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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk Little Dreamer's Avatar
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    12.17.17 @ 11:18 PM
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    Default Should We Change Handgun Laws?

    From realclearpolitics.com

    Our Insane Handgun Policy
    By Richard Cohen


    I had a teacher in college who used to ask, Who discovered America? He would offer some choices. They were Amerigo Vespucci, Christopher Columbus or the Nina, the Pinta and the Santa Maria. The answer he wanted was the three ships with which eventually someone would have discovered the New World and without which everyone would have remained in Spain. It is no different with the tragedy in Tucson. Hate speech and madness were part of the mix, but it was the gun and our insane gun laws that resulted in six deaths. Until we come to grips with that, as a nation, we remain armed and dangerous.

    The American culture, the American gun culture, insists on a constitutional right to bear arms -- even concealed weapons such as a Glock 19 semiautomatic handgun capable of doing immense damage. A 22-year-old man, already hallucinating on the Internet, making no sense in his classes and booted from school for his strange ways and probably unable to show up with a friend, can buy such a killing device almost on the spot. If he is crazy, then so are we.

    No real questions are asked of him. Do you think the government controls grammar and grammar controls the universe? Have you been babbling in class and can you hold a job? Why do you want this gun? Do you, perhaps, want to kill someone? Do you want a Glock 19 because it was one of two handguns used in the Virginia Tech massacre (32 killed, one suicide), and would you please state the name of your intended victim on the form provided? Thanks. This will just take a moment to process.

    In the immediate wake of the Tucson shooting, America rounded up the usual TV posse and went in search of a reason. By mysterious consensus of the talk show zeitgeist, the supposedly rancorous political environment and Sarah Palin's use of cross hairs on her Facebook page were blamed for the shooting of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords. I am usually in favor of blaming Palin for almost anything, but this time she is not at fault. The use of cross hairs is no more menacing than the use of the word "targeted." Beside, we have no idea if the alleged shooter, the quite addled Jared L. Loughner, even saw that posting.

    Certainly, the political environment can have an effect. The demonization of a mere political opponent can sometimes give someone the license to become violent. The culture is the sea in which we all swim. Even crazy people can get the message. But we don't as yet have any idea of what message Loughner was getting. Was he out to get Giffords because she represented the oppression of government or because she is an attractive woman or because she is a Jew? The mind of a madman is a bog. It's easy to get lost.

    But rather than going on a national guilt trip, we should turn our attention to the one element in this tragedy that can be controlled: easy access to guns. After all, enough ought to be enough. Rifles can kill (John F. Kennedy, for instance), but most homicides committed using firearms -- more than 70 percent -- are the work of handguns (Robert F. Kennedy, for instance). The handgun is wonderfully effective. It's little and it's lethal.

    Gun statistics are nothing less than astonishing. According to the Brady Campaign, an advocacy group, "more Americans were killed with guns in the 18-year period between 1979 and 1997 (651,697) than were killed in battle in all wars since 1775 (650,858)." Even assuming that some of those deaths were suicides or accidents, the gun is what did it. Had it not been handy, then a death might have been avoided.

    Little in life is easy or open and shut. There is probably no getting rid of all guns, there is no denying their appeal, and there is no use ignoring the Second Amendment. But amendments can be repealed and then reworded (long guns only?) and somehow made to conform to the 21st century. I have in the past admitted a sometime yen to have a handgun for protection -- I have twice been burglarized, once while I was in the house -- but my own moderate paranoia cannot make me duck the obvious. Six people are dead and 14 wounded in Arizona not just because a man went crazy or just because political rhetoric has gotten too raw, but because they were shot. It's the gun that did it.
    Little Dreamer

  2. #2
    Atomic Punk TheresOnlyOneWay's Avatar
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    11.30.17 @ 11:15 AM
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    Or, if someone had a concealed weapon on them at the time, they could've put a bullet in his head after popped off the first couple of shots.
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  3. #3
    Atomic Punk Wruff_ajax's Avatar
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    12.17.17 @ 08:51 PM
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    Six people are dead and 14 wounded in Arizona not just because a man went crazy or just because political rhetoric has gotten too raw, but because they were shot. It's the gun that did it.
    Yes. The gun did it. Outlaw handguns. And political dissent while you're at it. I heard that one being discussed on liberal radio yesterday.





    Here's a couple of headlines from articles I found in my email this morning...

    How the Right's Rhetoric Fueled the Actions of Arizona's Mass Murderer:
    The Tea Party culture of political intimidation affirmed his violent impulses.



    and

    What the Right Gains From Poisoning Our Political Discourse and Inspiring Violence

    and

    The Right's Rising Tide of Violent Rhetoric Is Deadly



    Careful with that rhetoric folks. Most unproductive.

    Is Loughner radical right? A leftist loon? Word from those that know him is that he's actually way out left.
    But as much as the left or right wants to brand him this or that and point fingers at the other, after viewing his videos and learning more about him it appears that his ideas are extremely convoluted and that he suffers from severe mental disorders.

    One thing I think (or at least hope) we can all agree on is that he is a madman with a very sick and deranged mind.


    Lets stop blaming one another. That sort of reaction to this terrible tragedy is extremely dangerous in this climate. Unfortunately all too common.
    _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_

  4. #4
    Atomic Punk
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    07.24.11 @ 04:36 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheresOnlyOneWay View Post
    Or, if someone had a concealed weapon on them at the time, they could've put a bullet in his head after popped off the first couple of shots.
    you know, the NRA has a section in one of their newsletters every month that they devote to news stories about people with handguns who foil would-be robbers, muggers, rapists etc.

    They publish dozens and dozens every month....yet, there seems to be millions of stories of successful murderers, rapists, bank robbers etc etc etc.

    Though I have recently become a supporter of an individual's right to carry and own weapons, I don't think it does as much to prevent crime as gun-people would like everyone to believe.

    Evidence? Houston has pretty liberal gun-carrying laws and yet every day, every single fucking day, there are dozens of rapes, murders, bank robberies, home invasions, muggings etc etc etc.

    Thumb in the dam.
    Stay out of it, dude.


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  5. #5
    Atomic Punk Little Dreamer's Avatar
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    12.17.17 @ 11:18 PM
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    Yup, someone else carrying a gun would have stopped him.
    But also, someone else driving a tank. Why not let people drive tanks. Someone driving a tank could've run over that dude. End of problem.
    Or, someone carrying a bazooka. Or an RPG.

    It's always the same problem, let "law abiding citizens" carry weapon. But my next door neighbor, all abiding that he is, could get drunk one night and have a fight with his wife. I'd rather him not have any gun than take chance that a stray bullet would one day accidently hit my son playing in front of the house.

    And I've never seen an American traveling or living abroad saying "damn, I so miss the right to carry a gun around, can't wait to go home and pack a pistol!"
    Little Dreamer

  6. #6
    Damage your reputation seenbad's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 10:48 AM
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    Make it illegal so that law abiding citizens don't have them, and the criminals who disregard the law do....hmmm. ......Yeah, I'm sticking with FUCK NO.

    Thank you.
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  7. #7
    Baluchitherium
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    12.13.17 @ 02:13 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by seenbad View Post
    Make it illegal so that law abiding citizens don't have them, and the criminals who disregard the law do....hmmm. ......Yeah, I'm sticking with FUCK NO.

    Thank you.

  8. #8
    Forum Frontman fudd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Dreamer View Post
    Yup, someone else carrying a gun would have stopped him.
    But also, someone else driving a tank. Why not let people drive tanks. Someone driving a tank could've run over that dude. End of problem.
    Or, someone carrying a bazooka. Or an RPG.

    It's always the same problem, let "law abiding citizens" carry weapon. But my next door neighbor, all abiding that he is, could get drunk one night and have a fight with his wife. I'd rather him not have any gun than take chance that a stray bullet would one day accidently hit my son playing in front of the house.

    And I've never seen an American traveling or living abroad saying "damn, I so miss the right to carry a gun around, can't wait to go home and pack a pistol!"
    Come to Georgia or any southern state, Florida doesn't count, ever.

  9. #9
    PM Goo with your concerns OLO's Avatar
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    12.17.17 @ 10:54 AM
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    Just re-uped with the NRA a few days ago.
    ((Just My Two Cents))
    And thats about what its worth.

  10. #10
    Good Enough wham bam will rock's Avatar
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    06.26.17 @ 04:51 PM
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    Two words.....

    N-O
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  11. #11
    Hang 'Em High sickman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wham bam will rock View Post
    Two words.....

    N-O
    As a member of the NRA I would 100000000000000% agree.
    I used to jog but the ice cubes kept falling out of my glass.

  12. #12
    Good Enough cabomiro's Avatar
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    12.14.17 @ 01:13 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuddman5150 View Post
    Come to Georgia or any southern state, Florida doesn't count, ever.
    So Georgia is now considered living abroad. OK then.
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  13. #13
    Forum Frontman fudd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cabomiro View Post
    So Georgia is now considered living abroad. OK then.
    You know what I mean. Here in the south EVERYONE carries guns.

  14. #14
    Sinner's Swing!
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    I'm real torn on this from a taxpayer's perspective.
    The bottom line is you could have all the laws you want. There's literally millions of guns out there. Weather or not a type of gun is legal or not, or who is legally entitled to own a gun is irrelevant. If someone has the intention of going out and killing someone with a gun, It's not overly hard to get one through non legal means.
    Take a look at Canada's gun registry program.It was supposed to be this huge safety net and protect people. This didn't stop a psychotic ass from gunning down multiple RCMP officers on his property before shooting himself in Alberta.
    It also didn't stop an open gang shooting at a Toronto mall wounding numerous people, and most notably killing a Toronto teenage girl. Or in my neck of the woods, the rampant gang war on the streets of Vancouver over the past number of years. Virtually none of these types of weapons are legal for sale in Canada, and few are even sold in the U.S., but any gun can do the job, though more slowly than a fully automatic 9mm. Uzi style weapon.
    It's a tough issue. I used to hunt, and I still go to the rifle range from time to time, so I have no adversity to guns in the right hands.
    Would I ever pull out a gun in anger or intimidate or threaten? Absolutely not, but that's not to say some mental defective won't act in a fit of rage or revenge.
    You just never know. So what do you do?

  15. #15
    Eruption Naked Wake's Avatar
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    12.11.17 @ 12:57 PM
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    even if guns were not legal, it's still easy enough to get them. What I find even more scary than being able to walk into a store and legally buy a handgun is the ease of getting M-16's and AK-47's on the street.

 

 

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