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  1. #6841
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    For Jape:


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    A Lonely Place to Die

    That looked good.
    Taylor Swift is nice to look at. Adele can sing.

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  5. #6844
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    Rewatched Collateral.

    Great film. Great music. Tom Cruise is outstanding playing against type. A wonderful, moody noir with the emphasis on the character study between two juxtaposing characters. Not since Cohen and Tate has a dialogue-heavy film primarily set in a car been so engrossing and revelationary.

    The film suffers in the homestretch, forgoing it's mesmerising 100 minutes for generic action that truly feels contrived and rushed, as if Mann and co said 'shit, we gotta wrap this up' or studio interference (which didn't happen, BTW) insisted on something cliche for the masses. And, ultimately, the film suffers from the Bodhi Effect: whereby the antagonist is fascinating and extremely likeable. Vincent is intelligent, articulate, perceptive and erudite. His cold, professionalism, unarguable logic, and chillingly efficient yet brutal Special Ops skills - apart from being what James Bond would really be like rather than the flirt with the permanent hard-on we all know - just exacerbates our investment and admiration. As per Point Break's Bodhi. He's the Ultimate Badass who can kill your agument with solid debate just as easily as a double tap from his Glock.

    Max was never a match for Vincent, just as Utah was no match for Bodhi, and it's not only incongruent when the final battle goes his way but I never bought Max's investment in stopping Vincent. Okay, he fancies the woman Vincent's trying to kill but that's all, it's not love, and the final scene is less about protecting her and more a culmination of all the terror he's been through that night and all he's learned from Vincent and as such, his moralistic desire to risk his life and play hero felt rushed and insincere and took the shine off an otherwise exemplary film. Same with Point Break - the entire movie showed us how enlightened Bodhi was and what a cool guy he is and then, in the final act, they ramp up his viciousness as though they really needed to get the audience onside for the hero to stop him. The downside is it didn't feel organic and to this day, Bodhi is the character we all remember, the chicks want to be with, and the guys want to be.

  6. #6845
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Dreidel View Post
    A Lonely Place to Die

    That looked good.
    It most certainly is. Hopefully you can Netflix it. Failing that, just watch the film on You Tube.

  7. #6846
    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlofeldsCat View Post
    Rewatched Collateral.

    Great film. Great music. Tom Cruise is outstanding playing against type. A wonderful, moody noir with the emphasis on the character study between two juxtaposing characters. Not since Cohen and Tate has a dialogue-heavy film primarily set in a car been so engrossing and revelationary.

    The film suffers in the homestretch, forgoing it's mesmerising 100 minutes for generic action that truly feels contrived and rushed, as if Mann and co said 'shit, we gotta wrap this up' or studio interference (which didn't happen, BTW) insisted on something cliche for the masses. And, ultimately, the film suffers from the Bodhi Effect: whereby the antagonist is fascinating and extremely likeable. Vincent is intelligent, articulate, perceptive and erudite. His cold, professionalism, unarguable logic, and chillingly efficient yet brutal Special Ops skills - apart from being what James Bond would really be like rather than the flirt with the permanent hard-on we all know - just exacerbates our investment and admiration. As per Point Break's Bodhi. He's the Ultimate Badass who can kill your agument with solid debate just as easily as a double tap from his Glock.

    Max was never a match for Vincent, just as Utah was no match for Bodhi, and it's not only incongruent when the final battle goes his way but I never bought Max's investment in stopping Vincent. Okay, he fancies the woman Vincent's trying to kill but that's all, it's not love, and the final scene is less about protecting her and more a culmination of all the terror he's been through that night and all he's learned from Vincent and as such, his moralistic desire to risk his life and play hero felt rushed and insincere and took the shine off an otherwise exemplary film. Same with Point Break - the entire movie showed us how enlightened Bodhi was and what a cool guy he is and then, in the final act, they ramp up his viciousness as though they really needed to get the audience onside for the hero to stop him. The downside is it didn't feel organic and to this day, Bodhi is the character we all remember, the chicks want to be with, and the guys want to be.
    Agree with this. Great first and second act of the movie, and like most movies it seems, a flawed ending. Still, a great flick. Tom Cruise at the top of his game.
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  8. #6847
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlofeldsCat View Post
    Rewatched Collateral.

    Great film. Great music. Tom Cruise is outstanding playing against type. A wonderful, moody noir with the emphasis on the character study between two juxtaposing characters. Not since Cohen and Tate has a dialogue-heavy film primarily set in a car been so engrossing and revelationary.

    The film suffers in the homestretch, forgoing it's mesmerising 100 minutes for generic action that truly feels contrived and rushed, as if Mann and co said 'shit, we gotta wrap this up' or studio interference (which didn't happen, BTW) insisted on something cliche for the masses. And, ultimately, the film suffers from the Bodhi Effect: whereby the antagonist is fascinating and extremely likeable. Vincent is intelligent, articulate, perceptive and erudite. His cold, professionalism, unarguable logic, and chillingly efficient yet brutal Special Ops skills - apart from being what James Bond would really be like rather than the flirt with the permanent hard-on we all know - just exacerbates our investment and admiration. As per Point Break's Bodhi. He's the Ultimate Badass who can kill your agument with solid debate just as easily as a double tap from his Glock.

    Max was never a match for Vincent, just as Utah was no match for Bodhi, and it's not only incongruent when the final battle goes his way but I never bought Max's investment in stopping Vincent. Okay, he fancies the woman Vincent's trying to kill but that's all, it's not love, and the final scene is less about protecting her and more a culmination of all the terror he's been through that night and all he's learned from Vincent and as such, his moralistic desire to risk his life and play hero felt rushed and insincere and took the shine off an otherwise exemplary film. Same with Point Break - the entire movie showed us how enlightened Bodhi was and what a cool guy he is and then, in the final act, they ramp up his viciousness as though they really needed to get the audience onside for the hero to stop him. The downside is it didn't feel organic and to this day, Bodhi is the character we all remember, the chicks want to be with, and the guys want to be.
    The ending is disappointment, but the rest of the movie is so good that I just say "fuck it". However, Max is obviously not supposed to be a match for Vincent. I mean, it's a hitman vs, a cab driver. Max is not supposed to be overly interesting... He is an average guy that seems largely content with his boring life. Still, I admit that I'm not a huge fan of the ending.
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  9. #6848
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocknblues81 View Post
    The ending is disappointment, but the rest of the movie is so good that I just say "fuck it". However, Max is obviously not supposed to be a match for Vincent. I mean, it's a hitman vs, a cab driver. Max is not supposed to be overly interesting... He is an average guy that seems largely content with his boring life. Still, I admit that I'm not a huge fan of the ending.
    But he is a match for Vincent in the final act when he takes him on and kills him. That's the problem. Had Mann spent the previous 100 minutes showing Vincent to be lazy, rubbish, careless, slow, out of shape then it would make more sense for him to be bested but Mann did the opposite.

  10. #6849
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlofeldsCat View Post
    But he is a match for Vincent in the final act when he takes him on and kills him. That's the problem. Had Mann spent the previous 100 minutes showing Vincent to be lazy, rubbish, careless, slow, out of shape then it would make more sense for him to be bested but Mann did the opposite.
    They were shooting at each other and Max got lucky basically.



    Watch and pause at 3:01. Max closes his eyes as he gets ready to shoot.

    Plus, think about this.... Vincent is used to shooting people at the center. That's his habit. Only here it becomes problematic in that he shoots the metal door. See the bullet holes in the door... Max was shooting the glass and Vincent was shooting the door.

    It was luck and Vincent's habit of executing people the way he did that did him in.

    It's been awhile since I've watched the movie, but I'm pretty sure that this is foreshadowed at some point earlier in the movie. That his way of shooting people... His routine would somehow hurt him at some point in the movie.
    Last edited by rocknblues81; 08.09.18 at 04:05 PM.
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  11. #6850
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    Naw, that's an internet myth. The only comment about his shooting was that it identified the same killer for all the bodies that were popping up at the morgue - most of them witnesses for an upcoming trial, which is when Mark Ruffalo realised there's a hitman on the loose.

    It also disregards the chase and hunt through the office block - which this highly-trained assassin was struggling to take down easy prey and also got a skimming head wound from Max's shooting. Then there's Vincent pausing - if he didn't the doors wouldn't shut on his shot. Like I said, all contrived.

  12. #6851
    Whoa, this is heavy! Jedi McFly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlofeldsCat View Post
    I got the intent and theme of the first film, this one expands the theme - literally bookended by Jeff Goldblum's monologue - and takes it to it logical conclusion rather than regurgitate what's gone before (as Jurrasic World did). This was the first movie since the outrageously underrated Lost World to build and develop upon the seeds of the JP universe.
    I totally agree that this is the first film to push the series forward since The Lost World. III was a rehash and World was essentially a soft-reboot. But World did a good job capturing some of the magic, awe and wonder of the first film while pushing the man-made-horrors aspect a little bit further. My beefs with Fallen Kingdom are

    1) Imbalance in the dichotomy between those two aspects: the wonder vs. the horrors
    2) All negative events are the results of humans rather than the dinos. Everything is either caused by people taking them off the island or deliberately opening their cages. This is as opposed to the entirely female dino population essentially evolving to reproduce in JP1, dinos adapting to the lysine deficiency in JP2, or the Indominus Rex tricking the humans in JW. In JP1, JP2 and JW some of the plot advancement (or disasters) were because "life finds a way" - in FK it was entirely the fault of humans just being idiots.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlofeldsCat View Post
    Beyond that, I really enjoyed it because it had heart, pathos (the final shot of the Brachiosaur missing the boat will live long in my memeory) and coherent, congruent arcs, good action, a nice blend of comic and sassy characters that didn't come across as try hard and a director in J. A. Bayona who has a strong grasp of tension, suspense and (gothic) horror; delivering the goods again just as he did in The Orphanage.
    The final shot of the Brachiosaur was beautiful and deeply emotional to watch. That was probably my favorite moment in this film. To your point, the cinematography and sense of visual story telling was definitely on point in this film. And Bayona didn't overdo it with the horror elements, he played his cards well. Those were the strongest aspects of the film IMO.

    As for the characters, Pratt and Howard were fine, the paleo-vet was fine, I thought the nerdy kid they brought was a bit much. I also felt the impact of...the reveal towards the end of the film wasn't effective. I chalk all that up to writing though, that blame lays squarely on Trevorrow and Connelly, and after this I'm glad they were taken off of Star Wars IX.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlofeldsCat View Post
    The final fight with Blue and Indo was a wonderful throwback to the 30s Universal Monsters, and the way they Indo twice defied audience expectations by not dying in the telegraphed way was demonstrative of the film throughout, never settling for the predictable yet with change ups - such as the mercenaries and Maisy's revelation - that felt organic. Blue also came to the fore a a true character, individual, and with her own personality whereas her only feature in the preceding film was that she was a bit sassy (and even then that revelation only came to light in the final minutes - before that she was one of many).
    I agree that the conflicts, fights, and comebacks between Blue and the Indo-Raptor were all done very well. I really enjoyed those parts.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlofeldsCat View Post
    You're stretching with the moustachioed villain comment but as for cliched Eastern Europeans, you'd be saying that whoever it was. A Brit toff with a cut-glass accent? Seen it. A working-class no-nonsense Cockney? That's Statham's M.O. Germans zat haff vays of making you talk? So passé. Middle Eastern dictators, terrorists and all-round bad guys? Been done to death on screen in the 70, 80s and in real life since the fall of Hussain and the World Trade Centre. Non-regional specific South Americans? Cliche! The Chinese? They've been high visibility for the past decade as the Yen grows more powerful and the world no longer sees them as simple folk in paddy fields with upturned wok on their heads. And there's even bad guy Americans in this film so where else can they turn to find characters that someone, somewhere won't say 'seen it before'?
    It's not the ethnicity that matters, it's the concept overall. Like I mentioned before, I'd rather see advancement of the plot attributed to "life finding a way," than cliched rich villains of any nationality stupidly buying their way into disastrous situations. That theme of "life finding a way" and the events that it leads to almost epitomizes that dichotomy and balance I described between the wonders and horrors of the dinos - they're just surviving, even if its to our detriment. Plot advancements like that are much more effective than, for example, the game warden type dude being a moron, opening the Indo-Raptor cage, getting himself killed, and letting the Indo-Raptor escape. When he opened that cage I let out an audible sigh/groan and the people around me in the theater laughed. I just feel like they have an amazing device to advance the plot and instead they leaned on cliched tropes of stupid decisions and greedy villains.

    That said, I totally respect your opinions and enjoyment of the film. The JP world is a lower level passion of mine, but I love discussing its themes like this.

  13. #6852
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    Some good points, Jedi. It appears you liked quite a lot of the film just not the break away from 'life fiding a way' which would indicate (to me, at least) it gets more positives than negatives from you and a better rating than the one you gave it.

    I concur that leaving the door open for the Indominus was really cheesy but I have no problem with straying from 'life will find a way' After all, real life has so many nuance and avenues to walk down that confining the series to one tack is to not broaden its horizon.

    Also, we have to see where they're going with the series. Trevorrow aways planned a trilogy and that the next intallment is the story he's always wanted to do but has had to set it up with the last two films. Life may yet still find a way after all. I mean, we've seen the Indominus diplaying characteristic and abilities no one expected, Blue has shown herself to be super-intelligent and super-empathetic, and the dinos are now free to flourish in the world.

    I'm curious, are you against the issue being Man because you don't want us to be the bad guys we really are (I understand you're super-religious and you may have an issue with God's Greatest Creation being an overwhelming, inexorable cunt) or did you just find the idea unoriginal?

    I found the whole notion of weaponising, even hybrid-ing with humans, as lad out in JW, to be groan-inducing. It was so dumb, so unworkable (dinos and dino-humans stand no chance againt ballistic missiles) and played out ever since Alien broached the idea 29 year ago) but again, the whole idea could be that in the end life finds a way - rejecting the enlavery and militarisation and breaking free as sentient beings once more.

    Don't get me wrong, FK is not on the ame par as JP or TLW but it's a bloody good entry and step back in the right direction. I was expecting a turd of a film (I think RT has it at 57%) but I was very pleasantly surprised, there was definite growth in the series (and the characters) rather than the fast food result of 'eat it then instantly forget about it' of modern day film making, and there were a ton of nice touches from Bayona.

  14. #6853
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocknblues81 View Post
    It was luck and Vincent's habit of executing people the way he did that did him in.
    I get the luck aspect - which still feels contrived - there was no luck for anyone else who crossed Vincent's path - and the preceding office chase was stretching reality IMO. Still, as you say, a great film and Cruise's second best performance behind TJ Mackey.

  15. #6854
    Whoa, this is heavy! Jedi McFly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlofeldsCat View Post
    I'm curious, are you against the issue being Man because you don't want us to be the bad guys we really are (I understand you're super-religious and you may have an issue with God's Greatest Creation being an overwhelming, inexorable cunt) or did you just find the idea unoriginal?
    Nah, religion has nothing to do with it. I dislike those aspects because I found it to be blatantly lazy story telling when there is such rich opportunity for originality in the world they’ve created.

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    Kill Bill: Vol. 2 on Showtime late last night.

    Such great dialog. I actually prefer it to the first Kill Bill.
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