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Thread: Chord Naming -

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    Unchained Mister T.'s Avatar
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    Default Chord Naming -

    I think that I correctly understand we should only use the 'add' clause when adding an additional note while the 1-3-5 triad is still present such as Cadd9 (C-E-G-D)

    However, does an extended chord (without the add) such as C9 mean the 7 is also present? (C-E-G-B-D)

    If the above is correct,

    when it comes to naming an extended chord without the add, it means that the chord includes a 7 (be it major or dominant); and is to be named to the furthest number note beyond the 7, such as:

    C11 - would be C-E-G-B-F
    C13 - would be C-E-G-B-A.

    I've been trying to clear this up for years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister T. View Post
    I think that I correctly understand we should only use the 'add' clause when adding an additional note while the 1-3-5 triad is still present such as Cadd9 (C-E-G-D)
    I think you are correct.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mister T. View Post
    However, does an extended chord (without the add) such as C9 mean the 7 is also present? (C-E-G-B-D)
    Yes I think so.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mister T. View Post
    If the above is correct,

    when it comes to naming an extended chord without the add, it means that the chord includes a 7 (be it major or dominant); and is to be named to the furthest number note beyond the 7, such as:

    C11 - would be C-E-G-B-F
    C13 - would be C-E-G-B-A.
    I think the chords include all of the "lower" notes...so C11 is C-E-G-B-D-F, and C13 is C-E-G-B-D-F-A. However you don't need to actually include all those notes, for a C13 you might just play C-E-B-A for example.

    By the way, I could be totally wrong about this but this is my understanding of it...cool thread...
    Any musicians near Boston / Cape Cod want to get together and play some VH? I play drums, guitar, keyboard, bass, and I sing. I want to start a VH tribute band. Contact me if interested.

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    AFAIK, gageroo is correct. In general, the 5th (G in a C chord as we are discussing here) is the least important note of a chord, so it can often be omitted.
    In the case of a 13th chord, that is theoretically all 8 notes of the scale-kind of difficult to play on a 6 string! You play the important notes. You can really get the sound of any basic chord with just two notes. A lot of the time with cords like this you can leave the root out to get a better voicing, let the bass player take care of it.
    Maybe some of the jazz guys can elaborate more...


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    All correct info here. Just always be sure you are accurately describing the function of the 3rd and 7th. C9, C major 9, and C minor 9 are different from one another. C9 = C, E, G, Bb, D. C major 9 = C, E, G, B, D. C minor 9 = C, Eb, G, Bb, D. (C minor/major 9 is the goofy one: C, Eb, G, B, D.)

    Are you familiar with suspended chords? This is one guitar players often incorrectly identify. The suspended chord removes the 3rd and replaces it with either a 2 or 4, thus creating a sus2 or sus4. I bring this one up because SO many guitar players call that first position Dsus2 a "Dadd9," which is incorrect because there is no 3rd. Likewise with the barre A shape sus2. I wish I had a dollar for every time I've seen "C9" written on a jobbing gig chart when what they really meant was "Cadd9" (an easy one to spot because there is almost always the typical "G" just before or just after the supposed "C9").
    Last edited by AT; 12.02.11 at 07:04 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AT View Post

    Are you familiar with suspended chords? This is one guitar players often incorrectly identify. The suspended chord removes the 3rd and replaces it with either a 2 or 4, thus creating a sus2 or sus4. I bring this one up because SO many guitar players call that first position Dsus2 a "Dadd9," which is incorrect because there is no 3rd. Likewise with the barre A shape sus2. I wish I had a dollar for every time I've seen "C9" written on a jobbing gig chart when what they really meant was "Cadd9" (an easy one to spot because there is almost always the typical "G" just before or just after the supposed "C9").
    This is where my next questions was heading!



    We commonly see this as A2 - but it should truly be called Asus2.

    Doesn't a true A2 chord still have consecutive 1-2-3-5 notes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister T. View Post
    This is where my next questions was heading!



    We commonly see this as A2 - but it should truly be called Asus2.

    Doesn't a true A2 chord still have consecutive 1-2-3-5 notes?
    Yes--that's an Asus2. There really isn't an "A2" chord, unless we're getting extremely technical and identifying octaves (which guitar players almost never do). The chord you described above would simply be a Cadd9; it has a 3, and it has a 9 (2).

    What's next? (This is actually quite a fun discussion to have here!) Diminished chords?

    C diminished triad: C, Eb, Gb.
    C diminished 7: C, Eb, Gb, Bbb (that's right--a double flat)
    C half-diminished 7: C, Eb, Gb, Bb

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    Quote Originally Posted by AT View Post
    Yes--that's an Asus2. There really isn't an "A2" chord, unless we're getting extremely technical and identifying octaves (which guitar players almost never do). The chord you described above would simply be a Cadd9; it has a 3, and it has a 9 (2).
    In the world of guitar, because the 3rd is so often not in the same octave as the 1 and 5, we tend to look at that B note as a 2 but in the strictest sense it is a 9.

    If a pianist were reading score, they would expect an A2 to be A-B-C#-E in that order.
    Last edited by Mister T.; 12.02.11 at 04:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AT View Post
    All correct info here. Just always be sure you are accurately describing the function of the 3rd and 7th. C9, C major 9, and C minor 9 are different from one another. C9 = C, E, G, Bb, D. C major 9 = C, E, G, B, D. C minor 9 = C, Eb, G, Bb, D. (C minor/major 9 is the goofy one: C, Eb, G, B, D.)

    Are you familiar with suspended chords? This is one guitar players often incorrectly identify. The suspended chord removes the 3rd and replaces it with either a 2 or 4, thus creating a sus2 or sus4. I bring this one up because SO many guitar players call that first position Dsus2 a "Dadd9," which is incorrect because there is no 3rd. Likewise with the barre A shape sus2. I wish I had a dollar for every time I've seen "C9" written on a jobbing gig chart when what they really meant was "Cadd9" (an easy one to spot because there is almost always the typical "G" just before or just after the supposed "C9").
    +10000

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister T. View Post
    I think that I correctly understand we should only use the 'add' clause when adding an additional note while the 1-3-5 triad is still present such as Cadd9 (C-E-G-D)

    However, does an extended chord (without the add) such as C9 mean the 7 is also present? (C-E-G-B-D)

    If the above is correct,

    when it comes to naming an extended chord without the add, it means that the chord includes a 7 (be it major or dominant); and is to be named to the furthest number note beyond the 7, such as:

    C11 - would be C-E-G-B-F
    C13 - would be C-E-G-B-A.

    I've been trying to clear this up for years.

    I typically explain at it as follows:

    'Add__' means 'there's no 7, but yet there's a __'.

    'Sus__' means 'instead of a 3, there's a __'. (In some schools of thought, the only suspendable note is the 4th, and a 'sus2' is merely an inversion of a sus4, which is only labelled as 'sus' as the 4 is implied.) Also keep in mind that a suspension is not technically a chord, but we use them (and thus name them) as if they were.

 

 

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