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  1. #421
    Atomic Punk Get The Show On The Road's Avatar
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    01.28.20 @ 03:13 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad to the Bone View Post
    this thread has really gone off the rails.

    Sam was obligated to do 1 record for Geffen when he joined vh. He did it WITH Ed. He didn't tour to promote it. he did rockline and letterman and that was pretty much it (he may have done a press tour for a couple of weeks I don't remember). he then went right back in and did OU812, they recorded a show in Japan that was supposed to be released but wasn't. He did nothing solo material wise between 812and FUCK.

    He did 2 songs in 94 and how long did they take to record? 2-3 weeks? maybe?

    VH was in a place where they didn't HAVE to do a record every year so they didn't.

    Sam didn't hold anyone "hostage" that's laughable. Ed did plenty of things on his own, outside of the band that held them up as much as anything Sam ever did. He produced 2 Private Life disks, he helped promote them. he developed his own guitars, his own amps, he banged Ernie Balls wife....etc
    I'm pretty sure it was Sterling Ball's wife - Ernie's was probably getting up there in years at that point...
    The only genre I really know is Van Halen.

  2. #422
    Atomic Punk Bad to the Bone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Get The Show On The Road View Post
    I'm pretty sure it was Sterling Ball's wife - Ernie's was probably getting up there in years at that point...
    lol....that was meant as a tongue in cheek thing, whoever owned musicman at the time's wife I guess.

    I don't play guitar so I don't keep up with that stuff.

  3. #423
    Atomic Punk Get The Show On The Road's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad to the Bone View Post
    lol....that was meant as a tongue in cheek thing, whoever owned musicman at the time's wife I guess.

    I don't play guitar so I don't keep up with that stuff.
    Heh, Sterling is Ernie's son. I'm pretty sure MusicMan was passed down to him and he was running it at the time.

    That said, maybe Ed was into older women...
    The only genre I really know is Van Halen.

  4. #424
    Atomic Punk Bad to the Bone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Get The Show On The Road View Post
    Heh, Sterling is Ernie's son. I'm pretty sure MusicMan was passed down to him and he was running it at the time.

    That said, maybe Ed was into older women...
    either way he boned one of them....at least one of them...maybe both? who knows.

  5. #425
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Dreamer View Post
    Toxic, you might have done a lot of research. But you still need to do a lot more.
    Sam's solo projects were far from setting the world on fire. When Dave did his solo EP, the videos were popular on MTV, so people noticed. On the other hand, nobody really cared about "High Hopes" except for two paranoid Dutch-born musicians. And I don't need to do some research, I was around at that time. Sam went on Letterman, pretty much what Eddie did when jamming "Stompin 8H."
    Sam making his solo stuff his priority is again totally laughable. Do you know how LONG recording those VH records took in those days? Starting with OU812, they became, long, drawn-out affairs, with world tours that took a year or a year and half. Sam's time was clearly occupied by VH, the split must've been like 90% VH 10% solo. In the end, EVH was going to find any excuse possible to make Sam the bad guy, like he would do countless times with Roth, Michael Anthony, Gary, etc.
    Regarding Europe, there was a clear lack of enthusiasm from Warner Brothers Europe, I remember talking to one of their reps in the early 90s, they were all about Madonna. And VH didn't wanna tour there. They made so much money in the US, they thought they didnt need to go to Europe and South America again. They were basically a 3-country band, USA, Canada and Japan. Only after RHRN did they come to Europe again.
    As for "Over The Top," Eddie was on bass on that one. Nice try.
    By the one, on this site, there are no haters, we're all huge fans. But it doesn't mean we're gonna approve every crazy things they do.
    I've spent a lot of time working out this reply, knowing I'd want to com up with something that would shut the door (at least for me) on this thread. I imagine I'll have a lot to say on lots of other VH topics, but this is the last thing I'll say on this particular topic.

    One has to keep in mind that that when they were doing these long tours and long recording blocks, Sammy's mind was always wandering. He'd leave because of Eddie's long time in getting to the studio, only that when Ed did arrive, Sammy would often be nowhere to be found. Do I fault him for this? No, because it can be hard to deal with. After all, Steven Tyler is notorious for procrastinating with his lyrics while the other 4 members of Aerosmith waste no time cooking up the riffs and backbone of the songs. But Sammy would take this personally and these days often attacks Eddie as a person, when it has nothing to do with the songs on the albums. Therefore, any opportunity to express himself, he'd take, even if it had potential to undermine VH. Yes, we know in hindsight that these projects wouldn't do anything serious, compared to Dave's solo work, but the possibility was there, and it could indeed have happened. The fact that I Never Said Goodbye did so well despite no tour shows how well Sammy's solo work was loved, even if it wasn't as mainstream successful as VH. Even if Ed had not played bass on the tracks (or Winner Takes All, for that matter), those songs still would've done just as well as they did. They didn't rely on Eddie's presence to make or break them.

    Did Eddie overreact? Yes, absolutely, but it came from a place deserved anger. Ed doing Stompin' 8H and Private Life never got anywhere near the exposure that Sammy's work did. In fact, the vast majority outside dedicated VH fans never knew it existed. This is not like Gene Simmons' extracurricular activities, where he was everywhere else but Kiss in the '80s, much to Paul Stanley's anger. Gene was boasting about these opportunities and promoting himself, while crapping out songs on Kiss's 80s albums that are completely forgotten. It's no coincidence Paul's songs were the hits in that period. Ed was simply jamming and producing, turning out for the occasional TV performance, but otherwise just keeping it private, and always looking for what VH would do next (when he wasn't passed out). Sammy was still doing radio interviews, music videos, and everything besides tour to promote these solo activities and encourage their visibility. While Eddie and Alex didn't articulate this the best way, they knew that Sammy only cared about himself first. Sammy gets along with people when they follow what he wants to do. He's not a team player, or receptive to listen to other opinions. Even Chickenfoot is essentially him as the leader, dictating what to do. Just because he's friendly and doesn't yell or shout orders doesn't make it not essentially a dictatorship, a benevolent one, but a dictatorship nonetheless.

    This became crucial after Ed Leffler died. Though Leffler was essentially rubber-stamping Sammy's decisions, he still got along with the others and was able to help them decide to see things Sammy's way. After his death, there was no way this lineup was ever going to hold, no matter who became manager. Leffler's death also came around roughly the same time as Eddie's first serious attempt at sobriety, and both combined to make him see how Sammy had taken control of something that was never his. So when he moved to take it back, Sammy grew pissed and threatened, much like how Mick Jagger and Keith Richards' public feud began because Keith, after kicking smack, tried to transition back into his share of control, and Mick felt threatened and considered a power play. It's one of the trademarks of Lead Singer Disease. While Ray Danniels, in hindsight, may not have been the best choice as replacement, Sammy is outright lying when he said that Danniels was manipulating Eddie and Alex and molding them like a puppet master. If he had never done that in his managing Rush or Extreme, why would he suddenly do this for VH? It simply is not plausible, especially considering how Danniels has always been recounted by those bands. This is especially so in the wake of Neil Peart's retreat from the world for 4 1/2 years, just riding the backroads of North America on his motorcycle. Would someone as allegedly controlling and manipulative as Sammy claims he is have allowed Neil to simply vanish and let Rush be put on hiatus? And for those who say that Sammy said David C. Huff twisted Sammy's words for Red Storm Rising to make it worse than it was, Huff did the interview and article Sammy gave Guitar World in the April '97 article. Clearly, Sammy thought it was great, as the book began to take shape afterwards. If Sammy truly thought there were problems with his quotes, he wouldn't have worked on the book with him at all. He probably only cancelled it because of his lawyers telling him there would be libel lawsuits from the Rush and/or Bon Jovi camps if the book went out as planned. (BTW, your correction about VH and Europe is duly noted, and I humbly apologize for my comments there.)

    Sammy also did nothing but castigate and blame Eddie for his addictions, calling it a moral failing and something that makes him an absolute piece of shit. He would say this while nursing a beer or tequila in front of Eddie's face, mind you. Addiction is different from person to person. Sometimes it's a disease, sometimes a choice. Some are all or nothing, some can manage moderation after breaking addiction. For Eddie, it is clearly a disease, and it must be all or nothing. But Sammy never gave support, never moved to help him along the way a friend or a colleague should. When Eddie relapsed during the Balance tour, Sammy used this to gloat, and then of course spread his vile lie that Eddie never tried to be sober. The fact that Sammy has always refused to see thing from Ed's point of view or consider the role he had in pushing the addictions to their course is nothing short of appalling. It also ensured that even in the 2004 tour, when Sammy was far more gracious, Eddie would fail and fall flat on his face. That tour's failure is clearly Eddie's fault, 100 percent. But it wouldn't have ever gotten to that point if Sammy had simply tried to encourage Eddie in his sobriety and reach an understanding.

    Sammy moved prevent and sabotage the Best Of Volume 1, even though Leffler had arranged for the deal with Warners which included that album. If Leffler had still been alive, Sammy would've come up with the idea of releasing the album himself. Other than his double disc idea, his complaints were pure hypocrisy. Even if some of the compilations of his solo material were unauthorized, the fact remains that Sammy let it go out and sell, and never sued. Sammy was determined to burn the house of VH to the ground, without considering what he was doing, just because he wasn't controlling things. When things got to that phone call, it was too late, and Sammy stormed out. The fact that he has never truly admitted that he quit is also absurd. The closest is the "I guess I did" in Red, but it's clear he's still holding the blame on Eddie and Alex. It's as very clear and blatant a "sorry, not sorry" as you can get.

    Of course, as I have said, Eddie and Alex have their share of the blame as well. It's clear that psychologically, they are still the lonely Dutch boys who came to America, unable to speak much English, having almost no friends, looking to the black kids for them, and relying on each other to get through life. It has colored all their actions as adults, especially their absolute lack of people skills. But one can easily keep this in mind and work with it, not expecting anything that they can't give. Dave has learned this, after the bitter failure of 1996, when he hadn't matured enough to do, but Sammy simply never has, and until his talk of making peace, never even seemed to want to attempt it. Before his latest one, he was still talking about how Ed and Al must apologize first.

    In the end, like I said, I don't hate Sammy. I love his music throughout his entire career, I think he's a really incredibly guy who I'd love to hang out with. I could have lots of things to talk about and be friendly with that don't involve VH or politics. Same with anyone. That's because I'm not a Dave fan, a Sammy fan, an Eddie fan, an Alex fan, or a Mike fan. I'm a VH fan.

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  7. #426
    Atomic Punk Van Squalen's Avatar
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    There's some minor to moderate attempts at critical thinking in there, but when all is said and done you're still making excuses for the Van Halen brothers, and trying to paint them more innocent than they actually are by scapegoating the second lead singer and certain managers with personal subjective presumptions of your own. It's a song and dance we've all heard before. You have a whole truckload of unfounded assertions regarding Sammy. Which is fine. But your analysis falls short because of your personal assumptions. You completely left out all the BS Eddie himself was spouting during those same times you're citing Sammy as a 'source.'

    Doesn't matter who was or wasn't present, or what kind of stuff happened in childhood. Most people are still accountable for the decisions they make regardless of rhyme, reason, or past affect....bona fide mental illness notwithstanding, of course.
    Last edited by Van Squalen; 07.10.16 at 06:34 PM.

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  9. #427
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    Two lead singers. One potential lead singer...and one 3rd lead singer.

    One guitar player.

    'Nuff said.

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  11. #428
    Baluchitherium
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    Sam is a great guy personally and like all members current and past made some less than perfect decisions. This book was one of them but not because many call it a revenge book, its not.
    He made a bad business decision, he did not go out to assassinate anyone's character. Yes he exaggerates A LOT about his own career, that makes him a professional entertainer not a bad guy. The version of the book published was the 7th version submitted. The first 6 were bounced back as not having enough dirt and to get the rest of the signing bonus for the book it had to be accepted. I think everything in it from that 2004 tour is pretty accurate from his point but he didn't run to publish dirt on the band but yeah eventually he gave in got his check.

    Don't think he would admit it but think if he had to do it again he would do it a bit different in how he presented it. He is not a bitter guy and not a vengeful dude so I think those criticism's are unfair. Him perhaps not understanding the depth of Ed's issues just means he is more normal so getting that bad was not on his radar. Addict's issues are exactly that, the addict's
    Last edited by Darrin Stephens; 07.11.16 at 07:59 AM.

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  13. #429
    Atomic Punk Little Dreamer's Avatar
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    01.28.20 @ 01:51 PM
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    The book is pretty much how I'd envision a Sammy book. He doesn't try to paint himself like a hero. You get Sam warts and all. The red rocker.

    As for the VH bros, well proof is in the pudding. They had problems with Dave, problems with Sam, problems with Gary, then problems with Sam again. So there is no LSD bs - the problem was with THEM.
    Little Dreamer

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