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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk
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    12.11.17 @ 04:37 PM
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    Federal Judge Rules Against New National Health Care Law

    Federal Judge Rules in Favor of Virginia Challenge to Health Care Law

    Casting an unmistakable and perhaps permanent pockmark on the face of the Obama administration, a federal judge in Virginia ruled Monday that a major component of the new health care reform law is unconstitutional.

    Judge Henry E. Hudson ruled Monday for the state's claim that the requirement for people to purchase health care exceeds the power of Congress under the Constitution's Commerce Clause.

    Hudson's eagerly awaited decision invalidates the requirement that all Americans purchase health insurance by 2014 or face a federal fine. Hudson's decision is the first striking down part of the controversial legislation.

    "It is not the effect on individuals that is presently at issue -- it is the authority of Congress to compel anyone to purchase health insurance," wrote Hudson who was appointed to the federal bench in 2002 by President George W. Bush. "An enactment that exceeds the power of Congress to adopt adversely affects everyone in every application."

    The Obama administration is likely to appeal Monday's ruling to the Richmond-based Fourth Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals. It is widely expected that no matter the outcome before that court, the case will ultimately go before the Supreme Court, perhaps by this time next year.

    In his ruling, Hudson wrote that he is severing that portion of the law, known as Section 1501, but is not granting an injunction against the entire law.

    But Section 1501 is the portion of the law that collects most of the money that is supposed to flow into the system from millions of additional participants. Without it, the law's execution could be severely compromised and could rock the foundation of other provisions in the legislation.

    The lawsuit is just one of nearly two dozen challenges filed in federal courts across the country. Another high-profile suit filed in Florida and joined by 20 states and the National Federation of Independent Businesses will go before Judge Roger Vinson on Thursday.

    Administration officials insist health care exchanges and many other aspects of the law would survive and implementation of the law would proceed. They said they don't anticipate an adverse ruling in Virginia or Florida to affect many aspects of the law.

    That challenge is a broader legal attack on the health care law than the case decided Monday which was filed by Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli on March 23, the same day that President Obama signed the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act into law.

    In the lawsuit, Cuccinelli said the federal government is constitutionally prohibited from forcing Americans to buy insurance.

    "The status of being a citizen or resident of the Commonwealth of Virginia is not a channel of interstate commerce; nor a person or thing in interstate commerce; nor is it an activity arising out of or connected with a commercial transaction," Cuccinelli wrote in his lawsuit.

    In an interview with ABC News last month, President Obama defended the mandate.

    "What I think is appropriate is that in the same way that everybody has to get auto insurance and if you don't, you're subject to some penalty, that in this situation, if you have the ability to buy insurance, it's affordable and you choose not to do so, forcing you and me and everybody else to subsidize you, you know, there's a thousand dollar hidden tax that families all across America are -- are burdened by because of the fact that people don't have health insurance, you know, there's nothing wrong with a penalty," he said.

    Florida Gov.-elect Rick Scott, who gained prominence in his state and nationally during the health care debate, said the Virginia ruling "is great for Floridians and for Americans everywhere."

    "Obamacare is the biggest job killer in the history of this country and this decision will go a long way toward restoring the certainty businesses need to start hiring and restoring some sanity to the federal government," he said in a statement.
    "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.” -- Gen. George S. Patton

  2. #2
    Atomic Punk
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    07.24.11 @ 04:36 PM
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    So does the ruling imply that the states do have the right to force people to buy something?

    I'm not a big supporter of "Obamacare" but I don't get what the big deal is...if we're going to force people to buy auto insurance, I'm not sure why it's so bad to force them to buy health insurance...seems like personal health should be at least as important as a car.
    Stay out of it, dude.


    I am Van Halen.

  3. #3
    Atomic Punk
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    Quote Originally Posted by broken9500 View Post
    if we're going to force people to buy auto insurance
    What if you do not want to, or have a need to own automotive vehicle??
    If you do not own one, you are not required to have insurance just because you have a driver's license...

    Thus why should you be required to buy health insurance, just because you are alive?!?!?

    WOW!!! I stand corrected!!!


    Is Insurance Required?

    •In order to take a driver's test, all states require a driver to have insurance. The driver may be covered under another's policy or bond, but it is a requirement. The license bureau may deny an individual from taking a driving test if she does not show proof of insurance. Not having insurance is illegal, and punishable in a court of law.
    Last edited by voivod; 12.13.10 at 10:18 AM.
    "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.” -- Gen. George S. Patton

  4. #4
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    what a mess.

  5. #5
    Atomic Punk
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    07.24.11 @ 04:36 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by voivod View Post
    What if you do not want to, or have a need to own automotive vehicle??
    If you do not own one, you are not required to have insurance just because you have a driver's license...

    Thus why should you be required to buy health insurance, just because you are alive?!?!?
    well in Texas, you are required to either have insurance OR proof of financial responsibility in the car at all times...they'll accept a bond worth, I think 10K.

    You need insurance to buy a car, renew tags, get a license etc. If you want to drive, you have to have insurance.

    Why? Because of the financial strain NOT having it can have on others...and because the insurance companies successfully lobbied for it.

    Seems like not having health insurance can create similar strains.

    But like I said though, I'm not a supporter of Obamacare and i'm undecided on the whole forced purchase of insurance thing.
    Stay out of it, dude.


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  6. #6
    Atomic Punk
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    Quote Originally Posted by broken9500 View Post
    If you want to drive, you have to have insurance.
    NO SHIT?!?!

    wow

    WOW!!! I stand corrected!!!


    Is Insurance Required?

    •In order to take a driver's test, all states require a driver to have insurance. The driver may be covered under another's policy or bond, but it is a requirement. The license bureau may deny an individual from taking a driving test if she does not show proof of insurance. Not having insurance is illegal, and punishable in a court of law.
    Last edited by voivod; 12.13.10 at 10:19 AM.
    "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.” -- Gen. George S. Patton

  7. #7
    Atomic Punk
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    07.24.11 @ 04:36 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by voivod View Post
    NO SHIT?!?!

    wow

    WOW!!! I stand corrected!!!


    Is Insurance Required?

    •In order to take a driver's test, all states require a driver to have insurance. The driver may be covered under another's policy or bond, but it is a requirement. The license bureau may deny an individual from taking a driving test if she does not show proof of insurance. Not having insurance is illegal, and punishable in a court of law.
    Yeah I know that sounds super dumb of me to say...but my question is this: is there any comparison or parallel between having to have auto insurance in order to drive and having health insurance to...I don't really know...maybe in order to hold down employment or something?

    Again, I'm undecided as to how I feel about this particular aspect of it for a variety of reasons but I think the auto insurance laws may provide us with some basis. no?
    Stay out of it, dude.


    I am Van Halen.

  8. #8
    Atomic Punk
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    Quote Originally Posted by broken9500 View Post
    Yeah I know that sounds super dumb of me to say...but my question is this: is there any comparison or parallel between having to have auto insurance in order to drive and having health insurance to...I don't really know...maybe in order to hold down employment or something?

    Again, I'm undecided as to how I feel about this particular aspect of it for a variety of reasons but I think the auto insurance laws may provide us with some basis. no?
    Perhaps if living becomes a privilage, such as driving...
    "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.” -- Gen. George S. Patton

  9. #9
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voivod View Post
    Perhaps if living becomes a privilage, such as driving...
    how is this different from being "forced" to pay into social security?

  10. #10
    Atomic Punk
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    how is this different from being "forced" to pay into social security?
    ok...there's a parallel I suppose we can also use. People are "forced" into paying for medicare and social security.

    Hell, people are also "forced" to pay for school funding and a host of other services that they do not necessarily want to fund but they do so because, as a society, it has been deemed to be in the best interest of everyone.

    Are we not simply extending that same rationale to health care?
    Stay out of it, dude.


    I am Van Halen.

  11. #11
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    I just can't believe you guys spent the better part of 2 decades working on a health care bill and it's getting shot down by the courts when it's done.

  12. #12
    Atomic Punk ziggysmalls's Avatar
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    I think what you are seeing here is possibly the start of something big if it goes through. If by chance the Supreme Court rules that the Fed can't force people to buy health care, you may see challenges to Social Security and Medicare. I think what happened is due to the way Obamacare was passed, it was basically the straw that broke the camels back.

    According to Democrats, health care is a right. No one will argue that driving is right therefore different rules may apply.

    Personally I should be able to choose my health care and retirement fund. The government should have no role in what I WANT.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziggysmalls View Post
    I think what you are seeing here is possibly the start of something big if it goes through. If by chance the Supreme Court rules that the Fed can't force people to buy health care, you may see challenges to Social Security and Medicare. I think what happened is due to the way Obamacare was passed, it was basically the straw that broke the camels back.

    According to Democrats, health care is a right. No one will argue that driving is right therefore different rules may apply.

    Personally I should be able to choose my health care and retirement fund. The government should have no role in what I WANT.
    you know me Ziggs...I'm as anti-government and individual-rights as it tends to get but I have a question...or maybe two I guess.

    Do your decisions concerning your retirement and health care have potential to negatively impact others? Shouldn't a government, if it's truly a reflection and manifestation of a good-hearted, altruistic and compassionate people, want to ensure that it's people are protected against illness and injury as well as in old age?
    Stay out of it, dude.


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  14. #14
    Atomic Punk
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    I just can't believe you guys spent the better part of 2 decades working on a health care bill and it's getting shot down by the courts when it's done.
    "you guys" ?

    Will someone please shut off Canada from the internet!!
    "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.” -- Gen. George S. Patton

  15. #15
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voivod View Post
    "you guys" ?

    Will someone please shut off Canada from the internet!!

 

 

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