the real "Layla"? Was Layla in 1992 an "old" song, or is its reworking worthy of standing on its own? How about when songs are changed by the band when they get played live? Which is the "finished" version of "Walk This Way"?

    In that way, I see Fat's point.

    However, count me in the group that is a little bit disappointed that we have heard, pretty much, at least 3 of the songs on the new album before (and not just before--30 years before).

  15. #15
    Top Of The World Fat Cabernet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brett View Post
    I guess I understand the analogy. But these were already songs, an unmade movie is not a movie obviously.
    True- especially in the case of She's The Woman and Bullethead too I'm going to guess... With Tattoo i feel like the finished product has a much different feel than Down In Flames. But essentually you're right it's the same song tweaked.
    "One thing about Ed..., ONE THING about Ed... (heh, heh...), when he has a guitar around his neck, he's not tryin' to bullshit
    anybody." Sammy Hagar, in Charlotte, NC during the Sam & Dave tour, introing into Finish What Ya Started.

 

 

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