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  1. #1
    Good Enough 5150rob's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 02:18 PM
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    Default problem with Franky neck

    Well,

    I dont know what to do with this one. Maybe you guys could help me out. I even brought it to my guitar tech and he could not even do anything else. I brought my Franky down to be set up and intonated and have some minor (so I thought) neck issues taken care of and I am about 90% done but here is the problem. The guitar neck is loosened as much as it will go with the truss rod and it still has a back bow issue to it because with the action where I need it and the floyd all set up I get some buzzing but not too bad I can live with that but on the high E and B string on the first and second fret it has the same pitch for each string on both frets (pitch of the 2nd fret) and once I get beyond those frets all is good. The 1st fret appears to be the same height as the others and nothing is noticably different but it just frets out on those 2 strings on the first and second frets and plays the same note. The other 4 strings are fine on all frets so what the hell is going on here and how do I fix it? My guitar tech says the neck is junk and needs to be replaced with one that has some adjustment range.

    any ideas how to fix this? As I said its only the high E and B strings on the 1st and 2nd frets that play the same thing and fret out. I was wondering if I should file the first fret down a bit just over the high E and B strings and then balance it off to compensate for the problem but my guitar tech said thats not the right thing to do.

    not sure if I should replace the neck or just give it some time to see if it bows back a little. I dont want or like a high action and the nut height is also shimmed and fine too. As I said my guitar tech guy is amazing and has fixed all my EVH guitars for 16 years and this one stumped him too. He could not even figure it out but before I trash the neck and get another one I wanted to check with you guys first.

    thanks for listening guys. I appreciate it,

    Rob

  2. #2
    Eruption
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    12.15.17 @ 06:42 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5150rob View Post
    Well,

    I dont know what to do with this one. Maybe you guys could help me out. I even brought it to my guitar tech and he could not even do anything else. I brought my Franky down to be set up and intonated and have some minor (so I thought) neck issues taken care of and I am about 90% done but here is the problem. The guitar neck is loosened as much as it will go with the truss rod and it still has a back bow issue to it because with the action where I need it and the floyd all set up I get some buzzing but not too bad I can live with that but on the high E and B string on the first and second fret it has the same pitch for each string on both frets (pitch of the 2nd fret) and once I get beyond those frets all is good. The 1st fret appears to be the same height as the others and nothing is noticably different but it just frets out on those 2 strings on the first and second frets and plays the same note. The other 4 strings are fine on all frets so what the hell is going on here and how do I fix it? My guitar tech says the neck is junk and needs to be replaced with one that has some adjustment range.

    any ideas how to fix this? As I said its only the high E and B strings on the 1st and 2nd frets that play the same thing and fret out. I was wondering if I should file the first fret down a bit just over the high E and B strings and then balance it off to compensate for the problem but my guitar tech said thats not the right thing to do.

    not sure if I should replace the neck or just give it some time to see if it bows back a little. I dont want or like a high action and the nut height is also shimmed and fine too. As I said my guitar tech guy is amazing and has fixed all my EVH guitars for 16 years and this one stumped him too. He could not even figure it out but before I trash the neck and get another one I wanted to check with you guys first.

    thanks for listening guys. I appreciate it,

    Rob
    I assume that you have the guitar tuned down a half step... what happens if you tune to standard? Also, maybe you can try heavier guage strings to create more tension or use try a hybrid light-heavy set.

  3. #3
    Good Enough 5150rob's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 02:18 PM
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    yeah I always do tune down 1/2 step but this time my guitar guy told me to tune standard to give the neck a little more pull. Did not work though and its been 2 days. I am using 9's for strings (the EVH 9-42) though. Should I try some 10s or 11s? I dont like the heavy strings but I guess I could try them to see if it helps pull it out a little more,

    Rob

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    Eruption
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5150rob View Post
    yeah I always do tune down 1/2 step but this time my guitar guy told me to tune standard to give the neck a little more pull. Did not work though and its been 2 days. I am using 9's for strings (the EVH 9-42) though. Should I try some 10s or 11s? I dont like the heavy strings but I guess I could try them to see if it helps pull it out a little more,

    Rob
    The heavier strings would definitely create more pull. You could also try the EVH 9-46's. After all... it's what Ed uses - HA!! It sounds like your describing more of a twist in addition to the back bow.

  5. #5
    Good Enough 5150rob's Avatar
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    yeah I will order up some EVH 46s tomorrow. I need more strings anyways.

    as far as it being a twist I guess you could be right. Just not sure what to do if the heavier strings dont work. I guess I will get another neck. Too bad because I love the feel of this neck.

    thanks again for the help,

    Rob

  6. #6
    Eruption
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    12.15.17 @ 06:42 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5150rob View Post
    yeah I will order up some EVH 46s tomorrow. I need more strings anyways.

    as far as it being a twist I guess you could be right. Just not sure what to do if the heavier strings dont work. I guess I will get another neck. Too bad because I love the feel of this neck.

    thanks again for the help,

    Rob
    Recently I had a buzzing problem that was similar to yours. I added the least amount of relief and voila. In your case the heavier strings may give you enough relief or even tuning past standard and leaving it sit for a few days may help the back bow even out. There are some other remedies using steam that I've never tried but have read about - hopefully the heavier strings work for you!

  7. #7
    Romeo Delight
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    05.20.17 @ 06:30 PM
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    Who made the neck? Sounds like it is worth the costs to ship it back to the maker...

  8. #8
    Good Enough 5150rob's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 02:18 PM
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    not really sure who made the neck believe it or not. I bought the guitar complete from a friend and noticed the issues it was having.

    I may try the heavy strings and then overtune it so to speak and see where she is in a week or so.

    Rob

    ps. thanks again for the help guys. I do appreciate it

  9. #9
    Romeo Delight throb's Avatar
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    07.20.17 @ 08:35 AM
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    if the truss rod nut is as loose as it can be then the rod may be stuck in one position, so to speak. an expert luthier would most likely strap the neck onto a neck jig and try to simulate the proper curve that it should have. with some fiddling they could probably get the rod to bend to the simulated curve.
    another option might be to try and remove the old rod and replace it with a new one. again, a job for a true expert.
    yet another option is that the neck could be heated in an oven to soften it up a bit and then gently bent into a proper curve and held there until it cooled down, hopefully holding that shape. (read the caption below the picture which is from Complete Guitar Repair by Hideo Kamimoto)



    lastly, you can put the guitar in a hardshell case and leave it in a cool (temperature controlled), dry and dark place for a long while. just leave it there. don't open the case at all for about 4 to 5 months. then take it out and see how it plays. the wood could actually return to it's original shape.

  10. #10
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    10.26.16 @ 03:37 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by throb View Post
    if the truss rod nut is as loose as it can be then the rod may be stuck in one position, so to speak. an expert luthier would most likely strap the neck onto a neck jig and try to simulate the proper curve that it should have. with some fiddling they could probably get the rod to bend to the simulated curve.
    another option might be to try and remove the old rod and replace it with a new one. again, a job for a true expert.
    yet another option is that the neck could be heated in an oven to soften it up a bit and then gently bent into a proper curve and held there until it cooled down, hopefully holding that shape. (read the caption below the picture which is from Complete Guitar Repair by Hideo Kamimoto)



    lastly, you can put the guitar in a hardshell case and leave it in a cool (temperature controlled), dry and dark place for a long while. just leave it there. don't open the case at all for about 4 to 5 months. then take it out and see how it plays. the wood could actually return to it's original shape.
    Ya -- you might wanna put 12's on it and tune it to F, then leave it for a month....

  11. #11
    Good Enough 5150rob's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 02:18 PM
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    definately some good options there. Thanks guys,

    Rob

  12. #12
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    11.25.17 @ 09:06 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by throb View Post
    if the truss rod nut is as loose as it can be then the rod may be stuck in one position, so to speak. an expert luthier would most likely strap the neck onto a neck jig and try to simulate the proper curve that it should have. with some fiddling they could probably get the rod to bend to the simulated curve.
    another option might be to try and remove the old rod and replace it with a new one. again, a job for a true expert.
    yet another option is that the neck could be heated in an oven to soften it up a bit and then gently bent into a proper curve and held there until it cooled down, hopefully holding that shape. (read the caption below the picture which is from Complete Guitar Repair by Hideo Kamimoto)



    lastly, you can put the guitar in a hardshell case and leave it in a cool (temperature controlled), dry and dark place for a long while. just leave it there. don't open the case at all for about 4 to 5 months. then take it out and see how it plays. the wood could actually return to it's original shape.
    Here's a suggestion, but it is only that. DON'T DO THIS UNLESS YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY COMFORTABLE, AND CAN EASILY RECOGNIZE SIGNS OF REJECTION TO THIS TECHNIQUE!!!!
    A technique along the lines of the illustration above is to clamp the guitar neck in this fashion but applying a slight bit of tension on the rod as well. but you won't feel any until you get some forced relief into the neck. You apply just enough clamp pressure to the neck to force the neck into a pronounced bow. If you were to run a straightedge down the neck, you should see 3mm.'s around the 9th. or 10th. fret (whichever is closer to the center of your neck depending how many frets it has) and the precision edge. Leave the neck in this state for approx 24 to 48 hours. Check in from time to time though to make sure there is not more bow appearing than you have set. At this time, you can apply a little heat, but often just clamping in a decent temperature (meaning anywhere from 75f. to 80f.) will be enough to get the neck functional again. After 24 hrs., remove the neck from the jig, and check the progress by sighting down both sides of the neck. If there is no progress at this ponit, then re jig it and apply another 1/4 turn one you reclamp to 3mm. and leave it another 24. If there some progress, but still has a way to go then reclamp exactly as it was, and leave the neck there for 3 days. This will ensure that the fibers causing the back bow are stretched to their limit, and the neck should be fine from there.
    The idea here is that often a back bow is the result of the neck being crafted with slightly "green" or not sufficiently seasoned wood. So what happens is when it naturally dries out, the grain fibers shrink, and pull or twist the neck.
    By applying pressure to the hopefully now fully seasoned neck, the fibers will be stretched, and the trussrod which may also be binding due to a snug fit will now be able to do it's job.
    I was very skeptical of this technique, but I've done it a few times and damn....it works.
    Now if the neck is particularily stubborn, you may have to introduce some steam into the mix, but often this can be a short lived remedy, because that moisture introduced will again eventually leave the wood, and you could be back to square one.
    This technique is often used on Parker guitars because they use a lot of different types of wood on their stuff. Can be a real adventure in patience.
    Last edited by we die young; 05.16.11 at 08:50 AM.

  13. #13
    Good Enough 5150rob's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 02:18 PM
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    thanks wedieyoung. I will try that. I was thinking about this one too....

    suspend the guitar between 2 chairs (body on one and headstock on the other) and take a 25 lb weight and lay it on the neck around the 9th 12th fret and let it sit there for a few days and then check it.

    whadaya think? Would this sort of do the same thing?

    Rob

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5150rob View Post
    thanks wedieyoung. I will try that. I was thinking about this one too....

    suspend the guitar between 2 chairs (body on one and headstock on the other) and take a 25 lb weight and lay it on the neck around the 9th 12th fret and let it sit there for a few days and then check it.

    whadaya think? Would this sort of do the same thing?

    Rob
    I would suggest removing the neck. it's far easier to get everything dead level and centered this way on your BENCH, or table, and to take your measurements. No chairs or weights. You've got to use carpenters clamp. A weight is a little too iffy, because if the truss rod thread is bound somewhere (actually not the rod itself, but the nut or channel shelf it rides against to apply/releive pressure) and is stuck and decides to let go( like oh say overnight when you're not lookin', then your neck is at risk of a warp, or you could pop frets....all real fun stuff. Aslo far easier to sight up and down in both directions. Trying to do this in any other environment than flat secure surfaces with clamps you can easily adjust the tension of will fail, most likely resulting in a warp which is far more difficult to get rid of.
    Just for the love of all that's holy.....Do this procedure with great care. if you hear any creaks, groans, or see frets do anything odd, stop. You don't want to gooch your neck beyond repair by other methods.
    Not reprimanding you here. I've seen and done quite a few things out of desperation, and just offering a little insight to what can go wrong in a big way.
    Last edited by we die young; 05.16.11 at 09:16 AM.

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    Good Enough 5150rob's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 02:18 PM
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    thanks wedieyoung.

    I will absolutely take your advise. I will try and tackle it this weekend when I am off and have the time to monitor it.

    thanks agaian as I really appreciate it,

    Rob

 

 

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