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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk
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    Default Global Warming/Climate Change/Climate Disruption thread

    The Alien shit got me to thinking that maybe it's time to create a thread dedicated to Global Warming info. Mostly it will be info that goes against the likes of Al Gore and Dr. James Hansen. Even though I'm not much a science guy, it's only fair to spread news from the other side of the argument.

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    BREAKING NEWS – CERN Experiment Confirms Cosmic Rays Influence Cloud Seeds



    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/08/2...ange/#comments

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    La Niña Watch issued for next 6 months


    PORTLAND – A La Niña Watch has been issued for the Northern Hemisphere by the National Weather Service’s Climate Prediction Center.

    http://www.nwcn.com/





    It appears that the world’s top-rated climatologist had it backwards.

    Quote:
    Based on subsurface ocean temperatures, the way these have progressed the past several months, and comparisons with development of prior El Niños, we believe that the system is moving toward a strong El Niño starting this summer

    James Hansen – March 2011

    http://www.truth-out.org/

    Good call James

  4. #4
    Atomic Punk Little Dreamer's Avatar
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    It all comes from a misnomer. It should be called "climate crisis" instead of "global warming."

    What I don't understand is suppose for a minute that it's all a hoax (I don't believe it is).

    But we still get off fossil fuel, have less cars on the road, with better mileage, etc.

    Wouldn't less pollution be a GOOD THING in our cities anyways??? I live in LA and if my son breathes less polluted air, all the better. There are too many cars burning up too much fuel, putting too much money in the pocket of the Saudis. That's really a fact, and facts are not "liberal" nor "conservative," they're just facts.
    Little Dreamer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Dreamer View Post
    It all comes from a misnomer. It should be called "climate crisis" instead of "global warming."

    What I don't understand is suppose for a minute that it's all a hoax (I don't believe it is).

    But we still get off fossil fuel, have less cars on the road, with better mileage, etc.

    Wouldn't less pollution be a GOOD THING in our cities anyways??? I live in LA and if my son breathes less polluted air, all the better. There are too many cars burning up too much fuel, putting too much money in the pocket of the Saudis. That's really a fact, and facts are not "liberal" nor "conservative," they're just facts.
    Like I said, I'm not a science guy... But the media bombards people with Pro Global Warming stuff. I didn't think there was anyone out there making counter arguments. Until I stumbled on some of these sites.

    From what I understand, we can't get off fossil fuels anytime soon. I'm sure sooner or later we will get there... But unless I have it wrong, fossil fuels is the cheapest source, and with the economy in the shape that it's in people sure can't afford any other way right now.

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    This is a recent article that suggest that China's coal use is the reason for the lack of Global Warming since 1998.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14002264

    The lull in global warming from 1998 to 2008 was mainly caused by a sharp rise in China's coal use, a study suggests.

    Here is the rebuttal:

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/08/0...ecent-warming/

  7. #7
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    I agree with you LD.
    The collateral from using less, polluting less etc. is all good. I think where most people get their back up is when people are being told that certain social engineering ideas, or municipal decisions, State, Federal which are clearly no more than a cash grab are touted as "a green solution".
    Recent proposals approved in my neck of the woods for example:

    Smart meters. We live in a Province which is powered by Hydro, and lately, smaller run of river projects. in fact, we often have so much excess of power, we sell it to California.
    Yet the Government in their infinite wisdom decided to spend 1 billion dollars on Smart Meters. Wireless Smart Meters. The most expensive type.
    The reason? The government claims it's so people can go online and reconsider how much energy they are spending.
    The unofficial story from the company tasked to install these meters is to bring in Time Of Use Billing.
    So what that means is during peak hours, they will raise your rate, like when you make dinner, are watching the news, are online, etc......

    When the Government was posed with this question, their stumbling rebuttle was and I quote:
    "Uhhhhhhh well....uhhh,,,We don't plan on time of use billing being implemented yet, but if it were ever to come to that, you'd simply have to adjust your schedule, to save money, and you'll be doing the planet a favour too."
    So how precisely does me doing my laundy at 11:00pm versus 6:00pm help the planet? I guess eating dinner at 12:00am will also help. Hmmmmm...

    Smart Water Meters:
    Essentially the same as above.....We live in a fucking rainforest!!!!!!!!

    How about CFL bulbs? Sorry...Those things suck! I've had two damn near catch fire because the ballasts in their base got so hot it fried the socket in the ceiling lights. Nice!
    And just how are these things green? Ok...they use less power...in use.
    Let's not forget that these are pretty much all made in China, travelling thousands of miles via ship, (as opposed to in the USA or Canada by truck or train for far shorter distances).
    They use Mercury, and are not easily recycled, in fact, they are one of the most expensive to recycle. it costs more per bulb to recycle these than it did to manufacture a standard incandescent from reports.
    Let's face it with these things......Manufacturers are charging a lot of money for these things, and they are being made for next to nothing overseas.
    It's a cash cow. You could buy 4 budget incandescents for around $2.00.....A single incandescent is around $4.00. So do the math.....The only folks some of this "greening" is helping are the people behind the legislation.

    I know there are those who truly care....Hell, I try to be responsible too.
    It's just sad that a worthy cause can be manipulated for personal financial gain.
    Nothing new though....Just another day on the third rock from the Sun.

  8. #8
    Atomic Punk Wruff_ajax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Dreamer View Post
    It all comes from a misnomer. It should be called "climate crisis" instead of "global warming."

    LOL, a "misnomer". That's great.

    When an entire liberal global agenda is proven to be a complete farce then it's just a "misnomer". HAHA!

    When they're caught fixing the data and caught in their own lies then suddenly it was all just a "misnomer". LOL

    Fuck Al Gore. Fuck the global Cap and Trade scam. Fuck 'em all. Stupid liberals. Lying pieces of PC crap.

    Quote Originally Posted by LD
    What I don't understand is suppose for a minute that it's all a hoax (I don't believe it is).

    But we still get off fossil fuel, have less cars on the road, with better mileage, etc.

    Wouldn't less pollution be a GOOD THING anyways??? I live in LA and if my son breathes less polluted air, all the better. There are too many cars burning up too much fuel, putting too much money in the pocket of the Saudis. That's really a fact, and facts are not "liberal" nor "conservative," they're just facts.
    Evidence that liberals are perfectly alright with perpetuating lies upon the masses in order to push their own bullshit agenda.

    The ends does not justify the means, Dreamer.

    You want less pollution? Then campaign about how (like you said) it's bad for our children to breath the shit, etc...,,, not that we're all going to fry and melt into the ocean in the next 20 years just to scare everyone into adopting all this green agenda and carbon market bullshit. You want to make Al Gore and the globalists richer then YOU write him a check, but don't push your lies on us.
    People want TRUTH and you guys don't give a shit about it. Whatever it takes, huh. Pathetic. People see that shit for what it is now, so give it up. Hell, you just admitted as much.
    _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wruff_ajax View Post
    LOL, a "misnomer". That's great.

    When an entire liberal global agenda is proven to be a complete farce then it's just a "misnomer". HAHA!

    When they're caught fixing the data and caught in their own lies then suddenly it was all just a "misnomer". LOL

    Fuck Al Gore. Fuck the global Cap and Trade scam. Fuck 'em all. Stupid liberals. Lying pieces of PC crap.



    Evidence that liberals are perfectly alright with perpetuating lies upon the masses in order to push their own bullshit agenda.

    The ends does not justify the means, Dreamer.

    You want less pollution? Then campaign about how (like you said) it's bad for our children to breath the shit, etc...,,, not that we're all going to fry and melt into the ocean in the next 20 years just to scare everyone into adopting all this green agenda and carbon market bullshit. You want to make Al Gore and the globalists richer then YOU write him a check, but don't push your lies on us.
    People want TRUTH and you guys don't give a shit about it. Whatever it takes, huh. Pathetic. People see that shit for what it is now, so give it up. Hell, you just admitted as much.
    That's just what a local radio host keeps on saying. "Even if we we're wrong about GW.....wouldn't it all be worth it to stop driving, and being more responsible with how we use energy?"
    It drives me fucking nuts because it's a loaded bullshit question. Yeah....lets blow billions forcibly of taxpayer dollars for the cause, but really just give it to "more deserving nations". in hopes that we can stop GW. It's a greenified redistribution of wealth scheme. Period.
    Would it be nice to not emit any carbon, and abandon the use of fossil fuels? Of course, but it's just not feasible. So for heating our homes, what can we do? Maybe rely on solar years down the road when conduction technology is as affordable as gas or oil is today, but the only other option is some form of burning.
    And as far as transportation....If we went electric tomorrow, you think we would have no reliancs on oil? It's used for steel, rubber, lubrication...Hell, the very computer I'm typing on.
    That's why I also shudder at the thought of the Hydrogen fuel cell taking off. As bad as they say CO2 is.....it's nothing compared to simple water vapor for heat entrapment.
    So it's all posies and dasies to think that our world should do the "responsible thing" and abandon fossil fuels, and really the main target of socialist agenda, capitalist lifestyle, but in reality, with over 6 billion people on the planet, many of which actually live off the land burning wood or dung for heat and food, (Burning emits CO2 there too), it's not going to change in our lifetime, or probably even beginning to change substantially by the end of our children's lives.
    I don't think we need to be guilted into anything.
    It's counter productive, and look at the pissing match we have today over it.
    My view....If it was the issue it apparently should be, then both sides would actually stop flinging the left right bullshit, and get it done.
    BTW....Anyone catch Gore the other day going on how he has projections by reputable climate scientists that sea leveld could actually rise 19 meters!!!!!!
    Wow Al....so 3 meters didn't get the buzz you wanted so 19 should do the trick. Putz
    Last edited by we die young; 08.24.11 at 06:25 PM.

  10. #10
    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    My first contribution to this thread will be a letter to the editor I wrote for my local news paper. This is from July 14, 2011 after people were arguing back and forth about climate change. People are still arguing about it in the local paper.

    Anyway,

    According to Mike Ranger (Letters, July 7), “smart” people want to maintain our planet’s sustainability and avoid the extinction of humans, while “dumb” people do not. He complains about the misuse of the words “consensus” and “fact,” and seems to think that only clean energy can save humankind. This, of course, is nonsense.

    To be clear, “facts” are objective and observable. A scientific theory, however, is the strongest argument at any given time to explain those facts. That an apple falls when you let go is a fact. Newton’s gravitational theory attempted to explain why it falls. Theories can evolve through time, as Newton’s theory was superseded by Einstein’s theory of general relativity. What this means is that those waiting for global warming to be proven as fact are waiting for an unachieveable standard. That the planet has warmed recently is a fact. If you want proof, then there it is. A theory, though, would explain why it has warmed. What we have now is a scientific "consensus", but that is not a theory. A consensus is the collective judgment, position, and/or opinion among a group of scientists. This is an important distinction.

    To say that the science is settled is misleading. We don’t want to react slowly, as Mr. Ranger warns, but we also don’t want to be reactionary. The FDA reacted too slowly to the data on smoking, but the forced sterilization of the mentally ill in the U.S. was reactionary. We must decide where to focus our resources in order to get the most out of them. Mr. Ranger warns about the extinction of our species from warming, but is warming even our biggest threat?

    The most drastic calculations show that a couple hundred thousand people could die annually from warming. By contrast, 3.2 million people die each year because they can’t afford to eat, 1.6 million from poor water quality, and 1.4 million from indoor air pollution (often from burning dung because they can’t afford electricity). They’re dying because they’re poor.

    Hastily decreasing fossil fuel consumption will increase energy prices and perpetuate poverty. According to the Harvard School of Risk Analysis, the single biggest risk to one’s life is being poor, almost twice that of smoking. As someone less “dumb” than me has put it, wealthy is healthy. Policies that increase wealth will do much more to help humans avoid extinction than will the drastic attempts to curb the warming of the planet.


    http://www.vvdailypress.com/articles...itor-mike.html

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post
    My first contribution to this thread will be a letter to the editor I wrote for my local news paper. This is from July 14, 2011 after people were arguing back and forth about climate change. People are still arguing about it in the local paper.

    Anyway,

    According to Mike Ranger (Letters, July 7), “smart” people want to maintain our planet’s sustainability and avoid the extinction of humans, while “dumb” people do not. He complains about the misuse of the words “consensus” and “fact,” and seems to think that only clean energy can save humankind. This, of course, is nonsense.

    To be clear, “facts” are objective and observable. A scientific theory, however, is the strongest argument at any given time to explain those facts. That an apple falls when you let go is a fact. Newton’s gravitational theory attempted to explain why it falls. Theories can evolve through time, as Newton’s theory was superseded by Einstein’s theory of general relativity. What this means is that those waiting for global warming to be proven as fact are waiting for an unachieveable standard. That the planet has warmed recently is a fact. If you want proof, then there it is. A theory, though, would explain why it has warmed. What we have now is a scientific "consensus", but that is not a theory. A consensus is the collective judgment, position, and/or opinion among a group of scientists. This is an important distinction.

    To say that the science is settled is misleading. We don’t want to react slowly, as Mr. Ranger warns, but we also don’t want to be reactionary. The FDA reacted too slowly to the data on smoking, but the forced sterilization of the mentally ill in the U.S. was reactionary. We must decide where to focus our resources in order to get the most out of them. Mr. Ranger warns about the extinction of our species from warming, but is warming even our biggest threat?

    The most drastic calculations show that a couple hundred thousand people could die annually from warming. By contrast, 3.2 million people die each year because they can’t afford to eat, 1.6 million from poor water quality, and 1.4 million from indoor air pollution (often from burning dung because they can’t afford electricity). They’re dying because they’re poor.

    Hastily decreasing fossil fuel consumption will increase energy prices and perpetuate poverty. According to the Harvard School of Risk Analysis, the single biggest risk to one’s life is being poor, almost twice that of smoking. As someone less “dumb” than me has put it, wealthy is healthy. Policies that increase wealth will do much more to help humans avoid extinction than will the drastic attempts to curb the warming of the planet.


    http://www.vvdailypress.com/articles...itor-mike.html
    Well done! That's the perfect read on the situation. Like how they think that electric is the sole way to go....You thing the corps. currently in charge of oil wouldn't leech every last cent out of electricity once it became the lead commodity? Society would be far worse off without options.

  12. #12
    Atomic Punk Little Dreamer's Avatar
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    I do agree there's nothing wrong in discussing the topic. However I don't think it's necessary to bring in politics, Al Gore, etc.

    I travel a lot and America is the only country where building a train becomes a political discussion. In other countries, a train is not liberal or conservative, it's just a train.
    Little Dreamer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Dreamer View Post
    I do agree there's nothing wrong in discussing the topic. However I don't think it's necessary to bring in politics, Al Gore, etc.

    I travel a lot and America is the only country where building a train becomes a political discussion. In other countries, a train is not liberal or conservative, it's just a train.
    Al Gore is a big part of it though. He has another lecture coming up in September.

  14. #14
    Atomic Punk
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    More Evidence That The Ice Age Scare "Never Happened".


  15. #15
    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Dreamer View Post
    I do agree there's nothing wrong in discussing the topic. However I don't think it's necessary to bring in politics, Al Gore, etc.

    I travel a lot and America is the only country where building a train becomes a political discussion. In other countries, a train is not liberal or conservative, it's just a train.
    It's good and bad. It's good in the sense that discussion and arguments are good if held in a reasonable fashion.

    Unfortunately, these discussions have become more about partisanship than growth, health, and truth.

    Science is a bout skepticism and disproof, yet the left portrays climate change as truth in the same way that the right speaks about God. And while scientists are normally skeptical, they are oddly passive when it comes to this debate.

    As far as just lying down and peacefully letting the government build a train, I'm not sure that is the best course either. We don't need trains that look like the LA Metro, so I think it's good to speak for and against these things.

 

 

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