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  1. #1
    Eruption Bigdaddy_14's Avatar
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    10.04.17 @ 06:34 AM
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    Default Ed's sound on Balance album/tour

    was wondering how ed got the guitar to sound so HUGE on the balance album and then the tour. Was it production or something ed was doing himself purposely. The reason why i ask is because, imo, eds guitar has sounded like crap live since the balance tour IF you compare it to the sound in 95. Any ideas? would hope ed would go for more of this sound if a new record were to be made but this is my opinion.
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  2. #2
    On Fire Warmoth's Avatar
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    12.20.12 @ 08:26 AM
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    My opinion is that Eddie loved his EBMM and Eventide Harmonizer. He was exploring Piezo pickups which opened up songs like I Can't Stop Loving You. He was also physically and mentally in different shape which impacts your playing and style. F.U.C.K. and Balance both are like sister albums due to his guitars and setup.

    Also Bruce Fairbairn had a big influence on the sound of that album. VH3 was produced terribly and also Eddie needs to stay away from the recording console and leave that up to the professionals ... stick to writing and playing. Let someone else capture the magic and mix it.

    I haver always thought that once Eddie switched to his Peavey Wolfgang (and also started using his sustainer as a crutch) his sound went South. Some purists think the EBMM guitars we the onset of this as well since OU812 was the last album to feature his old school setup.

    Eddie's guitars and his choice in pickups has evolved, he has gotten away from the natural sound of a classic humbucker played through an amp that has to be cranked to get the sound right.

    Nowadays, his new EVH guitars and AMPS are lightyears away from his original vision and setup. (although they are great pieces, they just aren't the VH we grew up with)
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  3. #3
    Good Enough SLEEPER5150's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warmoth View Post
    My opinion is that Eddie loved his EBMM and Eventide Harmonizer. He was exploring Piezo pickups which opened up songs like I Can't Stop Loving You. He was also physically and mentally in different shape which impacts your playing and style. F.U.C.K. and Balance both are like sister albums due to his guitars and setup.

    Also Bruce Fairbairn had a big influence on the sound of that album. VH3 was produced terribly and also Eddie needs to stay away from the recording console and leave that up to the professionals ... stick to writing and playing. Let someone else capture the magic and mix it.

    I haver always thought that once Eddie switched to his Peavey Wolfgang (and also started using his sustainer as a crutch) his sound went South. Some purists think the EBMM guitars we the onset of this as well since OU812 was the last album to feature his old school setup.

    Eddie's guitars and his choice in pickups has evolved, he has gotten away from the natural sound of a classic humbucker played through an amp that has to be cranked to get the sound right.

    Nowadays, his new EVH guitars and AMPS are lightyears away from his original vision and setup. (although they are great pieces, they just aren't the VH we grew up with)
    This sums it up to a "T". Also, I think since he was exposed to the wall of sound that Johns brought to the table on F.U.C.K., it kinda steered Ed in that direction to acheive the same basic idea on Balance, though it definately has the Fairbairn stamp on it.
    She looks so $#@!'n good ,so sexy and so frail....Somethin's got the bite on me, I'm goin' straight to Hell.

  4. #4
    Romeo Delight
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    There's got to be a component of Eddie's lost hearing too.

    On the III tour, the sound changed fairly dramatically because of the Eventide not being used nearly as much. If you play the amps and guitars from Balance and III they sound essentially the same but when the Eventide comes into play it all changes.

    On the 2004 tour, Eddie's ear seems to have gone to poop. The sound on the 3 "songs" on Best of Both Worlds and live was terrible. The most recent tour wasn't great either but the EVH pickups are much better than the Peavey ones in my opinion and he really nailed it with the 5150 3.

  5. #5
    Good Enough SLEEPER5150's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheVanlaing View Post
    There's got to be a component of Eddie's lost hearing too.

    On the III tour, the sound changed fairly dramatically because of the Eventide not being used nearly as much. If you play the amps and guitars from Balance and III they sound essentially the same but when the Eventide comes into play it all changes.

    On the 2004 tour, Eddie's ear seems to have gone to poop. The sound on the 3 "songs" on Best of Both Worlds and live was terrible. The most recent tour wasn't great either but the EVH pickups are much better than the Peavey ones in my opinion and he really nailed it with the 5150 3.
    Yeah...I'm sure the loss of his upper registers is a factor, but you know what though....On that NAMM video where he played the Fender Frankenstein....as shitty as his playing was, he stopped and dialed in the tone on the 5150 III himself, and it was like "Bam!" There it is! Obviously he was plastered, but the classic tone was definately there. I think on III, Mike Post has to share as much of the blame on the sound of the album. Even Cherone said he was less than happy with the result. Factor in too that the studio had an all new digital recording rig and console, and Ed himself said he'd consider something else in retrospect, but he was assured it was THE way to go for 5150. he basically hired a technician to go through the workings of the rig full time at the studio, and let him go when even he couldn't get satisfactory results.
    You're right though about Ed letting the pros deal with the recording. I still believe Ed WAS capable of getting a good sound in the analog days. His old Universal console was a testament to simplicity, it was used on 4 of the original 6 pack, and at least 1 and 1/2 of the Sam era if not all of OU812.
    He grew up in the studio quite a bit with Donn, so he's no dummy, but the media, and techniques have changed a great deal since analog tape.
    A little goes a long way, and it's too easy to go too far one way or the other.
    Digital is far less forgiving to the final result, though it is easier to edit in the end. Some just find it overwhealming though.
    She looks so $#@!'n good ,so sexy and so frail....Somethin's got the bite on me, I'm goin' straight to Hell.

  6. #6
    Sinner's Swing! johnnybeane's Avatar
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    Eddie's live tone on the III tour sounds like he always had a Wah off stage that was half cocked.
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    Good Enough kowski's Avatar
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    You know, Ed switched from wireless to a really long, stiff, coaxial-feeling cord for the III tour. I bought a really long, stiff, coaxialish cable a while back, and it makes my guitar sound nasally and muffles the highs, kind of like a wah half cocked. Maybe that was part of the change in his live sound?

  8. #8
    Sinner's Swing! johnnybeane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kowski View Post
    You know, Ed switched from wireless to a really long, stiff, coaxial-feeling cord for the III tour. I bought a really long, stiff, coaxialish cable a while back, and it makes my guitar sound nasally and muffles the highs, kind of like a wah half cocked. Maybe that was part of the change in his live sound?
    I remember reading the interview in guitar world right b4 VH3 came out & Eddie said his live setup would be very basic, only a couple straight cabs on stage.

    Kinda weird that he stuck with that tone.
    I think it gets old real fast, would get sick of it after a couple songs.

    But it was a more raw sound than what he had live for years since the 84 tour.
    Last edited by johnnybeane; 08.18.10 at 09:48 PM. Reason: more
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  9. #9
    Good Enough SLEEPER5150's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnybeane View Post
    I remember reading the interview in guitar world right b4 VH3 came out & Eddie said his live setup would be very basic, only a couple straight cabs on stage.

    Kinda weird that he stuck with that tone.
    I think it gets old real fast, would get sick of it after a couple songs.

    But it was a more raw sound than what he had live for years since the 84 tour.
    I still think it was an attempt to kind of follow the trend at the time. Alot of indie and mainsteam rock was sounding rawer and less effected. Players were abandoning the whole monster rack thing in favour of a more bare bones pedal based rig. Prior to grunge, it seemed everyone was sounding very similar. They had massive racks...sometimes two.....Remember GFTPM Magazine "The Load Out" on the back page? It featured players and their rigs. I swear....Some of them looked like Nasa Mission Control! Multi staged echos/reverbs, pitchshifters/Harmonizers, Aural Exciters, signal wave oscillator modules.....When Grunge came along, most of that went away, in favour of just a guitar, a cable, an amp, and a handful of cheap pedals. Even Zakk Wylde dumped his Midi rack after it got so complicated, he as well as Ozzy just got fed up when something went wrong with it during a show.
    In a way, it was refreshing to hear a guitar with little processing again, but
    I personally thought Ed's effected tone still sounded quite good though. I've always been a fan of the Harmonizer tone Ed had, and don't apologize for it. I think if used sparingly, it gives a little more meat to the bottom end which Rounds it out. It worked well with his playing style.
    She looks so $#@!'n good ,so sexy and so frail....Somethin's got the bite on me, I'm goin' straight to Hell.

  10. #10
    Atomic Punk jimmy812's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kowski View Post
    You know, Ed switched from wireless to a really long, stiff, coaxial-feeling cord for the III tour. I bought a really long, stiff, coaxialish cable a while back, and it makes my guitar sound nasally and muffles the highs, kind of like a wah half cocked. Maybe that was part of the change in his live sound?
    He also had the cord on the '04 & '07 tours. It didn't sound as bad on the tour with Roth, but it's still not as good as it used to be (when he was wireless). Plus, the cord limits his movements on stage. It's like a leash. He needs to ditch the cord.

    And, if this new album comes to fruition, I only hope it's produced by someone who knows how to properly do it. Like someone else said, Eddie stay away from the recording/mixing console!!
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  11. #11
    Good Enough SLEEPER5150's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmy812 View Post
    He also had the cord on the '04 & '07 tours. It didn't sound as bad on the tour with Roth, but it's still not as good as it used to be (when he was wireless). Plus, the cord limits his movements on stage. It's like a leash. He needs to ditch the cord.

    And, if this new album comes to fruition, I only hope it's produced by someone who knows how to properly do it. Like someone else said, Eddie stay away from the recording/mixing console!!
    Funny eh? Back in the day, everyone used to dump on wireless because it changed the sound. Now everyones like "Ditch the cord!!!" LOl!
    I tend to agree though. That Sony Wireless he had was kick ass! It provided a little boost, and didn't kill the top end. I wish he'd go wireless again.
    I read an explanation for why he went with the cord was that with his Marshall rig, he only used a gate on the wireless feed. When the 5150 came to be, he also had to gate the effects loop of the 5150 to control the hiss there as well, so having the two gates affected volume swells, and soft picked notes too much. Not sure how true that is, but I will say I had to go through quite a few gates before I found one that worked well with the 5150. I settled on a Rocktron. Not sure what Ed uses now.....is there as much hiss on the 5150III as the Peavey?

    I know he was in negotiations with Sony back in the day to market that wireless unit. It was supposedly a one of a kind....At least that's the story in the 87' Guitar Player issue with Sammy and him.
    If he did go wireless again....it would be interesting to see what he went with. My friend is currently using the new Digital Line 6 unit. He swears by it. Wonder if Ed would be hip to the digital units.
    Last edited by SLEEPER5150; 08.19.10 at 09:48 AM.
    She looks so $#@!'n good ,so sexy and so frail....Somethin's got the bite on me, I'm goin' straight to Hell.

  12. #12
    Sinner's Swing! johnnybeane's Avatar
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    I have a wireless but haven't used it live in a few years.
    Last time i used it i jumped off the stage into the crowd.
    Had no problem getting past security to get back on stage.
    LOL!
    The guy gave me a big thumbs up.

    A buddy of mine showed me his new wireless a month ago.
    Forget the brand but it was nice and there was no delay at all!!
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    Good Enough SLEEPER5150's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnybeane View Post
    I have a wireless but haven't used it live in a few years.
    Last time i used it i jumped off the stage into the crowd.
    Had no problem getting past security to get back on stage.
    LOL!
    The guy gave me a big thumbs up.

    A buddy of mine showed me his new wireless a month ago.
    Forget the brand but it was nice and there was no delay at all!!
    I had a Nady years ago, and it did have a noticeable latency, or delay. It's a matter of milliseconds really, but it's weird how it kind of disconnects you a little, especially if you use it infrequently. Don't know if the digital ones are delay free. I imagine the sound is probably sharper.
    She looks so $#@!'n good ,so sexy and so frail....Somethin's got the bite on me, I'm goin' straight to Hell.

  14. #14
    Sinner's Swing! johnnybeane's Avatar
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    I remember the first wireless unit i had in the 90's.
    It was a Nady - one of the cheap ones and the last time i used that one was in Miami in 1998.
    The delay was so bad by that time i couldn't use it at all.

    Now i have a Sure and it's much better.

    But like i said b4 i haven't used that one really since i jumped off the stage in 2006.
    Maybe i'll try it out soon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnybeane View Post
    Eddie's live tone on the III tour sounds like he always had a Wah off stage that was half cocked.
    It's ruined (IMO) almost any live clip I've heard from that tour, per my tastes, even, as you said, when he's not actively rocking the pedal.

 

 

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