Follow us on...
Follow us on Twitter Follow us on Facebook Watch us on YouTube
Register
Results 1 to 13 of 13
  1. #1
    Atomic Punk
    Join Date
    01.29.02
    Age
    49
    Location
    somewhere over the rainbow
    Posts
    22,946
    Last Online

    12.11.17 @ 04:37 PM
    Likes
    842
    Liked 1,229 Times in 448 Posts

    Gibson Guitar Corp. Responds to Federal Raid



    Federal agents swooped in on Gibson Guitar Wednesday, raiding factories and offices in Memphis and Nashville, seizing several pallets of wood, electronic files and guitars. The Feds are keeping mum, but in a statement yesterday Gibson’s chairman and CEO, Henry Juszkiewicz, defended his company’s manufacturing policies, accusing the Justice Department of bullying the company. “The wood the government seized Wednesday is from a Forest Stewardship Council certified supplier,” he said, suggesting the Feds are using the aggressive enforcement of overly broad laws to make the company cry uncle.

    It isn’t the first time that agents of the Fish and Wildlife Service have come knocking at the storied maker of such iconic instruments as the Les Paul electric guitar, the J-160E acoustic-electric John Lennon played, and essential jazz-boxes such as Charlie Christian’s ES-150. In 2009 the Feds seized several guitars and pallets of wood from a Gibson factory, and both sides have been wrangling over the goods in a case with the delightful name “United States of America v. Ebony Wood in Various Forms.”

    The question in the first raid seemed to be whether Gibson had been buying illegally harvested hardwoods from protected forests, such as the Madagascar ebony that makes for such lovely fretboards. And if Gibson did knowingly import illegally harvested ebony from Madagascar, that wouldn’t be a negligible offense. Peter Lowry, ebony and rosewood expert at the Missouri Botanical Garden, calls the Madagascar wood trade the “equivalent of Africa’s blood diamonds.” But with the new raid, the government seems to be questioning whether some wood sourced from India met every regulatory jot and tittle.

    It isn’t just Gibson that is sweating. Musicians who play vintage guitars and other instruments made of environmentally protected materials are worried the authorities may be coming for them next.
    "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.” -- Gen. George S. Patton

  2. #2
    Sinner's Swing!
    Join Date
    11.26.10
    Age
    46
    Posts
    3,353
    Last Online

    11.25.17 @ 09:06 AM
    Likes
    1,679
    Liked 1,374 Times in 803 Posts

    Default

    I've had my issues with Gibson, and their pricing, (Part of which I think may have singled them out above the other manufactures.) but it is pretty frightening that the Government can do this. Like he said...they havn't even been charged, yet they are potentially in criminal violation if they ship from their factory.
    As well...anyone selling an instrument privately is also technically in violation, so I'm guessing Craigslist is being monitored by the Feds also. I'd love to know who actually pulled the trigger on this raid.
    Back when Christ was a cowboy, this kinda stuff just didn't go on.
    Now a SWAT team can enter your business for building a fucking guitar!
    The good ol' days appear to be nothing but a memory.
    Last edited by we die young; 08.27.11 at 01:45 PM.

  3. #3
    Eruption timmac's Avatar
    Join Date
    07.14.04
    Age
    49
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    1,326
    Favorite VH Album

    VH I
    Favorite VH Song

    Mean Street
    Last Online

    11.25.17 @ 10:26 AM
    Likes
    1
    Liked 12 Times in 3 Posts


    Donor

    Default

    Ahhh, now it makes sense. Ted Nugent tonight on stage said he was playing a Gibson and challenged the feds to come and get it from him. I wondered what the hell he was talking about, guess this explains it.
    Nothing to see here.

  4. #4
    Hot For Teacher riddick's Avatar
    Join Date
    03.03.03
    Age
    39
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    300
    Favorite VH Album

    F.U.C.K.
    Favorite VH Song

    Human's Being
    Last Online

    12.12.17 @ 09:48 PM
    Likes
    1
    Liked 5 Times in 3 Posts

    Default

    This arrhh is arrrhhh the aaarrrhhhh only aaarrrhhhh guy aaarrrhhhh they arrrhhh could aarrrhhh find aaarrrhhh to aaarrrh speak aarrrhhh on aaarrrhhh Gibsons aaarrrhhh behalf.

    A mate bought one of their custom shop Les Pauls, he spent a fortune on it, he brought it to band practice for me to try, l lasted half a song. Gibson ain't what it used to be and l doubt they'll ever be the same. Wood, they'll sound better of they were made out of plastic.

    Scott.

  5. #5
    Hang 'Em High jetguy5150's Avatar
    Join Date
    04.19.04
    Location
    Burlington, On, Canada, Earth
    Posts
    6,142
    Favorite VH Album

    F.U.C.K. 1984
    Favorite VH Song

    Feels So Good (deal with it...
    Last Online

    12.12.17 @ 11:16 AM
    Likes
    582
    Liked 426 Times in 228 Posts


    Premium Member

    Donor

    Default

    I am sure this will all work out...no need to fret.
    Signature not currently available. You aren't missing much.

  6. #6
    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    06.05.03
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    13,968
    Last Online

    12.12.17 @ 10:51 PM
    Likes
    813
    Liked 3,108 Times in 1,820 Posts


    Premium Member

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by we die young View Post
    I've had my issues with Gibson, and their pricing, (Part of which I think may have singled them out above the other manufactures.) but it is pretty frightening that the Government can do this. Like he said...they havn't even been charged, yet they are potentially in criminal violation if they ship from their factory.
    As well...anyone selling an instrument privately is also technically in violation, so I'm guessing Craigslist is being monitored by the Feds also. I'd love to know who actually pulled the trigger on this raid.
    Back when Christ was a cowboy, this kinda stuff just didn't go on.
    Now a SWAT team can enter your business for building a fucking guitar!
    The good ol' days appear to be nothing but a memory.
    Remember the new regulations that came into play when Mattel had to recall a bunch of chinese toys due to lead (as a side note, Mattel is exempted from the new regulations their problems prompted)?

    Anyway, the same kind of worries apply there too. People selling old stuff at yard sales and used book stores could be subject to the same regulations and enforcement. Small-time, hand-made toy manufacturers must go through extensive and expensive testing (that Mattel doesn't have to) even if the toys are hand made from a block of wood, putting these companies out of business.

    If Gibson is knowingly violating the law, then they should be punished.

  7. #7
    Eruption
    Join Date
    05.11.05
    Posts
    1,024
    Last Online

    10.19.17 @ 03:51 PM
    Likes
    1
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Agreed. If Gibson is screwing up (as they have been known to before), then you look into their practices. And sorry, I know the fed is a punching bag right now. But if you are like Gibson who has went over the line on regs and laws before, you open yourself up to this. Funny that if the feds did anything like this under Bush, you didn't hear from Nugent then. You can't pick and choose when you like the gov't and when you don't. They all do it. This isn't Obama calling Gibson and your freedom in question, just like it wasn't when Bush did it. Get over it, Uncle Teddy. I just saw you and you CRANK. Love ya, but find another soap box. If you've seen Ted lately, his whole stage has a huge Gibson display. Wonder if he'd say a word if he wasn't tied to Gibson. (i.e. MONEY)

    At the same time, if there were literally millions of dollars being spent on this, I would then question the legitimacy of our tax dollars being spent in some places\on some issues but not on other things right now. Sorry, in my opinion, this isn't the highest of areas to place priority and (shrinking) federal funds. FEMA is broke and is losing control on the ability to help disaster areas, and our families are worried about reductions to health coverage and social security benefits that they already paid for, and we are talking about this? I know that doesn't mean that there should be no enforcement, but it's just a question (does this make sense monetarily?). It's the same argument as the fight against marijuana (the money side of it is the same argument, that is).

  8. #8
    Atomic Punk Lodewijk's Avatar
    Join Date
    02.15.03
    Age
    47
    Location
    Spring, TX.
    Posts
    13,543
    Favorite VH Album

    Fair Warning
    Favorite VH Song

    She's The Woman, Mean Street
    Last Online

    05.21.17 @ 06:59 AM
    Likes
    6
    Liked 44 Times in 20 Posts


    Donor

    Lode's Facebook
    @Lode13 on Twitter

  9. #9
    5150 Things Change's Avatar
    Join Date
    07.13.11
    Location
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Posts
    602
    Favorite VH Album

    The new one, Hopefully!
    Favorite VH Song

    Impossible
    Last Online

    04.18.17 @ 03:53 PM
    Likes
    4
    Liked 102 Times in 54 Posts

    Default Gibson guitar factory raided.

    Could someone move my post I posted in the guitar forum here? At least it could be discussed then. Thanx.

  10. #10
    Eruption phast's Avatar
    Join Date
    11.08.99
    Location
    Dayton Ohio USA
    Posts
    746
    Favorite VH Album

    Fair Warning=Dave 5150=Sammy
    Favorite VH Song

    Unchained or Summer Nights
    Last Online

    11.09.16 @ 04:17 AM
    Likes
    5
    Liked 65 Times in 41 Posts

    Default

    Gibson CEO: Obama Administration Told Us Our Problems Would Go Away If We Used Madagascar Labor (Audio)


    http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011...r-labor-audio/

  11. #11
    Atomic Punk
    Join Date
    01.29.02
    Age
    49
    Location
    somewhere over the rainbow
    Posts
    22,946
    Last Online

    12.11.17 @ 04:37 PM
    Likes
    842
    Liked 1,229 Times in 448 Posts

    Default

    Gibson: Feds Want Guitar Woodwork Done by Foreign Labor

    Gibson Guitar Corp. is claiming the Obama administration wants more of its woodwork done overseas, as a bizarre battle heats up between the government and one of the country's most renowned guitar makers.

    The dispute started in 2009, when federal agents raided the company over suspect wood shipments from Madagascar. Gibson took that case to court but has denounced the administration with a vengeance after agents returned late last month to raid several Gibson factories -- this time out of concern that Indian export laws had been violated.

    Though some reports on the dispute have cited environmental concerns, court documents suggest the latest battle boils down to a simple, non-environmental question -- which country is working on the wood?

    Gibson's CEO has said repeatedly that the only reason his company is in trouble is because U.S. workers are completing work on guitar fingerboards in the United States. In an interview earlier this week, CEO Henry Juszkiewicz claimed that the U.S. government even suggested Gibson's troubles would disappear if the company used foreign labor.

    The Justice Department is hamstrung from talking about the case because it's an ongoing investigation. Justice spokesman Wyn Hornbuckle told FoxNews.com only that agents were looking for evidence of "possible violations" of a law governing imports of plants and wildlife.

    Hornbuckle also confirmed that no charges have yet been filed in either of the two cases.

    Court documents help explain the root of the tree dispute. According to search warrants associated with the latest raid, federal agents in June intercepted a shipment of Indian ebony apparently bound for Gibson in Tennessee. The documents noted that Indian law "prohibits the export of sawn wood," which can be used for fingerboards -- but does not prohibit the export of "veneers," which are sheets of woods that have already been worked on.

    The search warrants alleged that the intercepted shipment was "falsely declared" as veneer, something that would have been legal. However, the documents said the ebony was in fact unfinished "sawn wood," supposedly illegal.

    This led to the raid on Gibson facilities late last month.

    Juszkiewicz said in a statement that the U.S. government has effectively suggested "that the use of wood from India that is not finished by Indian workers is illegal, not because of U.S. law, but because it is the Justice Department's interpretation of a law in India."

    A representative at the Indian Embassy in Washington could not be reached for comment.

    But Juszkiewicz has since claimed that his company's wood exports do in fact comply with Indian law, even if American workers are doing some of the work.

    In an interview on the company website, Juszkiewicz said Gibson "for decades" has purchased fingerboard wood that is two-thirds finished.

    "The fact that American workers are completing the work in the United States makes it illegal," he said, citing the government's position.

    Juszkiewicz maintains Gibson is still complying with the law.
    "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.” -- Gen. George S. Patton

  12. #12
    Atomic Punk
    Join Date
    01.29.02
    Age
    49
    Location
    somewhere over the rainbow
    Posts
    22,946
    Last Online

    12.11.17 @ 04:37 PM
    Likes
    842
    Liked 1,229 Times in 448 Posts

    Default

    Over half a million down the drain for Gibson, not to mention whatever it has spent on attorney’s fees and business it has lost.
    _____________________________________________

    Federal prosecutors on Monday announced a deal to drop a criminal case against Gibson Guitar Corporation after the instrument maker acknowledged its importations of exotic wood violated environmental laws.

    Gibson Guitar is paying hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines and foreiting possession of wood product used in guitars, based on the trumped up claim that it violated Indian law (and thereby a provision in U.S. law) in purchasing the “endangered” wood, as reported by The Christian Science Monitor.

    Nashville-based Gibson agreed to pay a $300,000 penalty, forfeit claims to about $262,000 worth of wood seized by federal agents and contribute $50,000 to the National Fish and Wildlife Foundation to promote the conservation of protected tree species.

    "The agreement is fair and just in that it assesses serious penalties for Gibson's behavior while allowing Gibson to continue to focus on the business of making guitars," U.S. Attorney Jerry Martin said in a statement.

    The privately held company is considered one of the top makers of acoustic and electric guitars, including the iconic Les Paul introduced in 1952.

    "We felt compelled to settle as the costs of proving our case at trial would have cost millions of dollars and taken a very long time to resolve," CEO Henry Juszkiewicz said in a statement late Monday night.

    "This allows us to get back to the business of making guitars," he said, noting that the settlement would allow them to continue sourcing rosewood and ebony from India as it has for decades.

    Gibson's decision to cooperate with the federal Lacey Act banning the import of endangered wood products stood in contrast to a publicity campaign mounted in protest after agents raided Gibson facilities in Memphis and Nashville.

    Juszkiewicz at the time, denounced the raids as overzealous federal regulation that threatened American jobs. He reiterated the criticism Monday.

    "We feel that Gibson was inappropriately targeted, and a matter that could have been addressed with a simple contact a caring human being representing the government," he said in his statement. "Instead, the Government used violent and hostile means with the full force of the US Government and several armed law enforcement agencies costing the tax payer millions of dollars and putting a job creating US manufacture at risk and at a competitive disadvantage.

    A few weeks after the raids, a company spokesman claimed that a federal agent had "lied" in affidavits claiming the CEO knew the wood seized by authorities was illegally imported.

    Those affidavits supporting the search warrant that authorized the raids alleged that shipments of imported Indian ebony and rosewood were given false labels to circumvent import restrictions.

    The settlement says a Gibson employee learned during a 2008 trip to Madagascar — the source of some of the ebony wood that was seized — that it was illegal to import unfinished wood and sent a report about it to his superiors, including company President David Berryman.

    The exotic woods used in such guitars are considered integral to the sound. And artists who have played Gibson instruments range widely from Chet Atkins and Maybelle Carter in country to Pete Townshend of The Who and Eric Clapton in rock to Larry Carlton and Paul in jazz.

    George Gruhn, who owns a vintage guitar shop in Nashville, said he wasn't surprised that Gibson officials accepted the settlement.

    "Regardless of the merits of the case on either side, it would have cost more than that by far to pursue it," he said. "Even if they thought they conceivably they could win, it would have probably cost more than $1 million to do it."

    Gruhn said the resolution of the Gibson case doesn't ease his concerns about the Lacey Act, which initially halted the trade in endangered wildlife goods, like ivory, but in 2008 added rare woods to the import ban.

    "The problem is that virtually every instrument prior to 1970 contains Brazilian rosewood," he said. "Even on a Gibson LGO, which was their cheapest student guitar."

    Justice and Interior Department officials said in a September letter that those who "unknowingly possess" an instrument made from illegally imported materials don't have a criminal problem.

    Last year, Blackburn and fellow U.S. Reps. Jim Cooper of Nashville, a Democrat, introduced legislation they said would protect people from charges for unknowingly possessing illegally imported wood, and would require the federal government to establish a database of forbidden wood sources.

    A coalition of environmental, logging industry and musicians' groups oppose the measure.
    "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.” -- Gen. George S. Patton

  13. #13
    Atomic Punk
    Join Date
    01.29.02
    Age
    49
    Location
    somewhere over the rainbow
    Posts
    22,946
    Last Online

    12.11.17 @ 04:37 PM
    Likes
    842
    Liked 1,229 Times in 448 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by phast View Post
    Gibson CEO: Obama Administration Told Us Our Problems Would Go Away If We Used Madagascar Labor (Audio)

    http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011...r-labor-audio/
    The federal government first raided Gibson in November 2009 because of an earlier shipment of ebony from Madagascar that was also alleged to have been exported illegally from that country.

    Legal representatives for Gibson Guitars argue that if the wood products had been “finished” in India or Madagascar, the company’s actions would have been be perfectly legal.

    Thus, they argue, the federal government is actually taking actions that would encourage outsourcing.

    “I think they’re taking the position that we should be shifting these jobs overseas,” Bruce Mitchell, the chief legal counsel for Gibson, told Fox News. ”We have – probably 40 people in our factory here just at USA who are doing the inlays into the fingerboard … that are putting the fret on. If all that was to be done over in India, then … those jobs would be lost.”
    "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.” -- Gen. George S. Patton

 

 

Similar Threads

  1. Feds raid Gibson guitar factory
    By smithtone in forum Guitar Room
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 09.02.11, 07:25 PM
  2. Gibson Guitar plant in Nashville raided by feds
    By Reckless Fable in forum Guitar Room
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 11.22.09, 10:02 AM
  3. Gibson Robot Guitar
    By Zahzoo in forum Guitar Room
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 12.01.07, 03:21 PM
  4. Need help with a Gibson guitar
    By batzilla in forum Guitar Room
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 12.03.06, 02:48 PM
  5. Gibson guitar
    By YankeeRose69 in forum Guitar Room
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 08.15.01, 10:19 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •