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  1. #1
    Master Bluesman Elwood P.'s Avatar
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    12.10.17 @ 05:40 PM
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    Default Obama Moves to Freeze Federal Workers Pay

    So the Pres. has annouced a plan to freeze federal workers pay for 2 years. Most of the Republicans are in agreement, some want deeper cuts, 3 years and such. Lots of rhetoric about how the Federal Government and it's workers have to do their part to reduce the deficit and such. Looks like it'll go thru, just a matter of how long the freeze will last and whta other cuts are made at the federal level.

    Here's the kicker; there are some exceptions to the freeze. Members of the military (no problem there, especially with the enlisted ranks), federal judges and their staffs (???)and members of congress. Yes. All this talk of sacrifices having to be made and not one member of congress will lose their raises. And when you're making at least $174,000, some positions pay more, even a small percentage of a raise means significant bucks.

    Maybe I'm delusional it would be nice if congress took the lead and gave themselves a freeze. Of course this specific proposal is from Obama and not congress but does anyone really want to take odds on whether congress will attempt to include theirselves? Anything less makes them the hypocrites that they are. When the hell's the next election?

    Well that's my rant.
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  2. #2
    Atomic Punk Wruff_ajax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elwood P. View Post

    All this talk of sacrifices having to be made and not one member of congress will lose their raises.
    Worthless douchbags.

    Big shits about a federal pay freeze. They're overpaid already,, not to mention the generous benefits.

    All of this talk of cutbacks as they exponentially borrow and print and spend us into oblivion.

    Nothing will get done to resolve what's happening. And then in due time we'll all discover the true meaning of austerity.
    _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_

  3. #3
    Atomic Punk rocknblues81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elwood P. View Post
    So the Pres. has annouced a plan to freeze federal workers pay for 2 years. Most of the Republicans are in agreement, some want deeper cuts, 3 years and such. Lots of rhetoric about how the Federal Government and it's workers have to do their part to reduce the deficit and such. Looks like it'll go thru, just a matter of how long the freeze will last and whta other cuts are made at the federal level.

    Here's the kicker; there are some exceptions to the freeze. Members of the military (no problem there, especially with the enlisted ranks), federal judges and their staffs (???)and members of congress. Yes. All this talk of sacrifices having to be made and not one member of congress will lose their raises. And when you're making at least $174,000, some positions pay more, even a small percentage of a raise means significant bucks.

    Maybe I'm delusional it would be nice if congress took the lead and gave themselves a freeze. Of course this specific proposal is from Obama and not congress but does anyone really want to take odds on whether congress will attempt to include theirselves? Anything less makes them the hypocrites that they are. When the hell's the next election?

    Well that's my rant.
    This is why I'll never vote for these cock suckers.

    Congress is the US's problem.

  4. #4
    Atomic Punk ziggysmalls's Avatar
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    I don't have a problem considering that I have been on a pay freeze for the two years Obama has been in office. If I have to suffer, so should they.

  5. #5
    Atomic Punk edwardv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziggysmalls View Post
    I don't have a problem considering that I have been on a pay freeze for the two years Obama has been in office. If I have to suffer, so should they.
    Ditto and less 401 k match too.
    EVH 1979: Well, actually it's not much of a vacation, because we run everything ourselves. We design our own album cover, we have to be in the office every day to sign checks - the whole corporation revolves around us. Nothing can be done without our approval. We even have photo approval.

  6. #6
    Baluchitherium loveevhsince79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardv View Post
    Ditto and less 401 k match too.
    For us, a pay reduction for my husband (15%) and me (3%) plus they are not contributing to my hubby's retirement account and my company took away 401K match plus increased the percentage paid by employees for insurance.

    This reminds me of how some corporations reduce overhead. It's always the workers who are suppose to sacrifice while management keeps theirs and increases their bonus' because they reduced costs.
    Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we are here we might as well dance.

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  7. #7
    Atomic Punk
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    Quote Originally Posted by loveevhsince79 View Post
    For us, a pay reduction for my husband (15%) and me (3%) plus they are not contributing to my hubby's retirement account and my company took away 401K match plus increased the percentage paid by employees for insurance.

    This reminds me of how some corporations reduce overhead. It's always the workers who are suppose to sacrifice while management keeps theirs and increases their bonus' because they reduced costs.
    careful now...that kind of talk can get you labeled a communist!
    Stay out of it, dude.


    I am Van Halen.

  8. #8
    Atomic Punk ziggysmalls's Avatar
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    I have no problem with corporate getting larger bonuses, perks, etc than the low life workers because it's not what you know, it's who you blow. Those are the perks of the job. However when times are tough and a select few get taken care of while everybody else is supposed to toughen up, well that isn't right.

    All for one and one for all type of mentality is my motto. Last year nobody in our company got a raise but the board of directors received about 10 million in bonuses. That chaps my ass and I am a libertarian at heart.

    However it is capitalism and given the choice of that compared to socialism or communism, I will take it.

  9. #9
    Atomic Punk
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziggysmalls View Post
    I have no problem with corporate getting larger bonuses, perks, etc than the low life workers because it's not what you know, it's who you blow. Those are the perks of the job. However when times are tough and a select few get taken care of while everybody else is supposed to toughen up, well that isn't right.

    All for one and one for all type of mentality is my motto. Last year nobody in our company got a raise but the board of directors received about 10 million in bonuses. That chaps my ass and I am a libertarian at heart.

    However it is capitalism and given the choice of that compared to socialism or communism, I will take it.
    commie.
    Stay out of it, dude.


    I am Van Halen.

  10. #10
    Atomic Punk ziggysmalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by broken9500 View Post
    commie.
    Think of the conflict I have watching Swayze go crazy against the commies in Red Dawn

  11. #11
    Baluchitherium loveevhsince79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziggysmalls View Post
    I have no problem with corporate getting larger bonuses, perks, etc than the low life workers because it's not what you know, it's who you blow. Those are the perks of the job. However when times are tough and a select few get taken care of while everybody else is supposed to toughen up, well that isn't right.

    All for one and one for all type of mentality is my motto. Last year nobody in our company got a raise but the board of directors received about 10 million in bonuses. That chaps my ass and I am a libertarian at heart.

    However it is capitalism and given the choice of that compared to socialism or communism, I will take it.
    I have no problem with capitalism except it has gotten so out of hand on the difference in wages between management and the workers that it can't possible be sustained. It's why the jobs are leaving the US to go overseas. Why pay a guy $12 an hour when you can have someone from India or Mexico or Guatemala do it for $1.50. If it was being put back into the corporations it might start to make sense but instead, it goes in the pockets of management who now have an average difference in pay from the workers of 344 times or to the shareholders.

    "In 2007, CEOs in the S&P 500, averaged $10.5 million annually, 344 times the pay of typical American workers. This was a drop in ratio from 2000, when they averaged 525 times the average pay."

    Just as recently as 1989, the difference was only 71 times the average pay. If these companies want to continue to have a market to sell their product, the people have to have money in their pocket to do so. GM is learning that lesson the hard way. They moved their jobs overseas and lost their built in customer base in the States because the guy making $3.00 in Mexico still can't afford the $28,000 Malibu even though that is big money where he lives.
    Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we are here we might as well dance.

    Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly.

  12. #12
    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loveevhsince79 View Post
    I have no problem with capitalism except it has gotten so out of hand on the difference in wages between management and the workers that it can't possible be sustained. It's why the jobs are leaving the US to go overseas. Why pay a guy $12 an hour when you can have someone from India or Mexico or Guatemala do it for $1.50. If it was being put back into the corporations it might start to make sense but instead, it goes in the pockets of management who now have an average difference in pay from the workers of 344 times or to the shareholders.

    "In 2007, CEOs in the S&P 500, averaged $10.5 million annually, 344 times the pay of typical American workers. This was a drop in ratio from 2000, when they averaged 525 times the average pay."

    Just as recently as 1989, the difference was only 71 times the average pay. If these companies want to continue to have a market to sell their product, the people have to have money in their pocket to do so. GM is learning that lesson the hard way. They moved their jobs overseas and lost their built in customer base in the States because the guy making $3.00 in Mexico still can't afford the $28,000 Malibu even though that is big money where he lives.
    It's not necessarily a zero-sum game, though. Just because the rich make more doesn't mean that the standard of living goes down for those that aren't rich. The pie gets bigger, it doesn't stay the same and continue to get divided into smaller parts.

    The standard of living for people continues to increase even as income inequality continues to increase.

    A CEO may be able to afford an $11,000 Sub-zero PRO 48 refrigerator and his below average employee may only be able to afford a $350 IKEA refrigerator. Refrigerator ubiquity continues to grow despite the fact the refrigerator inequality continues to grow. But the difference in a fridge is much less marked than having/not having a fridge, which is increasingly rare. How many people do you know that don't live in a house with a fridge that work for one of these companies? 70% of those below the poverty line own at least 1 car. It may not be a Ferrari, but again, the difference between the Ferrari and the used Geo Metro is much less marked than the difference between a car and no car.

  13. #13
    Atomic Punk ziggysmalls's Avatar
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    12.10.17 @ 06:47 AM
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    Well honestly how many CEO's are out there today in America? Ones that are making 10 million a year? 10,000? Considering that there are over 300 million people in America, I would say that the vast majority of Americans fall into the "worker" class just like they were in 1990, 1980, 1970 and so on.

    Face it, in a country such as ours there will be rich and poor along with the super rich and super poor. You also are going to have the people in the middle. Of course everybody beomoans the lack of the middle class. It's still there however the middle class has champagne taste on a beer budget. That is what causes us our problems.

    The least of our problems are CEO's of multi-million or multi-billion companies making money. It's the Iphones, Ipads, 200 dollar cable bills, 400k houses, 40k auto's, etc that have gotten the vast majority of Americans in trouble.

    Me being pissed at a CEO is like me being pissed off at Cliff Lee when he gets his 100 million guaranteed contract.

    I know its terrible that outsourcing occurs due to cheap labor overseas. However do you know how much your flat panel TV is going to cost if its made here in the States? People are not going to go for spending $1000 on a 19 inch monitor because the United TV Makers are saying their union members have to be making 30 an hour.

    Unfortunately the economy of the 50's is not going to return. America had its run.

  14. #14
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    it's a start. and in times of low inflation it's not much of a hit for the workers - probably best to bite the bullet on this. Also for the best for congress to immediately vote themselves a pay cut before they force anyone else to take a hit. In Ontario we are currently having the same fight over this.

  15. #15
    Atomic Punk jrk5150's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post
    It's not necessarily a zero-sum game, though. Just because the rich make more doesn't mean that the standard of living goes down for those that aren't rich. The pie gets bigger, it doesn't stay the same and continue to get divided into smaller parts.

    The standard of living for people continues to increase even as income inequality continues to increase.

    A CEO may be able to afford an $11,000 Sub-zero PRO 48 refrigerator and his below average employee may only be able to afford a $350 IKEA refrigerator. Refrigerator ubiquity continues to grow despite the fact the refrigerator inequality continues to grow. But the difference in a fridge is much less marked than having/not having a fridge, which is increasingly rare. How many people do you know that don't live in a house with a fridge that work for one of these companies? 70% of those below the poverty line own at least 1 car. It may not be a Ferrari, but again, the difference between the Ferrari and the used Geo Metro is much less marked than the difference between a car and no car.
    Too simplified, and you miss the problem. What happens, is that CEO got that bonus by cutting costs. The largest, by far, cost in a company, and really the only one you can make a difference by cutting, is personnel. So what you have is a bunch of workers on the street not buying ANY fridge, while the remaining workers ruin their health and alienate their families by working obscene hours because they're doing the job of 3 people - and they have an old fridge because they haven't gotten a raise in 3 years, while their health insurance premiums have increased by 30% over that time. And the CEO is getting a $10 million bonus.

    It's ugly. Somewhere there's a humanity disconnect. These CEO's aren't human beings any more.

    I've said it before - the system's broken. Wish I had an answer for how to fix it. I'd probably be rich, LOL.

 

 

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