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  1. #1
    Good Enough SLEEPER5150's Avatar
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    12.03.10 @ 03:16 PM
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    Default Water pump issue

    I posted this also in the Musclecar thread, I know...double post so mods, sorry. I'm just in a bind as my wife starts a new job this weekend, and this is a real problem. i don't want to get soaked at a shop for something that should be so simple.

    First off, I've been tinkering around with classic cars forever, rebuilt motors, bodywork...etc. but this is a real pain in the ass. My wife has an 86' V-6 Mustang that's had some cooling issues...Rad took a rock in it last week on the highway, and burst a day later, and now the water pump is starting to leak because it ran a little dry till she could pull off the road. No problem. went to pick up a replacement. The problem is this.
    It has a clutch fan with a 1 piece shroud. You can't remove one without the other. Should be easy, but it's not. Even if I yanked the rad, which I replaced last week, theres still not enough clearance from the fan to pull the shroud for better access. The bolts that attatch the fan assemby are steel obviously but the pump's flange they bolt into is aluminum, and they are frozen because of electrolesis.
    I get a wrench on them but the pump pulley turns with the wrench because of the extra force required to get 'em out.
    Aside from placing a wrench on an opposing bolthead, which I'm hesitant to do, because I don't want to shear them off in their state, and maybe trweak the fan with the wrench or my arm because of the clearance issue, what is the best method to stop the pulley from freewheeling? Normally, I can grasp the base of the fan to stop this, but with this being a clutchfan this is impossible, and with such limited clearance, this has turned into a real headache.
    Should be such a simple re and re, but this is such an example of departmentalized auto design it's just rediculous.
    So without the prerequisate "Well your first problem is it's a Ford!" answer, does anyone have an idea to make this a bit easier? I've already sprayed down the bolts with Liquid Wrench, and Moovit, but no results yet. I want to tackle this bitch tomorrow. Would a chain whip work, or do you think this would just mangle the pulley?
    I tried my closquarters angled impact gun too, but there's not even enough room for it to get down in there either.
    The only other option I'm seeing is removing the rad and bumper cover to have roon to get an extension in there with an impact wrench, but I really have an issue with having to go to that length to change a damed waterpump!

    Any ideas would be appreciated.
    Thanks in advance!
    She looks so $#@!'n good ,so sexy and so frail....Somethin's got the bite on me, I'm goin' straight to Hell.

  2. #2
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    11.03.17 @ 01:35 PM
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    I've always had good luck with PB Blaster when it comes to jammed/rusted/etc bolts...my next suggestion would be to apply heat to the aluminum hub with a b-tank (butane torch, like used in plumbing) to try to expand the metal slightly.

    While not likely to be true, it would also be good to verify that these are standard bolts and not reverse (LH) thread.
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  3. #3
    Good Enough SLEEPER5150's Avatar
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    12.03.10 @ 03:16 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by VanHalenRules View Post
    I've always had good luck with PB Blaster when it comes to jammed/rusted/etc bolts...my next suggestion would be to apply heat to the aluminum hub with a b-tank (butane torch, like used in plumbing) to try to expand the metal slightly.

    While not likely to be true, it would also be good to verify that these are standard bolts and not reverse (LH) thread.
    Good points. I'm certain they are standard bolts because I worked on the exact same motor from the same year Thunderbird. Also checked the manual. Pretty sure there's no chance it's a reverse thread unit. I'd use the torch on the flange, but then i can't even get to it. It's a deep pulley design, so applying heat to the front isn't gonna do me much good by the time it tranfers to the backside, I'll have bolt expansion as well. Any other thoughts man? i once saw a tool online from Harbour Freight. It was like a chainwhip, but it had a rubber grip stap in place of the chain, but i hav'nt seen these in auto stores anywhere. Hmmmm.
    She looks so $#@!'n good ,so sexy and so frail....Somethin's got the bite on me, I'm goin' straight to Hell.

  4. #4
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    04.02.15 @ 07:26 AM
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    this is gonna sound stupid, but i have done it and it has worked for me in the past...
    pour Coke on the threads/bolts...the acid in it eats away at the corrosion etc, you could also try vinegar.

    Usually though for jobs like this i end up lifting the whole motor out as changing the water pump on most cars also involves changing the timing belt (not sure about the V6 Mustang though)

    also i found this (I've not watched it though) that may be some help.

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  5. #5
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    11.03.17 @ 01:35 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLEEPER5150 View Post
    Good points. I'm certain they are standard bolts because I worked on the exact same motor from the same year Thunderbird. Also checked the manual. Pretty sure there's no chance it's a reverse thread unit. I'd use the torch on the flange, but then i can't even get to it. It's a deep pulley design, so applying heat to the front isn't gonna do me much good by the time it tranfers to the backside, I'll have bolt expansion as well. Any other thoughts man? i once saw a tool online from Harbour Freight. It was like a chainwhip, but it had a rubber grip stap in place of the chain, but i hav'nt seen these in auto stores anywhere. Hmmmm.
    You may be able to find a similar tool at a home improvement store in the plumbing section...similar rubber grip deal used to turn pipe.

    I would suggest using the PB Blaster, or even Kroil...those two have been the best penetrating oils I have ever used...even managed to take out 40 year old exhaust manifold bolts using the PB Blaster.
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  6. #6
    Good Enough SLEEPER5150's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommywho5150 View Post
    this is gonna sound stupid, but i have done it and it has worked for me in the past...
    pour Coke on the threads/bolts...the acid in it eats away at the corrosion etc, you could also try vinegar.

    Usually though for jobs like this i end up lifting the whole motor out as changing the water pump on most cars also involves changing the timing belt (not sure about the V6 Mustang though)

    also i found this (I've not watched it though) that may be some help.

    Haha! Yeah...I've done the vinegar trick before. As far as hoisting out the engine, it's just not an option for times sake. I've got a decent crane and cradle, but for the added time of pulling the motor, it's just not worth it.
    Thanks for the vid, un fortuneatly though, it's beyond the stage I'm at! lol.
    VHR....I'll try to find those products you mentioned. I've not seen them at my local store, but I'll broaden my search tonight and see what I can scrounge up.
    Who makes the PB Blaster? Justice bros.? They make a lot of good stuff.
    She looks so $#@!'n good ,so sexy and so frail....Somethin's got the bite on me, I'm goin' straight to Hell.

  7. #7
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    11.03.17 @ 01:35 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLEEPER5150 View Post
    Haha! Yeah...I've done the vinegar trick before. As far as hoisting out the engine, it's just not an option for times sake. I've got a decent crane and cradle, but for the added time of pulling the motor, it's just not worth it.
    Thanks for the vid, un fortuneatly though, it's beyond the stage I'm at! lol.
    VHR....I'll try to find those products you mentioned. I've not seen them at my local store, but I'll broaden my search tonight and see what I can scrounge up.
    Who makes the PB Blaster? Justice bros.? They make a lot of good stuff.
    Can't remember the manufacturer's name, but down here two of the larger distributors are WalMart and Ace Hardware.
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  8. #8
    Good Enough SLEEPER5150's Avatar
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    12.03.10 @ 03:16 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by VanHalenRules View Post
    Can't remember the manufacturer's name, but down here two of the larger distributors are WalMart and Ace Hardware.
    We have Walmart up here. I'll check 'em out. Thanks!
    She looks so $#@!'n good ,so sexy and so frail....Somethin's got the bite on me, I'm goin' straight to Hell.

  9. #9
    Baluchitherium Ted Van Halen's Avatar
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    12.12.17 @ 03:44 PM
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    If you put enough pressure on the belt you should be able to snap the bolts loose. Very carefully.
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  10. #10
    Eruption ddzavis's Avatar
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    Default Solution?

    First off definitely use PB blaster and let them soak overnight. That shit is the best. Has a fine orange color and a great chemical odor. I had an 94 Ford Ranger. Took off the shroud. Wasn't a lot of room. you have to find a way to lock the fan in place. I recall using a a wheel nut wrench. I used to flat end and got it in behind the fan and found a spot and held the fan and then used a socket wrench with a pipe extension. You can use a breaker bar if you have one. Once one comes the rest come right out. I do the same thing on my Mower deck except I use a piece of 2x4 wood block. It keeps the blade from spinning. Take a good look at it and you'll find a spot. When you go to replace them put a coat of nickel EZ thread on the bolt. Coats them and makes them easier coming out if you need to do it again, Hopefully not. Good Luck.
    Last edited by ddzavis; 08.27.10 at 06:25 PM.

  11. #11
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    10.27.17 @ 06:31 PM
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    Just my .02. Anytime I have clearance issues, which is quite often b/c I have big forearms, I have figured out it's easier to remove pieces and put them back on, rather than trying to work around junk. My rule is to try 1 time, then try removing something to give me room.

    Just last weekend, I had to take the shift kit out of my 300C. By the time I got it out, I had removed the shift kit, the entire center console, ashtray, seat heater switches and part of the damn dash. It's just the way they build stuff nowadays.

    So you can guess my recommendation, especially if you have the radiator off already. The last Ford water pump I replaced was on a late 80s F150, and I took out the radiator and shroud when most people wouldn't have.

    PB is the only penetrating fluid I use, other than Dawn.

    As far as keeping the fan from turning, I use my hand and a cheater bar.

    Don't forget the silicone along with the gasket, use the orange stuff.
    Last edited by Rebel; 08.28.10 at 01:22 PM.

  12. #12
    Good Enough SLEEPER5150's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the help guys!
    Couldn't find PB Blaster up here, but got some gunk from an auto shop. Let it sit, and do it's thing. Got the job done, but gotta tell you, it was an ordeal. I've changed plenty of waterpumps, starters, manifolds over the years, but this was horrible. One bolt broke off an inch deep in the block right at the threads (The bolt itself was 8" long going through the extended aluminum timing cover.) and the second one, the head snapped off due to electrolosis fusing to the housing. I had to use my cutoff wheel to cut a relief to snap the housing away from the bolt!. Then had to back out the remains of the bolt with Visegrips. That took 15 minutes in itself because the bolt was so tight and deep. All this because the previous owner or shop that had done the job prior to us buying the car used very cheap jobber bolts, doubt if they were more than grade two quality, and to make matters worse, they applied no anti-seize for the dissimilar metals or sealant where one of the bolts; the one that snapped in the block penetrates the water jacket. Anyway...got the new pump installed and works great. Again, thanks for all the help! Usually only takes an hour or so at the most to remove accessories, clean parts, scrape old gasket off, chase threads...etc. and reinstall. This ordeal took four hours of knucklebusting to complete.
    Proof....when you buy a used car, you're inheriting all the problems the previous owner had or caused.
    Just a miserable experience. My arms and hands are just mangled today! Lol
    She looks so $#@!'n good ,so sexy and so frail....Somethin's got the bite on me, I'm goin' straight to Hell.

  13. #13
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    At least it's done. Enjoy your Sunday knowing it's taken care of, nice job!

 

 

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