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  1. #1
    Gird your loins Daisy Hill's Avatar
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    12.16.17 @ 07:41 PM
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    Default College drop outs cost taxpayers billions

    Interesting.....there's a lot of ways of looking at this subject, it's becoming kind of controversial in Ohio

    what do you think?

    College Dropouts Cost Taxpayers Billions: Report
    ERIC GORSKI | 10/11/10 03:56 AM | spiring



    Dropping out of college after a year can mean lost time, burdensome debt and an uncertain future for students.

    Now there's an estimate of what it costs taxpayers. And it runs in the billions.

    States appropriated almost $6.2 billion for four-year colleges and universities between 2003 and 2008 to help pay for the education of students who did not return for year two, a report released Monday says.

    In addition, the federal government spent $1.5 billion and states spent $1.4 billion on grants for students who didn't start their sophomore years, according to "Finishing the First Lap: The Cost of First-Year Student Attrition in America's Four-Year Colleges and Universities."

    The dollar figures, based on government data and gathered by the nonprofit American Institutes for Research, are meant to put an economic exclamation point on the argument that college completion rates need improvement.

    But the findings also could give ammunition to critics who say too many students are attending four-year schools and that pushing them to finish wastes even more taxpayer money.

    The Obama administration, private foundations and others are driving a shift from focusing mostly on making college more accessible to getting more students through with a diploma or certificate.

    Mark Schneider, a vice president at the American Institutes for Research and former commissioner of the Education Department's National Center for Education Statistics, said the report's goal is to spotlight the costs of losing students after year one, the most common exit door in college.

    "We're all about college completion right now, and I agree 100 percent with the college completion agenda and we need a better-educated adult population and workforce," Schneider said.

    The cost of educating students who drop out after one year account for between 2 to 8 percent of states' total higher education appropriations, Schneider said. He said the report emphasizes state spending because states provide most higher education money and hold the most regulatory sway over institutions and can drive change.

    Ohio, for example, has moved toward using course and degree completion rates in determining how much money goes to its public colleges and universities instead of solely using enrollment figures.

    "We recognize an institution is not going to be perfect on graduation and completion rates," said Eric Fingerhut, chancellor of the Ohio Board of Regents. "But at the same time, we know they can do better than they're doing. And if you place the financial rewards around completion, then you will motivate that."

    The AIR report draws from Department of Education data, which Schneider concedes does not provide a full picture.

    The figures track whether new full-time students at 1,521 public and private colleges and universities return for year two at the same institution. It doesn't include part-timers, transfers or students who come back later and graduate.

    The actual cost to taxpayers may run two to three times higher given those factors and others, including the societal cost of income lost during dropouts' year in college, said Richard Vedder, an Ohio University economics professor. And tying state appropriations to student performance could just cause colleges to lower their standards, he said.

    Robert Lerman, an American University economics professor who, like Vedder, questions promoting college for all, said the report fleshes out the reality of high dropout rates. But he said it could just as easily be used to argue that less-prepared, less-motivated students are better off not going to college.

    "Getting them to go a second year might waste even more money," Lerman said. "Who knows?"

    Online: http://collegemeasures.org/

    survivor of the Bowling Green Massacre 9-3-2016 BGSU 10 OSU 77

    She was warned. She was given an explanation. Nevertheless, she persisted.

  2. #2
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    not shocking but there ain't much you can do about it unfortunately. Uneducated people cost society money but what's the alternative, not charging tuition to get more people to stay in school (and hence cost society more money?)

  3. #3
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    The actual cost to taxpayers may run two to three times higher given those factors and others, including the societal cost of income lost during dropouts' year in college,
    this is a nice example of bullshit math though to try to make a case that might not exist without it.

  4. #4
    Atomic Punk MF5150's Avatar
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    12.16.17 @ 09:55 AM
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    So this article is essentially saying....if you drop out of college after a year you are costing the tax payers money.

    Yet, if you happen to press on and stay for a couple more years.....you just might end up costing the tax payers even more money.


    Am I reading the article correctly? Am I getting it?
    My man, when you are fantasizing, don't go for attainable, you can get attainable at the local Applebee's. - Dave's Dreidel

  5. #5
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MF5150 View Post
    So this article is essentially saying....if you drop out of college after a year you are costing the tax payers money.

    Yet, if you happen to press on and stay for a couple more years.....you just might end up costing the tax payers even more money.


    Am I reading the article correctly? Am I getting it?
    I guess the "between the lines" argument is alot of kids are attending university that don't belong there.

  6. #6
    Atomic Punk MF5150's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    I guess the "between the lines" argument is alot of kids are attending university that don't belong there.
    Well that's something that really can't be controlled can it? I see kids everyday in my classes and I wonder, "How the fuck did they get here? Did they just wander in?"

    I don't mean to stereotype, but when a guy has his pants around his fuckin' knees it begs the question.
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  7. #7
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MF5150 View Post
    Well that's something that really can't be controlled can it? I see kids everyday in my classes and I wonder, "How the fuck did they get here? Did they just wander in?"

    I don't mean to stereotype, but when a guy has his pants around his fuckin' knees it begs the question.
    it can be controlled to a certain extent by ensuring that getting into a 4 year school isn't easy. When I went to U of T, you basically needed to be an A minus student in high school to get in, not sure if the same is true now. But even being a good student doesn't mean you'll succeed in university. I sucked for a couple years, just picked up too many bad study habits in high school. But pants at the knees might be a clue that someone doesn't belong.

  8. #8
    Gird your loins Daisy Hill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MF5150 View Post
    So this article is essentially saying....if you drop out of college after a year you are costing the tax payers money.

    Yet, if you happen to press on and stay for a couple more years.....you just might end up costing the tax payers even more money.


    Am I reading the article correctly? Am I getting it?

    yeah, that's how I read it too...and it is true to a certain extent

    some people NEVER should step foot in a 4 year college....either they are doing it for the wrong reasons, or they just don't have the capacity to finish...and if they don't, and they cannot find employment based upon the unfinished education they have....there is a cost there

    some people belong in 2 year technical programs

    some people need to wait until they mature more


    i have a family member who worked in higher education in a retention capacity


    his entire job revolved around holding the hands of people who should never have been in the school in the first place and trying to get them through to the finish....the odds are low

    it is VERY LUCRATIVE for both public and private schools to get new students in regardless of whether they have the capacity to succeed in the environment or not

    survivor of the Bowling Green Massacre 9-3-2016 BGSU 10 OSU 77

    She was warned. She was given an explanation. Nevertheless, she persisted.

  9. #9
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daisy Hill View Post


    i have a family member who worked in higher education in a retention capacity


    his entire job revolved around holding the hands of people who should never have been in the school in the first place and trying to get them through to the finish....the odds are low

    it is VERY LUCRATIVE for both public and private schools to get new students in regardless of whether they have the capacity to succeed in the environment or not
    and this would point to the "we should raise tuition" theory to ensure that only those that really want to be there are in those schools. But it also ensures that some people that should be there, can't be. Such a tricky thing.

    I agree with you on vocational schools, the idiots that run my province finally figured this out a few years back and we're starting to see a lot of kids pointed towards something that (1) they might like (2) will set them up with really good gigs going forward. It makes sense. Alot of kids go to university just because they figure that's the next step in their education as opposed to because they want to do something at university. That said, I didn't know what i wanted to do at universty but i wouldn't have my job without it. I guess what I'm saying is I don't know the answer.

  10. #10
    Baluchitherium loveevhsince79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    and this would point to the "we should raise tuition" theory to ensure that only those that really want to be there are in those schools. But it also ensures that some people that should be there, can't be. Such a tricky thing.

    I agree with you on vocational schools, the idiots that run my province finally figured this out a few years back and we're starting to see a lot of kids pointed towards something that (1) they might like (2) will set them up with really good gigs going forward. It makes sense. Alot of kids go to university just because they figure that's the next step in their education as opposed to because they want to do something at university. That said, I didn't know what i wanted to do at universty but i wouldn't have my job without it. I guess what I'm saying is I don't know the answer.
    You would think the parents should be helping them make this decision. I'm already preaching to my kids about the importance of their education and that they will be expected to attend college HOWEVER, I also stress that if they find something that they really love to do, we would be supportive of whatever is needed for them to go into that field which may not need a 4 yr college education. The main objective of being a parent is guiding your children to be able to support and take care of themselves.
    Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we are here we might as well dance.

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  11. #11
    carpe damn diem billy007's Avatar
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    12.16.17 @ 07:14 PM
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    Maybe there just need to be different levels of college -

    If you are going to college because you wish to further your education and specialise in a field that requires additional education, then we have colleges that you go to without a dime of tuition - as long as you've maintained, say, an 88 average in high school. There are no athletic scholarships - any sports are played as a diversion from you academic requirements. You can attend one of these schools with less than an 88 average, but you will pay tuition. If, during your first semester you demonstrate a dedication to your studies (and thus pass your classes with a high average), further tuition will be waived as long as you continue to do so.

    If you are going to college because you have been told it's the thing to do and all you really care about is getting drunk and screwing coeds and rooting for Good Ol' U, then we'll have those colleges, too, where you are welcome to attend by either paying tuition or being one of those athletes lucky enough to get a scholarship and then in four years of acquiring the proper amounts of credits, you too can proudly announce to the world that you are a college graduate and proudly display your diploma by your greeting station at Wal-Mart and slap some more Good Ol' U bumper stickers on your car.

 

 

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