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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk
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    California student punished for a "Bless You" response to a sneeze...

    Teacher punished students for saying ‘Bless You’ in class

    http://www.fox40.com/videobeta/212fd...ing-Bless-You-

    A Vacaville high school teacher said he will come up with a different way to keep order in class after complaints that he was knocking 25 points off the grades of students saying "Bless you" after a sneeze.

    The teacher, Steve Cuckovich, told FOX 40 Sacramento that the point deduction had nothing to do with religion.

    "It's got to do with an interruption of class time," he said.

    He said a student would sneeze, prompting several students to say "Bless You." The sneezer would then thank each of the students who said "Bless you."

    Students declared Cuckovich's discipline "messed up."

    And one parent, Alan Johnson, said, "I think that's ridiculous. First the Pledge of Allegiance, now preventing a kid from saying 'Bless you?'"

    Cuckovich told the television station that saying "God bless you," doesn't make sense anymore. He said it was initially a way to dispel evil spirits out of the body.

    Principal Cliff DeGraw said the teacher realizes that there is a better way to keep order in the class. "We don't condone that type of punishment," DeGraw said.

    __________________________________________

    SACRAMENTO (KABC) -- There's controversy at a high school near Sacramento after a teacher punished a student for saying "bless you."

    A health teacher in Vacaville knocked 25 points from one student's grade for saying "bless you" when another student sneezed in class.

    The teacher said his policy has nothing to do with religion - he just doesn't want class time to be disrupted.

    "When you sneeze in the old days, they thought you were dispelling evil spirits out of your body. So they were saying, 'God bless you' for getting rid of evil spirits. But today, I said, what you're doing doesn't really make any sense anymore," said teacher Steve Cuckovich.

    The school said it doesn't condone the punishment, and many parents agree, saying the teacher doesn't have the right to impose his beliefs on other people.

    http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/video?id=8373008

    __________________________________________

    "It was brought to the District’s attention a few days ago that students were disciplined for being disruptive in class. The teacher believed that students were dramatically sneezing and responding inrepetitive fashion “Bless You”. One of the concerns is the social convention of saying “Gesundheit”, “God Bless You”, or “Bless You” after someone sneezes. Of question is whether a series of these repeated remarks by several students constitutes freedom of speech or a classroom disruption and merits student discipline. Vacaville Unified’s Administration is continuing its investigation of this reported classroom disruption. We are reviewing the impact of this disruption and the student grading policy. Certainly a blessing by one individual to another after a sneeze is a welcomed acknowledgement of a social norm. Hopefully it is not abused as a disruption of classroom instructional activities." Dr. John Niederkorn, Superintendent.


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    Last edited by voivod; 09.30.11 at 11:45 AM.
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  2. #2
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    If this is true it should have never hit the news unless it was to talk about his firing.

  3. #3
    carpe damn diem billy007's Avatar
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    I could see it going either way - if it was just a case of a kid sneezing and another kid saying "bless you", then the punishment is overboard. However, I can certainly picture a room full of kids starting to fake sneeze and giggling and being disruptive.

  4. #4
    Atomic Punk Wruff_ajax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billy007 View Post
    I could see it going either way - if it was just a case of a kid sneezing and another kid saying "bless you", then the punishment is overboard. However, I can certainly picture a room full of kids starting to fake sneeze and giggling and being disruptive.
    But do ya think that if the dumbass teacher didn't make the stupid "no bless you" rule in the first place that the students wouldn't have then been provoking him by doing it on purpose just to piss him off? Hello??

    Good for the students making a mockery of his stupid ass.



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  5. #5
    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    This is a very deceptive title. This is the media making a mountain out of a molehill. The student was disciplined for talking in class when he or she was not supposed to, not because of religion.

    I have first hand experience at this. Classroom management is ESSENTIAL to learning. If you don't have control of the class, then no one learns. I am nearing the end of the credentialing process for secondary teaching in California. I have done a quarter of 9th grade English and am currently nearing halfway through a quarter teaching 7th and 8th grade Language Arts.

    The two main classes that I have taken over have 41 and 43 students. Their lack of discipline and talking was atrocious. One theory handed down from my father was to, if the entire class was talking, start putting time on the board in five second increments. Soon the students wonder what you're doing, and you tell them that it is time they are taking from you, so you are taking it from them during their passing period. I started using this, and in the first week I had classes accumulating a minute and a half of time. For a day or two I STARTED at 1 minute they owed me and began counting down as they were good. By the end of the second week, most classes are now not incurring any time, and if they are it is only five or 10 seconds. The class disciplines itself. Now, if it is one or a few students, I can address them specifically.

    You only have 52 minutes per day. You're lucky if the students are ready to work in the first minute or two Now you're below 50 minutes. They have a journal entry to do with a prompt on the board, then it's time for standardized test-oriented work. The last 20 minutes or so of class are to teach and work on a specific skill. You basically have about 40 minutes a day to introduce a skill, make it meaningful, make sure the students know WHY they need it, and to let them practice it before you move on to the next skill(s) the next day.

    I have students, in the same 7th grade class, that test from below 1st grade level to just below GATE. Trying to utilize 52 minutes with 43 students who are at vastly different levels is EXTREMELY difficult, and it only gets worse when 1 distraction sends the students careening off topic. The almost-GATE student may get it immediately and then be bored and cause trouble, and you have to work with that while you're helping the kid at 1st grade level even READ the work you've given them. Classroom management is, again, essential.

    I have had a sneeze fit by a student devolve into a round of bless you's which creates laughter, which goes into "eeewwwww" as the student needs to blow their nose. Then another student talks about a gross sneeze they saw, then side conversations start happening, and soon you're either screaming at the students to stop or putting time on the board, but either way now you're down a couple minutes of valuable time.

    If you punish SOME people for talking out of turn, but not others (including "bless you"), then you get student complaints about fairness and parental complaints. Then, because students are so literal, you have to come up with a list of things they can and can't say out of turn. They may complain that you ARE allowing "religious" talk but not others, and you could get in trouble for that. The best way is to not allow talking out of turn.

    A good teacher will have his students having fun, but will also be able to get them quiet when they need to be quiet. In order to do that, sometimes you just can't let a sneeze distract the entire class.

    Of course, that's just my opinion, I am often wrong.

  6. #6
    carpe damn diem billy007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wruff_ajax View Post
    But do ya think that if the dumbass teacher didn't make the stupid "no bless you" rule in the first place that the students wouldn't have then been provoking him by doing it on purpose just to piss him off? Hello??

    Good for the students making a mockery of his stupid ass.



    AAAAAAHHHHHCHOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
    Oh, definitely, but to me, the various articles didn't make it clear that that was the order of events. One of the article makes it sound as if the fake sneezing came after the legitimate sneeze and he started taking away points. That's why I said it could go either way - depending on how things actually went down.

  7. #7
    Gird your loins Daisy Hill's Avatar
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    12.12.17 @ 04:03 PM
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    this kind of crap is just one of the many reasons why our schools are fd up.

    Teachers have to be given the right to discipline their students and set the parameters for what is acceptable.

    There is no reason to say Bless you ...or Gesundheit ....or Bob's your uncle or anything else to someone who sneezes.....its a SNEEZE, not a conversation! there is no need for a response....they make it sound like he is trying to keep these children from practicing religion!

    What is the difference between that and the entire class commenting en masse every time someone farted, or coughed, or their stomach rumbled?

    it's just another bodily function that does not require any further attention

    geez

    survivor of the Bowling Green Massacre 9-3-2016 BGSU 10 OSU 77

    She was warned. She was given an explanation. Nevertheless, she persisted.

  8. #8
    Atomic Punk
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    If this is true it should have never hit the news unless it was to talk about his firing.
    Fired?

    Lol.

    He overreacted and now you are.
    Utilize. Improvise. Adapt. Overcome.

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  9. #9
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hagarfn View Post
    Fired?

    Lol.

    He overreacted and now you are.
    absolutely not. If a teacher starts docking 25% off a kids grade for something this silly without getting his/her principal signing off on such a policy then this person does not belong in a classroom. This person's judgement (if the story is what it sounds like) stinks. You should demand better from those teaching children.

  10. #10
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post
    This is a very deceptive title. This is the media making a mountain out of a molehill. The student was disciplined for talking in class when he or she was not supposed to, not because of religion.

    I have first hand experience at this. Classroom management is ESSENTIAL to learning. If you don't have control of the class, then no one learns. I am nearing the end of the credentialing process for secondary teaching in California. I have done a quarter of 9th grade English and am currently nearing halfway through a quarter teaching 7th and 8th grade Language Arts.

    The two main classes that I have taken over have 41 and 43 students.
    Their lack of discipline and talking was atrocious. One theory handed down from my father was to, if the entire class was talking, start putting time on the board in five second increments. Soon the students wonder what you're doing, and you tell them that it is time they are taking from you, so you are taking it from them during their passing period. I started using this, and in the first week I had classes accumulating a minute and a half of time. For a day or two I STARTED at 1 minute they owed me and began counting down as they were good. By the end of the second week, most classes are now not incurring any time, and if they are it is only five or 10 seconds. The class disciplines itself. Now, if it is one or a few students, I can address them specifically.

    .
    please tell me that's a misprint.

  11. #11
    Atomic Punk
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    If many of the students were goofing off with silly fake sneezes and such, then why would the teacher take the time to use this as an excuse, "When you sneeze in the old days, they thought you were dispelling evil spirits out of your body. So they were saying, 'God bless you' for getting rid of evil spirits. But today, I said, what you're doing doesn't really make any sense anymore," - rather than just state the fact that numerous students were being distruptive?
    "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.” -- Gen. George S. Patton

  12. #12
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voivod View Post
    If many of the students were goofing off with silly fake sneezes and such, then why would the teacher take the time to use this as an excuse, "When you sneeze in the old days, they thought you were dispelling evil spirits out of your body. So they were saying, 'God bless you' for getting rid of evil spirits. But today, I said, what you're doing doesn't really make any sense anymore," - rather than just state the fact that numerous students were being distruptive?
    probably because he's an idiot that doesn't belong teaching kids.

  13. #13
    Atomic Punk
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    absolutely not. If a teacher starts docking 25% off a kids grade for something this silly without getting his/her principal signing off on such a policy then this person does not belong in a classroom. This person's judgement (if the story is what it sounds like) stinks. You should demand better from those teaching children.
    Like I said, I believe he most likely overreacted. The principal can still have a conversation with him about the course of action he took. If said principal decides it was the wrong action ,then you simply return the kids grades to what they were. Hardly a fireable offense.

    Jesus.

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  14. #14
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hagarfn View Post
    Like I said, I believe he most likely overreacted. The principal can still have a conversation with him about the course of action he took. If said principal decides it was the wrong action ,then you simply return the kids grades to what they were. Hardly a fireable offense.

    Jesus.

    Bless you.
    it speaks to the judgement of this teacher. I wouldn't want him teaching kids.


    Full disclosure, I think teachers should be paid a hell of a lot more money than this clown is getting and would be incredibly picky about who I would hire. When you're paying teachers nothing and having them teach 40 kids at a time (like was mentioned in a previous thread) then you're stuck with Mr Good Judgement.

  15. #15
    Sinner's Swing! Wickett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    please tell me that's a misprint.
    +1

    With all respect, not sure how ANYONE can teach a class of 40+ students at that age. One of the reasons we got the hell out of Broward County school system.
    Don't drink the Jim Jones punch. They're called theToxic Twins for a reason...

 

 

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