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  1. #1
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    12.16.17 @ 08:56 AM
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    Default Couple urged surrogate to abort fetus due to defect

    this was the cover story of one of our national papers this morning. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. The story really hit home with me personally.

    When a B.C. couple discovered that the fetus their surrogate mother was carrying was likely to be born with Down syndrome, they wanted an abortion. The surrogate, however, was determined to take the pregnancy to term, sparking a disagreement that has raised thorny questions about the increasingly common arrangements.

    Under the agreement the trio signed, the surrogate’s choice would mean absolving the couple of any responsibility for raising the child, the treating doctor told a recent fertility-medicine conference.

    Dr. Ken Seethram, revealing the unusual situation for the first time, said it raises questions about whether government oversight of contracts between mothers and “commissioning” parents is needed.

    A bioethicist who has studied the issue extensively argues that contract law should not apply to the transaction, unless human life is to be treated like widgets in a factory.

    “Should the rules of commerce apply to the creation of children? No, because children get hurt,” said Juliet Guichon of the University of Calgary. “It’s kind of like stopping the production line: ‘Oh, oh, there’s a flaw.’ It makes sense in a production scenario, but in reproduction it’s a lot more problematic.”

    Prof. Guichon speculated that courts likely would not honour a surrogacy contract, drawing instead on family law that would require the biological parents to support the child.

    It appears no surrogacy contract has actually been contested in a Canadian court, however, leaving the transactions in some legal limbo.



    Read more: http://www.nationalpost.com/news/Cou...#ixzz11aA09img

  2. #2
    Baluchitherium
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    04.02.15 @ 07:26 AM
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    Downs isnt a death sentance, so why treat it like one?
    people with Downs Syndrome can still lead perfectly normal lives, have relationships, go to regular schools and have similar opportunities that and non-downs person can.
    society is fucked up sometimes.
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  3. #3
    Good Enough avhevhmashdlr's Avatar
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    03.10.14 @ 08:22 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommywho5150 View Post
    Downs isnt a death sentance, so why treat it like one?
    people with Downs Syndrome can still lead perfectly normal lives, have relationships, go to regular schools and have similar opportunities that and non-downs person can.
    and they are some of the nicest, kindest and most gentle people you may come across in your entire life.
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  4. #4
    Atomic Punk Wruff_ajax's Avatar
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    12.16.17 @ 07:17 AM
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    Good on the surrogate mother. Great for the kid if he gets to stay with her. Sounds like she loves this child.

    This couple on the other hand... Imagine being raised by a mother and father who wanted you literally torn from the womb and thrown in the garbage.

    Had the child been completely normal to term then he/she would have been handed over to this couple at birth and raised by parents who in truth would want him/her killed for being different. Now though, simply because he/she is a little different, they get a mom who truly loves them.
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  5. #5
    Atomic Punk ziggysmalls's Avatar
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    12.16.17 @ 08:21 AM
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    So let me get this straight.

    It's not ok to abort a baby with Downs who's parents don't want it but its perfectly acceptable to abort millions of other babies every year who's parents refuse them as well.

    I am pro-choice so don't think I am preaching from the soap box about the evils of abortion. However some 18 year old is having an abortion right now because she didn't want to accept the challenges of raising a baby. So she is taking the easy way out. These people didn't want to face the challenge of raising a special needs kid so they wanted the easy way out.

    It's their choice isn't it?

    I know to some its terrible that they only consider it because the kid is going to have Downs but thousands of babies are being aborted today with no fanfare so I don't think this is anything to get upset about.

  6. #6
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Default

    I think there's just so many issues to this story. To force a surrogate to have an abortion is something that is so wrong. Also, if two people are so desperate to have a child that they would get a surrogate, I find it amazing that they would have her abort.

    It also becomes a tricky issue going forward if a court says that she has to abort. Would the biological parents have the right to demand a surrogate abort for any reason? They wanted a boy and it's a girl, they wanted a girl and it's a boy, they changed their mind about having a kid, etc.

    It hit me personally since my wife is currently pregnant with twins and we were told that Downs was a possibilty for both and decided to not find out officially since we couldn't imagine aborting (and there is some risk of miscarriage in doing the test). From what we were told by a genetics counsellor the vast majority of people abort when they find out so I guess I shouldn't be shocked that the biological parents want to take that option. But it really speaks to what society has come to. To kill your kid because he/she isn't what you expected? Damn, I don't get it.

  7. #7
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziggysmalls View Post
    So let me get this straight.

    It's not ok to abort a baby with Downs who's parents don't want it but its perfectly acceptable to abort millions of other babies every year who's parents refuse them as well.

    I am pro-choice so don't think I am preaching from the soap box about the evils of abortion. However some 18 year old is having an abortion right now because she didn't want to accept the challenges of raising a baby. So she is taking the easy way out. These people didn't want to face the challenge of raising a special needs kid so they wanted the easy way out.

    It's their choice isn't it?

    I know to some its terrible that they only consider it because the kid is going to have Downs but thousands of babies are being aborted today with no fanfare so I don't think this is anything to get upset about.
    i think it's a little different because you're forcing the surrogate to go through that. The parents don't have to go through it, she does.

  8. #8
    Baluchitherium loveevhsince79's Avatar
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    10.23.15 @ 04:49 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    i think it's a little different because you're forcing the surrogate to go through that. The parents don't have to go through it, she does.
    But it is basically a womb for hire. I think that the people who hire a surrogate have a lot of say so over the surrogate such as requiring that they take prenatal vitamins, eat properly, don't smoke, have all medication approved by an OB/GYN, etc. I am very much pro choice and under normal circumstances I would support this woman's decision because it is her body however, does she give up the right to make the decisions about her body when she puts a price tag on it's use? I do think that this couple is a bit screwy. I can't imagine being so desperate for a child that you hire a surrogate and because it's not a "perfect" child, which no child is, they would want to abort it but that's just me.
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  9. #9
    Eruption DiveBomb's Avatar
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    05.11.15 @ 11:56 AM
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    In this situation, the whole argument of "pro-choice" because "it's my body; I'll do what I want with it" becomes obsolete because if the biological parents legally force the surrogate mother to abort, then it's not a choice.

    Regardless of what I - or anyone else - personally believe about abortion, forcing any woman to abort a baby growing in her womb is unethical to the point where I can't even believe it is being debated.
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  10. #10
    Gird your loins Daisy Hill's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 05:43 PM
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    altho you would probably have to categorize me as "pro choice" ..I've always been of the opinion that abortion should not be illegal, it should be obsolete....with the very effective birth control options we have, including abstinence, unplanned pregnancies should be a tiny minority of pregnancies


    however this is horrible


    these parents have determined that they will not accept defective goods from their contracted carrier


    so why not allow the surrogate to decide whether she would want to raise the child or give the child up for adoption?

    to just decide that the "defective goods" must be destroyed and force the surrogate into that decision is horrible....SHE is the one that has to live with the knowledge that she underwent the procedure

    just terrible

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  11. #11
    Baluchitherium loveevhsince79's Avatar
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    10.23.15 @ 04:49 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daisy Hill View Post
    altho you would probably have to categorize me as "pro choice" ..I've always been of the opinion that abortion should not be illegal, it should be obsolete....with the very effective birth control options we have, including abstinence, unplanned pregnancies should be a tiny minority of pregnancies

    I really wish we could get to a point where unwanted fetuses could be removed and implanted into a woman who is desperate for a child.
    Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we are here we might as well dance.

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  12. #12
    Eruption
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    12.15.17 @ 06:41 AM
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    My wife and I were told that our youngest son had a great possiblity of having downs and asked us to consider to abort. Our son was born and didn't have downs after all, and he is a very healthy happy 6 yr kid today.
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  13. #13
    Atomic Punk jimmy812's Avatar
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    This can't be the first time something like this has happened.

    I give credit to the surrogate mother. Good for her.

    My wife and I didn't want to do the tests to detect Downs for our baby. Our daughter was born 7 months ago (no Downs) and she's healthy. But even if Downs had been detected, the thought of abortion would never have entered our minds.
    We know a couple that did the test and Downs was detected. They have a beautiful 2-year old baby girl now with Downs Syndrome. There have been a lot of challenges for the family but they continue to feel blessed having her. I saw her this weekend and she is an absolute joy.

    I'm pro-choice but this case is interesting. If the contract absolves them of their responsibility then, I guess, they should be absolved. They should, however, pay a nice compensation to the surrogate anyway.
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  14. #14
    Baluchitherium loveevhsince79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmy812 View Post
    This can't be the first time something like this has happened.

    I give credit to the surrogate mother. Good for her.

    My wife and I didn't want to do the tests to detect Downs for our baby. Our daughter was born 7 months ago (no Downs) and she's healthy. But even if Downs had been detected, the thought of abortion would never have entered our minds.
    We know a couple that did the test and Downs was detected. They have a beautiful 2-year old baby girl now with Downs Syndrome. There have been a lot of challenges for the family but they continue to feel blessed having her. I saw her this weekend and she is an absolute joy.

    I'm pro-choice but this case is interesting. If the contract absolves them of their responsibility then, I guess, they should be absolved. They should, however, pay a nice compensation to the surrogate anyway.
    And this brings up a good question. What happens if she gets to have the baby and it does not have Down's. Can the biological parents try to get their child back? That would be a really sticky wicket.
    Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we are here we might as well dance.

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  15. #15
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loveevhsince79 View Post
    And this brings up a good question. What happens if she gets to have the baby and it does not have Down's. Can the biological parents try to get their child back? That would be a really sticky wicket.
    i think once they give up the rights to the kid that's the end of it.

    How could you possibly give that kid to them when they wanted the kid dead and the whole world knows it? That would be a very healthy relationship.

 

 

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