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  1. #1
    Eruption Ilovevh's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 04:05 AM
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    Default 51st state? Small step forward for long-shot 'South California' plan

    A Republican member of the Riverside County Board of Supervisors wants his county and 12 others to secede from California and form the 51st state. His colleagues gave him an unenthusiastic go ahead Tuesday to explore the idea.

    .....An effort to turn 13 southern California counties into the nation's 51st state took a small step forward Tuesday but remains an extremely long shot, say experts.

    Four members of the Riverside County Board of Supervisors agreed Tuesday to allow a fifth member to convene a statewide meeting on the subject in the fall. Each of the four supervisors stated their objections to the secession idea, but went ahead and approved the idea of at least talking about it when Supervisor Jeff Stone said he would “personally see to it” that private funding, not public money, would be used to hold the meeting.

    Since the days of the gold rush, more than 220 campaigns to split California into halves or thirds have been tossed around. Mr. Stone's vision involves persuading 13 counties to secede from the state, which he says raids local coffers to plug budget gaps.

    Stone's idea has some merit, some analysts say. It addresses the problematic balance of power between Sacramento and California localities, as well as the political reality that the 13 counties in Stone's secession drive are far more conservative than the rest of the state. But the vision remains legally and politically unrealistic, many add, and is perhaps not the best solution to the problems it seeks address.

    “Even if everyone in the 13 counties approved of partition, it would still require the approval of the California Legislature. Though theoretically possible, such approval is practically impossible,” says Jack Pitney, professor of government at Claremont McKenna College.

    Nothing like Stone's plan has happened since West Virginia broke off from Virginia during the Civil War – and then “only because a rump legislature approved after the regular legislature joined the Confederacy,” says Professor Pitney.

    Stone's South California would not include Los Angeles. In addition to Riverside County, the counties targeted for secession would be Fresno, Imperial, Inyo, Kern, Kings, Madera, Mariposa, Mono, Orange, San Bernardino, San Diego, and Tulare, which include about 13 million people total.

    Republicans account for the majority of registered voters in all but two of the 13 counties – San Bernardino and Imperial. For that reason, the idea has merit, says Robert Stern, president of the Center for Governmental Studies.

    He says the real division would not one between northern and southern California, but internal and coastal California. "This would divide the state in a way that makes political sense: liberals in coastal California and conservatives in east California," he adds. "It would allow the liberals to increase taxes to pay for those services they want, and the conservatives to reduce regulations and taxes in their state.”

    Others are not so convinced that the division would be a good thing.

    “Secession would be like a divorce, which typically leaves both spouses worse off economically. And like a divorce, it would be bad for the kids,” says Pitney. “The new state would now be responsible for services that California provides, such as regional centers for the disabled. And both sides would have to work out difficult issues, such as ‘custody’ of the University of California at Riverside and other state facilities.”

    The plan did not receive enthusiastic approval at the public board meeting, either. Several of about a dozen, three-minute comments from local residents agreed with Stone’s comments that California is extremely hard to govern and needs some kind of overhaul. But some called him names and said they hoped his idea would flop. Some of the supervisors agreed to Stone’s motion to hold a meeting only because he agreed not to use public monies or staff time to convene it, and because the discussions would include other reforms.

    Splitting the state is the wrong answer to the right issue, says James Mayer, executive director of California Forward, a nonpartisan, nonprofit organization working to bring government closer to the people.

    “Indeed, California is too big, too diverse and too complex to be micromanaged by a dysfunctional legislature in the capital,” he says via e-mail.

    But the answer, he adds, is to get the state to devolve more of its authority to localities, not to secede. His organization has spent the past two years holding gatherings all over the state to explore ways to give community-level government more authority and responsibility so they can tailor public programs to be responsive and effective in their communities.

    “The governor and the Legislature – mostly motivated out of a desire to resolve the state's structural fiscal crisis – has started the process of shifting responsibilities to counties," he adds. "This evolution will take time, and much more needs to happen if it is going to deliver better results.”

    In the meantime, Stone's secession bid could lead to useful conversation on the subject of what makes California so difficult to govern.

    “In this case, even if secession does not occur – which is highly likely will not – it is worth talking about the reasons the idea is being floated at all,” says Jessica Levinson, director of political reform for the Center for Governmental Studies. “Is California too big to govern? Should we change the way we govern ourselves? Should we have more legislators, who are hopefully, more responsive to their constituents' needs? Should we have at-large elections? Proportional representation? Should we get rid of term limits so people get to know their legislators better?”
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  2. #2
    Future's in the past....
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    11.03.17 @ 01:35 PM
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    Reminds me of the story a few years back when a number of counties in SoFla wanted to become a separate state because they felt they were not getting their far share of state funds...seems someone forgot to tell them about these little places like Disney and Universal over in Orlando. The idea slowly went away.
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  3. #3
    Eruption
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    I just wanna sink my teeth in that fine piece of real estate...


  4. #4
    Atomic Punk LLFHS's Avatar
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    07.30.17 @ 08:59 PM
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    "Otisburg?????"
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    Sinner's Swing! Darkstar's Avatar
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    12.04.14 @ 11:23 PM
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    Ok, let them secede.....then the big quake will come, everything from the San Andreaus Fault down will fall into the ocean and we'll be back to 50....won't even have to change any flags!!!

    Edit: Ummm.....Maybe Brett and LLFS should think about moving north? Please?
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  6. #6
    Sinner's Swing! Jesus H Christ's Avatar
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    12.14.17 @ 10:05 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by LLFHS View Post
    "Otisburg?????"
    Miss Tesshmacher, she's got her own place....
    "The less I needed, the better I felt." ~ Charles Bukowski.

  7. #7
    Damage your reputation seenbad's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 10:48 AM
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    There was some motion a couple decades ago to do the same thing with Southern Oregon and Norther Cal. It was to be named the State of Jefferson. My Dad actually started a phone company by the name Jefferson State Communications as a preemptive/prospective name. Didn't happen, but it did have quite a bit of interest, especially from citizens who feel completely unrepresented because of the more populated areas of So Cal and N. Oregon. Very Red to Very Blue. Still that way today.
    sheepa latta peepah dabba looka foh a moopy

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  8. #8
    Atomic Punk Little Dreamer's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 12:49 PM
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    These areas in California, if you leave out Orange County, are not doing so well. I don't think they'd last long without LA and SF. Guess they still can't get over the fact that CA is deep blue. Just go to Riverside county this month and check it out.
    Little Dreamer

  9. #9
    Atomic Punk bklynboy68's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 03:20 PM
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    Default BREAK UP: Will California splinter into 6 states? Voters, Congress could soon decide

    There’s nothing like a guy with a few million bucks to lend instant credibility to a previously penny-ante movement to split up the state of California.

    Venture capitalist Tim Draper of Silicon Valley has filed paperwork for a November ballot measure that would divide California into six states, calling the Golden State as presently constituted “too big and bloated.”



    “Six Californias is an opportunity, an opportunity for Californians to get a fresh start, an opportunity for Californians to build new platforms for growth and prosperity,” Mr. Draper said at a Dec. 23 live-streamed press conference. “An opportunity to be awesome.”

    Mr. Draper’s involvement was an unexpected Christmas present for Mark Baird and Liz Bowen, who live near the Oregon border and help lead a group that has been working to split off California’s northernmost counties into a 51st state called Jefferson.

    Mr. Draper’s proposed six states are called, from north to south: Jefferson, North California, Silicon Valley, Central California, West California, and South California. His money will be needed: Proponents need to collect 1 million signatures just to get the idea on the ballot this fall.

    “I think it’s wonderful and excellent that someone of means has taken in an interest in our lack of representation,” Mr. Baird said.

    The Jefferson state movement isn’t the only secession undertaking in California — similar discussions have cropped up in the Central Valley and Southern California — but Mr. Draper’s decision to join the grass roots is a potential game-changer.

    A third-generation Silicon Valley venture capitalist, Mr. Draper, 55, grew up in California and founded the firm Draper Fisher Jurvetson. He also is known as an education maverick: He launched the Draper University of Heroes in San Mateo, a private boarding school program designed to help students ages 18 to 26 become entrepreneurs.



    Mr. Draper said California has gone from being a national leader in education and infrastructure to a dysfunctional and unwieldy collective that has become “untenable and ungovernable.”

    “There have been many good people governing our state for many years and they work very hard for Californians, but the results are horrendous,” he said. “We are the state that charges the most for the worst service. We are simply too big and bloated. This is not the fault of anyone. This has just happened. The status quo is not going to work for us.”

    Ponying up

    Mr. Draper has shown that he is willing to put his money where his mouth is: He sank $20 million into Proposition 38, a 2000 initiative to create a state-funded private-school voucher system. That measure lost by 71 percent to 29 percent.

    Asked how much he plans to spend on the initiative, Mr. Draper said “as little as possible, but I will make sure it gets on the ballot so that Californians have a chance to make this a reality.”

    Jack Pitney, a political scientist at Claremont McKenna College, said California’s sheer size — the state ranks first in population with 38 million and third in area behind Alaska and Texas — lends credibility to the ungovernable argument.

    “There’s more than a germ of truth to that,” said Mr. Pitney. “Just look at the size of our state Senate districts — any one of them has more people than the entire population of South Dakota. So there are real questions about the relationship of the people to their government.”

    That’s the impetus behind the Jefferson state movement. Boards of supervisors in two California counties that abut Oregon — Modoc and Siskiyou — have approved measures in support of the Jefferson state declaration, and Tahoma County has agreed to place the question on the ballot. Alturas, the seat of Modoc County, is 306 miles by car — nearly five hours — from the state capital in Sacramento.

    Mr. Baird said the problem is that state officials are out of touch with the needs of people outside the urban centers. Laws and regulations aimed at protecting the environment may sound good in Los Angeles and San Francisco, but they have resulted in an economic death spiral for the resource-dependent northern rural counties, he said.

    “This movement is just about people whose lives don’t work because they don’t have representation,” said Mr. Baird. “They wonder why we’re called the ‘welfare counties.’ It’s because our economy is being strangled by government regulation.”

    Interest in creating states has been on the rise, mainly in rural counties unhappy with legislative directives from far-off urban capitals. Similar 51st-state movements were launched last year in rural Colorado and Maryland.

    Congressional hurdle

    If the six-state initiative passes in California, residents would have three years to discuss whether the proposed borders make sense for them. The initiative’s language gives the governor until Jan. 1, 2018, to send the request to Congress.

    Obtaining congressional approval wouldn’t be easy, given that each new state would receive two senators, and “increasing the chance of more Republican senators is not something [Senate Majority Leader] Harry Reid is going to like,” Mr. Pitney said.

    “Also, supporters of secession would have to deal with uncertainties, like how would you set up the new governments, and who would pay for it,” said Mr. Pitney. “Economic arguments tend to be the death of secession movements. You lose the economies of scale.”

    Despite the enthusiasm of some in California’s less-populous precincts, the idea has not taken hold more generally in the state. A Field Poll released Dec. 11 found that just a quarter of state residents supported the idea of a breakup, compared with 59 percent who wanted to keep the state intact.

    Pollsters Mark DiCamillo and Mervin Field wrote that opposition “is bipartisan, with majorities of Democrats, Republicans and non-partisans opposed. While there is slightly greater support for the proposals among voters in inland counties and parts of Northern California outside the San Francisco Bay Area and Central Valley, even in these areas more disapprove than approve of the idea.”

    Even so, Mr. Draper said, the costs of dividing the state are nothing compared with the economic hardship in California’s future in the absence of drastic action. The state is wrestling with a $400 billion debt, although the fiscal outlook has improved under Gov. Jerry Brown, a Democrat.

    “I know change is hard for people,” said Mr. Draper. “But the California slide is accelerating, and it will only get worse. We’ll have economic bursts that make us feel like things are fine again, but each downturn will be worse than the last if we don’t change our system.”



    Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...#ixzz2pp4Xdbo6
    Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter
     "He has a swaggering retro machismo that will give hives to the Steinem cabal" -Camille Paglia on Donald Trump

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  10. #10
    Baluchitherium
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    11.25.17 @ 04:30 AM
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    There will never be a Jefferson because that involves taking a part of Oregon, too.

    We are the Jefferson Army!

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  11. #11
    Baluchitherium
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    12.14.17 @ 10:41 PM
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    I'll stay in Orange County, in republican hands, and watch the rest of this state go to shit under liberal governing and die...just like Detroit. Liberal societies are unsustainable and it is what is making this state an over-taxed and bloated piece of floating shit. Die Boxer, die Feinstein, and especially die Brown.
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  12. #12
    Atomic Punk bklynboy68's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 03:20 PM
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    Splitting California into six states would be complicated and time-consuming but not impossible, according to a state analysis.

    Tim Draper, the multimillionaire Silicon Valley venture capitalist behind the proposal, said he was encouraged by the California legislative analyst’s report, declaring that dividing the nation’s largest state is “clearly legal and doable.”

    “It is obvious that we need a breath of fresh air in California government, and creating six new states allows the refresh we need,” Mr. Draper said in an email after the study was made public over the weekend. “California, as it is, is ungovernable. We need our state governments to be local to us.”

    The legislative analyst’s report on the proposed Six Californias amendment shows two of the states becoming richer and four becoming poorer. The smallest and poorest would be the northernmost state of Jefferson.

    That doesn’t bother Mark Baird, a spokesman for the Jefferson Declaration Committee, who said the short-term economic hit would be far preferable to the state’s slide into a morass of ever-greater debt, taxes and regulation.
    We aren’t worried about the economy at all,” said Mr. Baird. “The way we figure it, we would create a state with a favorable regulatory and tax climate. We wouldn’t be driving business out with a stick; we would set up a business climate where they could prosper.”

    The report notes that congressional approval would be required even if California voters support the amendment. Organizers are working to gather the 1 million signatures needed to place the measure on the November ballot.

    The proposed amendment calls for an appointed board of commissioners to resolve the myriad issues involved, including the division of assets and liabilities and the establishment of final boundaries. If all goes as planned, the governor would submit the proposal to Congress on Jan. 1, 2018.

    Other hot-button issues include the division of water rights, the public university systems, social services and the prisons. The report says multistate entities could resolve some of those questions.

    The analysis also warns that any squabbles related to the division are likely to wind up in court and “persist for a long time.”
    Legal disputes between Virginia and West Virginia, for example, concerning the latter’s share of state debt lasted for about 50 years after West Virginia statehood,” said the 16-page report by legislative analyst Mac Taylor and finance director Michael Cohen.

    Two of the proposed six states — Silicon Valley and North California — would wind up with higher per capita income than California’s current per capita personal income of $46,477, given that the state’s wealth is concentrated in the San Francisco Bay Area, the report said.
    Silicon Valley would become the nation’s richest state with a per capita personal income of $63,288, surpassing Connecticut by $3,600, although it still would lag behind the District of Columbia. That means four states — West California, South California, Central California and Jefferson — would wind up with lower per capita personal incomes.

    Revenue from sales and property taxes also would be distributed unevenly among the six states. Jefferson and Central California have the lowest personal income taxes and the lowest sales and property tax bases, although Jefferson would become a net exporter of water.

    Mr. Draper said support for the six-state concept is highest in Central California and Jefferson because “the existing state is not working for them.”
    “Of course, we expect all six states to get richer because governments will be more in touch with their citizens,” Mr. Draper said.

    California is so large — its population of 38 million exceeds that of No. 2 Texas by nearly 12 million — that none of the six states as proposed would rank lower than 44th in terms of population, according to the report’s estimates.
    West California, which includes Los Angeles, would be the most populous of the states, roughly the size of Ohio. Jefferson would be the smallest with a head count slightly less than that of Montana but more than those of Delaware, South Dakota, Alaska, North Dakota, Vermont and Wyoming.
    For Mr. Baird, that’s the beauty of the six Californias proposal: bringing government closer to the people it represents.

    “When you ask people here about this, they tell you, ‘If I could live in a free state, I’d live with a few more potholes and some used equipment,’” said Mr. Baird. “We need representation. We’ll figure the rest of it out.”



    Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...#ixzz2sUoRqPnC
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     "He has a swaggering retro machismo that will give hives to the Steinem cabal" -Camille Paglia on Donald Trump

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    "But being number one doesn’t really mean jack fuck all. We sold twice as many records as other records that year (1984) that landed in the Number One position." ~Eddie Van Halen

  13. #13
    Atomic Punk Little Dreamer's Avatar
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    6 Californias? Why? Governor Brown is doing a damn fine job running the state right now.

    Dick Punch, we're doing fine in LA county without you, you can stay in the OC. Enjoy your pristine mini-malls and clean parking lots.
    Little Dreamer

  14. #14
    Atomic Punk bklynboy68's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Dreamer View Post
    Governor Brown is doing a damn fine job running the state right now.
     "He has a swaggering retro machismo that will give hives to the Steinem cabal" -Camille Paglia on Donald Trump

    "Make way for the bad guy"- Tony Montana

    'This hamburger don't need no helper"- David Lee Roth

    "I wish Bon Jovi would've given me a call before he recorded all of his hits, because the lyrics would've been smarter, the melodies would've been much more smashing, and they would've sold a lot fewer records." -David Lee Roth

    "My beef is people thinking Bon Jovi is good cuz they sold lots of records to housewives." -tango

    "But being number one doesn’t really mean jack fuck all. We sold twice as many records as other records that year (1984) that landed in the Number One position." ~Eddie Van Halen

  15. #15
    Baluchitherium
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Dreamer View Post
    6 Californias? Why? Governor Brown is doing a damn fine job running the state right now.

    Dick Punch, we're doing fine in LA county without you, you can stay in the OC. Enjoy your pristine mini-malls and clean parking lots.
    Hey, Kool Aid!!!!!
    Keep on drinkin that shit dude.
    "Alcoholism, is like, the only disease you can get yelled at for having" - Mitch
    Hedberg

 

 

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