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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk
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    Default Gov't urges 'no refusal' policy on drunken driving

    WASHINGTON — When 18 people died in alcohol-related crashes in his Louisiana parish two years ago, Sheriff Craig Webre looked for new ways to combat drunken driving. Using laws already on the books, the sheriff found a simple answer.

    Webre's department west of New Orleans started using a "no refusal" policy for suspected drunken drivers who declined breath tests. When someone pulled over for drunken driving refused to take a Breathalyzer, Webre's deputies sought prompt search warrants from judges to take blood samples and charge suspects if their blood-alcohol levels exceeded the legal limit of 0.08.

    The number of people killed in alcohol-linked crashes in Lafourche Parish fell to 11 deaths in 2009. Drunken driving arrests doubled. This year, only five people have died in such crashes in the parish.

    "The statistics and the lives that have been saved cannot be refuted," Webre said.

    The Transportation Department highlighted the no refusal policy on Monday as a way to crack down on drunken driving during the holiday season. Nearly 11,000 people were killed in alcohol-impaired crashes in the U.S. in 2009. Two-thirds of the deaths involved a driver with a blood-alcohol content higher than the legal limit of .08.

    About one in four drunken driving suspects refuse to take breath tests, the department said, and law enforcement officials described the approach as a loophole commonly used to avoid prosecution. The government said the no refusal initiative exists in 9 states — Arizona, Florida, Idaho, Illinois, Kansas, Louisiana, Missouri, Texas and Utah — and others should adopt it.

    "These aren't new laws or regulations," said Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood. "They're efforts to streamline existing procedures while protecting due process to ensure that drunk drivers can't skirt the consequences of their actions." LaHood said the department would help states implement the policy in their departments.

    New Hampshire has the highest refusal rate at 81 percent. About two in five refuse tests in Massachusetts, Florida, Louisiana and Ohio.

    States using the approach report more guilty pleas, fewer trials and more convictions.

    Warren Diepraam, an assistant district attorney in Montgomery County, Texas, north of Houston, said nearly half of the suspected drunken drivers refused breath tests before authorities there used the policy. Since starting "no refusal nights," Diepraam said only about 10 percent of people in his county reject being tested.

    "We've now gone almost two years in my jurisdiction with no fatalities," Diepraam said.
    "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.” -- Gen. George S. Patton

  2. #2
    Atomic Punk
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    This is how they do it in Houston. They have "judges on the ready" to sign warrants to force breathalyzers.
    Stay out of it, dude.


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  3. #3
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    I think police should be allowed to beat suspects until they take a breath test.

  4. #4
    Baluchitherium loveevhsince79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    I think police should be allowed to beat suspects until they take a breath test.
    Suspects?? Aren't you innocent until proven guilty in Canada?? Maybe after finding someone is sloshed but not before.
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  5. #5
    Atomic Punk
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    Quote Originally Posted by loveevhsince79 View Post
    Suspects?? Aren't you innocent until proven guilty in Canada?? Maybe after finding someone is sloshed but not before.
    hahaha...Mike's all about the law and order...zero tolerance and police might making right. He's an establishmentist. What other response could you expect?

    C'mon Mike, tell us about the ways you'd "nudge" people into behaving appropriately. heeheehee

    Stay out of it, dude.


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  6. #6
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loveevhsince79 View Post
    Suspects?? Aren't you innocent until proven guilty in Canada?? Maybe after finding someone is sloshed but not before.
    In Ontario if you refuse to take a breath test then it's considered to be a test that showed you hammered. As it should be.

  7. #7
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by broken9500 View Post
    hahaha...Mike's all about the law and order...zero tolerance and police might making right. He's an establishmentist. What other response could you expect?

    C'mon Mike, tell us about the ways you'd "nudge" people into behaving appropriately. heeheehee

    Mike's all about gov't sole's job is to protect people like me (aka the good people).

    If a cop pulls you over and thinks you're drunk, TAKE THE DAMN TEST. If you're an ass that refuses then I don't mind the cop going Big Boss Man on your ass & beating you with a nightstick until you change your mind.
    Last edited by It's Mike; 12.14.10 at 09:43 AM.

  8. #8
    Atomic Punk ziggysmalls's Avatar
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    I know in Ohio they say if you know you are going to blow past a .08, don't take the test. Sure you will get your license suspended for I believe 12 months but you won't do jail time and your fine will be less severe.

    Personally I don't believe you should have the right to refuse the test because driving is not a right. If the cops pull me over and they want to search the trunk of my car, they have the right to do so. They do not have to ask me so I don't understand why I need to give my permission to take the test. Blood being drawn is possibly a different story because it involves a needle, pain and potentially a phobia.

  9. #9
    Damage your reputation seenbad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    Mike's all about gov't sole's job is to protect people like me (aka the good people).

    If a cop pulls you over and thinks you're drunk, TAKE THE DAMN TEST. If you're an ass that refuses then I don't mind the cop going Big Boss Man on your ass & beating you with a nightstick until you change your mind.
    There are some that applaud your stance on the issue.

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  10. #10
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seenbad View Post
    There are some that applaud your stance on the issue.

    as would the "18 people that died in alcohol-related crashes in his Louisiana parish two years ago". But no one cares about them.

  11. #11
    Damage your reputation seenbad's Avatar
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    There is a process in place to punish and provide justice when it's due. This process should coexist with the concept of innocent until proven guilty and preservation of rights until such time.
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  12. #12
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seenbad View Post
    There is a process in place to punish and provide justice when it's due. This process should coexist with the concept of innocent until proven guilty and preservation of rights until such time.
    i was kidding about the cops beating a breath test into anyone. But if the law allows you to refuse a breath test then the law is an ass. Driving is a privilege, if you're the type who won't submit to a breath test when an officer thinks you're drunk then you shouldn't be given that privilege.

    This action (refusing a test) should be seen as an admission of guilt.

  13. #13
    Atomic Punk ziggysmalls's Avatar
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    Then again, do we not "reward" criminals when they admit they are guilty over those that we have to prove in a court of law?

    By having a guy refuse the breath test, he is in fact getting a break but at the same time is being punished.

  14. #14
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziggysmalls View Post
    Then again, do we not "reward" criminals when they admit they are guilty over those that we have to prove in a court of law?

    By having a guy refuse the breath test, he is in fact getting a break but at the same time is being punished.
    how bout we throw them both in jail (the guy who tests over and the guy who refuses) but we give the test refuser a cookie?

  15. #15
    Atomic Punk
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziggysmalls View Post
    I know in Ohio they say if you know you are going to blow past a .08, don't take the test. Sure you will get your license suspended for I believe 12 months but you won't do jail time and your fine will be less severe.

    Personally I don't believe you should have the right to refuse the test because driving is not a right. If the cops pull me over and they want to search the trunk of my car, they have the right to do so. They do not have to ask me so I don't understand why I need to give my permission to take the test. Blood being drawn is possibly a different story because it involves a needle, pain and potentially a phobia.
    I don't agree with this at all brother. Cops are NOT infallible. Cops are not immune from racism, poor judgement, assholicism, napoleon complexes or any other personality flaw that causes them to either 1. make mistakes or 2. do bad things on purpose.

    The laws of the US were designed to protect people from one another and from the state.

    Driving may be a privilege but property rights, being free of illegal search and seizure and harrassment and initimidation from the government and police are NOT privileges...they are RIGHTS.

    Just because a cop is demanding you do something does not mean he has a legal leg to stand on or that you have no rights.

    The more we surrender to them the more they will intimidate and bully people into conforming, relenting and complying even when we shouldn't.

    And yes, they do have to ask you to search your car...because they don't have the RIGHT to do so. If they could just do it, they wouldn't bother asking.

    In Houston, and I'm sure across the country, police love to go on fishing expeditions. They'll set up on both sides of a busy street with a mobile unit down the road where they can process people. Then they send the fishermen out on the road to randomly pull people over for having a "tail light out" or because your "license plate light is out." Then they begin questioning. Where are you going, why are you out, can I search your car, will you submit to a breathalizer etc etc etc...

    This is NOT RIGHT. They are stopping people with no probable cause in the name of "safety" when really they're just randomly picking people and seeing what's what. Maybe they find some pot, maybe someone is pissed off, gets beligerent and gets arrested for having an attitude. Maybe they do get a drunkard, a license that hasn't been updated or renewed, expired insurance, whatever.

    You have the right to demand that they show you cause. The problem is that the cop is in charge. Society has given over their rights. People don't refuse searches, don't demand that the cops show them their busted tail light or license plate light....so that when a few people do, they get carted off to jail.

    This isn't right brother. It's not right at all.

    Yet another reason why the Tea Party is worthless...all this toothless gnawing about personal rights and freedoms but what Tea Party backed candidate ran on a platform that included protecting people from police harrassment, on bringing down the money-making machine that is traffic law and reform of the police system?
    Stay out of it, dude.


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