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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk
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    Default and again: Virginia Tech Campus Shootings

    Police Officer Shot on Virginia Tech's Campus, Gunman Sought

    BLACKSBURG, Va. DEVELOPING: A police officer was shot Thursday on Virginia Tech's campus, the university announced on its website.

    A potential second victim has been reported at a campus parking lot.

    The suspect, according to the posting, is described as a white male wearing gray sweatpants and a gray hat with a neon green brim. He was believed to traveling on foot near McComas Hall, a campus gym.

    Messages seeking comment from school officials were not immediately returned.

    "There is an active campus alert in Blacksburg," read a notice on the school's website. "Everyone should seek shelter or stay where you are. Blacksburg Transit service is suspended until the alert is lifted."

    In 2007, a student gunman killed 32 students and faculty and then shot himself on the campus.



    Virginia Tech was on lockdown after two people were killed, the school said Thursday, adding that a suspect remained at large.

    One of the dead is a police officer, the school said.

    Shortly after noon, a Virginia Tech police officer stopped a vehicle for a routine traffic stop in the Coliseum parking lot near McComas Hall, and the officer was shot and killed, school spokesman Mark Owczarski said. There were witnesses, he said.

    The shooter fled on foot toward a parking lot called the cage. At that lot, a second person was found dead, Owczarski said.

    Several law enforcement agencies have responded, including the FBI.

    Virginia State Police have been requested to take the lead in the investigation, Owczarski said.

    The status of the shooter is unknown, he said, calling on the campus community to remain on lockdown. On its website, the school said the suspect remained at large.

    "Suspect described as white male, gray sweat pants, gray hat w/neon green brim, maroon hoodie and backpack. On foot towards McComas," the school said in posts on its website and Twitter feed.

    "There is an active campus alert in Blacksburg," the website says. "Everyone should seek shelter or stay where you are. Blacksburg Transit service is suspended until the alert is lifted."

    Brian Walls, a school employee, told CNN he heard 10 to 15 different sirens go by, and when he looked outside he saw a large group of officers. "I ended up seeing an individual on the ground," he said, and rescue workers appeared to be attempting resuscitation.

    "Then the campus alarm alerts went off," and he got back inside, he said.

    The Cassell Coliseum at Virginia Tech houses athletic facilities. McComas Hall houses exercise facilities.

    In 2007, 33 people were killed when student Seung-Hui Cho went on a shooting rampage at the campus. That took place at West Ambler Johnston Hall, across the street from the Coliseum lot.

    Classes for the semester ended Wednesday. Students were preparing Thursday for final exams.
    "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack. -- Gen. George S. Patton

  2. #2
    Atomic Punk Little Dreamer's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 12:49 PM
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    Hello, metal detectors anyone? Who runs this school?
    I don't know what kind of parents would ever send their kids to a school with shootings every few years.
    Little Dreamer

  3. #3
    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    It would be a logistics nightmare to put metal detectors on almost any college campus.

    Just to throw it out there, I would be interested to see how many of these mass shootings take place in areas where you're not allowed to have guns. Ft. Hood, churches, school campuses, businesses that don't allow it, states that highly restrict it, etc.

    As recently as March of this year, the gun ban at Virginia Tech was being discussed (http://www.thecollegefix.com/post/7292).

  4. #4
    Atomic Punk Little Dreamer's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 12:49 PM
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    How about the logistics nightmare of planning the 35 funerals of the kids who have died in those two shootings? How about the logistics nightmare of planning your kids funeral if it happened to you?

    Gee.
    Little Dreamer

  5. #5
    Eruption
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    05.26.17 @ 11:48 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Dreamer View Post
    How about the logistics nightmare of planning the 35 funerals of the kids who have died in those two shootings? How about the logistics nightmare of planning your kids funeral if it happened to you?

    Gee.
    As if a metal detector would stop someone like the original shooter? "Gee, I might set off the metal detector, so I'm not going to go ahead with my plan to wipe out X number of students." Or, maybe the metal detector operators are just the first ones shot dead?

    At most, it is a slight deterrent, since the confrontation may happen at an entrance instead of deep in a building. It could also reassure the murderer that the victims will be weaponless should he/she get past the screening somehow (which is probably easy).

  6. #6
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    I'm never happy when shootings like this become a political issue (ie we need more gun control or we need less gun control). What you need are less madmen. For whatever reason you guys seem to have far more than your share of them.

  7. #7
    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Dreamer View Post
    How about the logistics nightmare of planning the 35 funerals of the kids who have died in those two shootings? How about the logistics nightmare of planning your kids funeral if it happened to you?

    Gee.
    It's intuitive to think something like that is needed. It's intuitive to think that maybe employees at the twin towers should have had parachutes to jump out the window in case of emergency...


    ...until you realize that 50,000 people jumping out at one time would have been a calamitous calamity.

    My point is that college campuses aren't like public schools. They are HUGE, and wide open. Many people live on campus, many walk to campus, many drive to campus. There can be dozens of parking lots, countless buildings and classrooms, and very little on campus would be enclosed or gated.

    How do you funnel 30,000 people on an open campus into metal detectors?

  8. #8
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post
    It's intuitive to think something like that is needed. It's intuitive to think that maybe employees at the twin towers should have had parachutes to jump out the window in case of emergency...


    ...until you realize that 50,000 people jumping out at one time would have been a calamitous calamity.

    My point is that college campuses aren't like public schools. They are HUGE, and wide open. Many people live on campus, many walk to campus, many drive to campus. There can be dozens of parking lots, countless buildings and classrooms, and very little on campus would be enclosed or gated.

    How do you funnel 30,000 people on an open campus into metal detectors?
    you can't. A campus is like a city. Sadly no amount of gun control (or lack of gun control) will stop this stuff from happening. We just had the anniversary of a madman killing a bunch of women at a Montreal school this week and we have much more powerful gun control laws here.

  9. #9
    Baluchitherium
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    12.14.17 @ 10:41 PM
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    What is it about VT that makes people go nuts? Condolences to the victims' families, this is an even more f'd up thing to do at this time of year.
    "Alcoholism, is like, the only disease you can get yelled at for having" - Mitch
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  10. #10
    Eruption
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    05.26.17 @ 11:48 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    I'm never happy when shootings like this become a political issue (ie we need more gun control or we need less gun control). What you need are less madmen. For whatever reason you guys seem to have far more than your share of them.
    Yeah. It is a big country though.

    In a sociology class I attended a long time ago, some young lady asked the professor why there was so much violence in today's cities. A common thought, a common question when you read about something like this.

    I wasn't a big fan of this teacher, but he gave some interesting answers. I can't relate it all here, and memory has faded a bit, but it did give me something to feel hopeful about, and it sticks with me to this day.

    He took the time to detail how violent people were historically, and also the suffering that whole populations used to endure. He went though some of the things that used to occur in not only the ancient world (Greece, Rome, etc) but relatively recently in places like England (draw and quartering), France (bloodbaths in the French revolution), and Ireland (horrible Potato Famine and English failure to help), plus the Black Plague, barbarian invasions, whole city sieges (with mass starvation) on and on.

    Anyway, he painted a big picture of how horrid things were back then. (We can't forget the accomplishments of those civilizations, and the glory, which cannot be dismissed, but that is not the point he was making).

    Comparatively, living in a modern country like Canada or the USA is like paradise. You have rights, plenty of food, and the level of crime and violence is WAY less, especially when viewed as a percentage of population. Governments cannot inflict horrid punishment and torture on you like they used to. Medical advances and sanitation advances have made life so much better. A real step forward for humans that are fortunate enough to live here at this time in history.

    He also pulled out some interesting research on aggressiveness. He asked if we thought people were, say, more or less aggressive than Chimpanzees? Most of the class thought humans were worse (with our guns and bombs and so on).

    But he showed us studies that were done that measured the relative aggressiveness of Chimps vs. Humans. It turns out if you tried to pack more than a few Chimps together that do not know each other well in an area, you get all kinds of blood and maybe even death. With people, we regularly gather in the thousands for things, and live together in vast communities with some tiny, TINY percentage of violent behavior on a daily basis. His point was humans are hard-wired for the most part to be social and get along with each other, even to non-family and strangers.

    So things may seem bad when you watch or read the news, but you really have to take that with the big picture as well -- most of us rarely get into serious physical danger due to the direct hostility from someone else, day to day. And rare it shall remain into the future.

    Anyway, that was his whole point and it left an impression on me.

  11. #11
    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duck View Post
    Yeah. It is a big country though.

    In a sociology class I attended a long time ago, some young lady asked the professor why there was so much violence in today's cities. A common thought, a common question when you read about something like this.

    I wasn't a big fan of this teacher, but he gave some interesting answers. I can't relate it all here, and memory has faded a bit, but it did give me something to feel hopeful about, and it sticks with me to this day.

    He took the time to detail how violent people were historically, and also the suffering that whole populations used to endure. He went though some of the things that used to occur in not only the ancient world (Greece, Rome, etc) but relatively recently in places like England (draw and quartering), France (bloodbaths in the French revolution), and Ireland (horrible Potato Famine and English failure to help), plus the Black Plague, barbarian invasions, whole city sieges (with mass starvation) on and on.

    Anyway, he painted a big picture of how horrid things were back then. (We can't forget the accomplishments of those civilizations, and the glory, which cannot be dismissed, but that is not the point he was making).

    Comparatively, living in a modern country like Canada or the USA is like paradise. You have rights, plenty of food, and the level of crime and violence is WAY less, especially when viewed as a percentage of population. Governments cannot inflict horrid punishment and torture on you like they used to. Medical advances and sanitation advances have made life so much better. A real step forward for humans that are fortunate enough to live here at this time in history.

    He also pulled out some interesting research on aggressiveness. He asked if we thought people were, say, more or less aggressive than Chimpanzees? Most of the class thought humans were worse (with our guns and bombs and so on).

    But he showed us studies that were done that measured the relative aggressiveness of Chimps vs. Humans. It turns out if you tried to pack more than a few Chimps together that do not know each other well in an area, you get all kinds of blood and maybe even death. With people, we regularly gather in the thousands for things, and live together in vast communities with some tiny, TINY percentage of violent behavior on a daily basis. His point was humans are hard-wired for the most part to be social and get along with each other, even to non-family and strangers.

    So things may seem bad when you watch or read the news, but you really have to take that with the big picture as well -- most of us rarely get into serious physical danger due to the direct hostility from someone else, day to day. And rare it shall remain into the future.

    Anyway, that was his whole point and it left an impression on me.
    Makes a lot of sense. I've always thought (more simply) that there are obviously more crazy-violent people now, but there are more people period. Is the percentage any different? Well, we could actually have a lower percentage of crazy-violent people now and STILL have more crazy-violent people now than we did back then.

    Is it a problem? Yes and no. You always want less violence and death, but we DO have that. Murder rates are on a steady decline. So are rapes and robberies. We're living longer than ever. So even if it is a big deal when this stuff happens, it pales in comparison to the broad picture.

  12. #12
    Atomic Punk Raldo's Avatar
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    Wow....just crazy
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  13. #13
    Atomic Punk
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  14. #14
    Atomic Punk MF5150's Avatar
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    12.14.17 @ 04:54 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Dreamer View Post
    Hello, metal detectors anyone? Who runs this school?
    The shootings happened outside.

    How would metal detectors have prevented this?

    I don't know what kind of parents would ever send their kids to a school with shootings every few years.
    It happened once before this. It's still an educational institution. It's not like the school is in Compton.
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