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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk
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    Default Gov't Raiding Food Stamps to Fund Bailout

    Tension builds over $12B stripped from the food stamps program to help fund the $26B state-aid bill, which has prompted Dems and advocacy groups to cringe at the notion of cutting back on one necessity to pay for another.

    House members convened Tuesday and passed the multibillion-dollar bailout bill for cash-strapped states that provides $10 billion to school districts to rehire laid-off teachers or ensure that more teachers won't be let go before the new school year begins, keeping more than 160,000 teachers on the job, the Obama administration says.

    But the bill also requires that $12 billion be stripped from the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, commonly known as food stamps, to help fund the new bill, prompting some Democrats to cringe at the notion of cutting back on one necessity to pay for another. The federal assistance program currently helps 41 million Americans.

    Arguably one of the most outspoken opponents on the Democratic side is Connecticut Rep. Rosa DeLauro, who has blasted the move as “a bitter pill to swallow” but still voted yes.

    “I fought very hard for the food assistance money in the Recovery Act, and the fact is that participation in the food stamps program has jumped dramatically with the economic crisis, from 31.1 million persons to 38.2 million just in one year,” DeLauro said in an e-mail sent to FoxNews.com. “But I know that states across the nation and my own state of Connecticut also desperately need these resources to save jobs and avoid Draconian cuts to essential services for low income families.”

    The Houston Chronicle reported Tuesday that several state advocacy groups, including the Texas Food Book Network and the Houston Food Bank, rallied for House members to strike down the legislation, which passed 247-161 in the House. Three Democrats voted against the measure, while two Republicans voted in support of it.

    Democratic rank and file members, including Sen. Majority Leader Harry Reid, say the cuts won’t take effect until 2014 and will merely return food stamp benefits to pre-stimulus levels.

    The Food Research and Action Center said a family of four would see benefits drop about $59 per month starting in 2014.

    "While we support the education initiatives (in the bill), we adamantly oppose using food stamps to pay for them," said James Weill, president of the Food Research and Action Center. "The rain on food stamps to pay for other things absolutely has to stop and stop now."

    According to U.S. Department of Agriculture figures, the number of people on the food stamp rolls has been growing to record levels for 18 straight months. Nearly $5.5 billion in aid went out to beneficiaries in May alone. The number of May recipients marked a 19 percent increase from a year ago and the USDA projects that next year's enrollment will reach about 43.4 million.

    Republicans, meanwhile, vocally opposed the state aid bill. Rep. Paul Ryan, R-Wis., told Fox News it rewarded "irresponsible states" and their unions.

    "It is basically taxpayers from fiscally (responsible) states bailing out fiscally irresponsible states. ... Medicaid funding, teacher funding, the more popular of the public unions, what this is, it's a bailout to prevent states from doing the necessary spending prioritization that they need do," he said.

    The Obama administration pushed hard for the $26 billion bill. The White House argued that it is essential to protecting 300,000 teachers and other nonfederal government workers from election-year layoffs and will not add to the national deficit.

    "If we do nothing, these educators won't be returning to the classroom this fall, and that won't just deprive them of a paycheck, it will deprive the children and parents who are counting on them to provide a decent education," Obama said in the White House Rose Garden shortly before the bill passed on Tuesday.

    "This proposal is fully paid for, in part by closing tax loopholes that encourage corporations that ships American jobs overseas. So it will not add to our deficit," he said. "And the money will only go toward saving the jobs of teachers and other essential professionals...I urge members of both parties to come together and get this done, so that I can sign this bill into law."

    The Associated Press contributed to this report.
    "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.” -- Gen. George S. Patton

  2. #2
    Baluchitherium loveevhsince79's Avatar
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    I am very supportive of our teachers and school district however, after our district struggled and had to vote three times to get a new levy passed, I'm a little pissed that the union has refused to compromise one bit on their contract. They would rather layoff teachers than have a modest copay for insurance or any type of a pay freeze. They also would rather cut teachers than administrative staff. Their options before the levy passed was to stop all extra curricular activities and busing plus have layoffs. It's almost as if they think that they should be above doing the things that are necessary right now to keep going in these economic times. Now, instead of making compromises, the feds are going to spend federal tax money to make up for these decisions. My family has had to take an 18% total pay cut to keep our respective employers afloat. Is it not logical that it's better to have an overall reduction and keep people working than to cut jobs all together and put people in the unemployment line or spend more money that we don't have to keep pay raises for those still working?
    Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we are here we might as well dance.

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  3. #3
    Atomic Punk
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    couple things pop up for me:

    1. is it really a cut of food stamps if it's simply be put back to where it was to begin with?

    2. seems like most people want to see food stamps and similar programs cut anyway.

    3. There was a comment about fiscally responsible states bailing out the irresponsible ones...Should we let states go under? what happens if say a dozen states become absolute shit holes with economies that have completely crashed, education systems in shambles etc. Is that something that should be allowed to happen? At what point do states rights and independence end and the fact that we are a nation begin?

    4. I completely agree with where loveevhsince79 is coming from.
    Stay out of it, dude.


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  4. #4
    Atomic Punk Wruff_ajax's Avatar
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    I dunno b. People need to eat. Starving people do desperate things.
    Where did you hear that most people want to do away with food stamps? A country that can't feed it's people is in for an extremely rude awakening. And with the unemployment rate arguably near or even over 20% and growing and demand for food stamps now breaking records every month I would think that cutting the program wouldn't do much for keeping civil unrest at bay in the US.


    1 - The number of Americans who are receiving food stamps rose to a new all-time record of 40.8 million in May. The number of Americans receiving food stamps has set a new all-time record for 18 months in a row. But there is every indication that things are going to get even worse. The U.S. Department of Agriculture projects that the number of Americans on food stamps will increase to 43 million in 2011.


    Meanwhile the USA will spend over $700 billion in 2010 just on the interest on our national debt.
    At this rate the U.S. will be spending $2 trillion every year just on interest on the national debt by 2020.

    Moral hazard's gone out the window as we continue borrowing from this to pay for that.

    Bailouts bailout BAILOUTS!

    Debt Commission Leaders Paint Gloomy Picture
    The heads of President Barack Obama's national debt commission Erskine Bowles and Alan Simpson painted a gloomy picture Sunday as the United States struggles to get its spending under control.
    The nation's total federal debt next year is expected to exceed $14 trillion — about $47,000 for every U.S. resident.
    "This debt is like a cancer," Bowles said in a sober presentation. "It is truly going to destroy the country from within."
    "The rest of the federal government, including fighting two wars, homeland security, education, art, culture, you name it, veterans, the whole rest of the discretionary budget, is being financed by China and other countries," said Simpson. China alone currently holds $920 billion in U.S. IOUs.
    Bowles said if the U.S. makes no changes it will be spending $2 trillion by 2020 just for interest on the national debt.
    "Just think about that: All that money, going somewhere else, to create jobs and opportunity somewhere else," he said.



    And now the Fed this week talking about another round of "Quantitative Easing" ("QE2" as it's being called), as expected, out of fear of the coming double-dip recession. (See what that talk from Bernanke did to the markets today?? Ouch)
    Borrowing another trillion from China which we'll spend on buying up yet more toxic and worthless assets.

    And yes this post is a cluster-fuck,, similar to our Government.
    _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_

  5. #5
    Atomic Punk
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wruff_ajax View Post
    I dunno b. People need to eat. Starving people do desperate things.
    Where did you hear that most people want to do away with food stamps? A country that can't feed it's people is in for an extremely rude awakening. And with the unemployment rate arguably near or even over 20% and growing and demand for food stamps now breaking records every month I would think that cutting the program wouldn't do much for keeping civil unrest at bay in the US.
    I constantly hear, both on the links and on radio call in shows, people demanding an end to government handouts, welfare and assistance and how they are a product of a nanny state that is breeding reliance upon the government and allowing people who have made bad decisions live on the hardwork and effort of others.

    Food stamps falls under this concept.

    Thus I would think some people would be in support of the cut to food stamps but perhaps unhappy with it going to another social program that many seem to be unhappy with.

    I do think there should be a welfare system of sorts, just nothing like what we have today. I also think education should be funded and managed in a completely different manner.
    Stay out of it, dude.


    I am Van Halen.

  6. #6
    carpe damn diem billy007's Avatar
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    I don't know how much abuse there is in food stamps these days - know there have been tales in the past of people buying shit they're not supposed to or trading them.

    I don't know if it would work, but they could issue them a card, would work like a debit card, and their eligible funds would go to that. That would hopefully cut out any trading of food stamp allowance for non food stamp things. Then, grocers that honour food stamps would have a system where they ring the items up, then the user would scan the card and the card would be able to tell what food stamp eligible items were being purchased and only cover that. Anything else would have to be paid for out of pocket or the items put back.

    Have a guy running for, I think governor, here and he wants to have welfare recipients take drug tests. I know that's something that's been bandied about here, don't know if any states currently do that or have proposals to do it. Anything that's a step toward accountability counts, though I'm sure the ACLU won't see it that way if it's attempted.

  7. #7
    Atomic Punk
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    "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.” -- Gen. George S. Patton

  8. #8
    Baluchitherium loveevhsince79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billy007 View Post
    I don't know how much abuse there is in food stamps these days - know there have been tales in the past of people buying shit they're not supposed to or trading them.

    I don't know if it would work, but they could issue them a card, would work like a debit card, and their eligible funds would go to that. That would hopefully cut out any trading of food stamp allowance for non food stamp things. Then, grocers that honour food stamps would have a system where they ring the items up, then the user would scan the card and the card would be able to tell what food stamp eligible items were being purchased and only cover that. Anything else would have to be paid for out of pocket or the items put back.

    Have a guy running for, I think governor, here and he wants to have welfare recipients take drug tests. I know that's something that's been bandied about here, don't know if any states currently do that or have proposals to do it. Anything that's a step toward accountability counts, though I'm sure the ACLU won't see it that way if it's attempted.
    From what I've seen at the store, they do get a credit card that is swiped at check out and it gets reloaded every month.

    It would be disgusting if one of the riches countries in the world could not feed it's poor. Take southern OH. Their economy has been decimated. There are no jobs. They were featured on Dateline a week or so ago and people are desperate and would work if there were jobs but there aren't. The problem is that there are abuses of the system, people living off the programs that were created to give people a hand up till they regroup instead of a hand out. I guess the best way to get rid of the abuse is set a time table. My problem with that is that these people have kids. Should the kids starve because of their worthless parents?
    Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we are here we might as well dance.

    Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly.

  9. #9
    Eruption Dr5115's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loveevhsince79 View Post
    There are no jobs. They were featured on Dateline a week or so ago and people are desperate and would work if there were jobs but there aren't.
    Maybe if we didn't have a Shit Load of illegal immigrants here then these folks without jobs could work!

  10. #10
    Baluchitherium loveevhsince79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr5115 View Post
    Maybe if we didn't have a Shit Load of illegal immigrants here then these folks without jobs could work!
    It's not illegal immigrants that are the problem there, it's the companies who have left or are no longer in business. It's the same in Wilmington, OH. DHL pulled out of the US as far as regular inter continental shipments go and it has basically killed the town. OH has been very hard hit and our unemployment is really high in certain areas. It's going to be extremely hard for these areas to recover.
    Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we are here we might as well dance.

    Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly.

  11. #11
    Atomic Punk
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    I'm seriously worried that I might lose my VHLINKS postings to an illegal immigrant who can do it cheaper than me...
    "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.” -- Gen. George S. Patton

  12. #12
    Gird your loins Daisy Hill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loveevhsince79 View Post
    It's not illegal immigrants that are the problem there, it's the companies who have left or are no longer in business. It's the same in Wilmington, OH. DHL pulled out of the US as far as regular inter continental shipments go and it has basically killed the town. OH has been very hard hit and our unemployment is really high in certain areas. It's going to be extremely hard for these areas to recover.
    Impossible if you think about this situation...in a NW Ohio town a plant is going to shut down causing a loss of 154 local jobs.

    The company is moving the equipment to another Ohio town (hey, at least it isn't going to Mexico) but they will only create 30 jobs there.....a net loss of 124 jobs in Ohio....and this business is applying for Ohio department of development funds to make the move!.....government grants to allow a company to shed 124 Ohio jobs ... crazy...and all these people who lost will be standing in the food bank lines and collecting benefits

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  13. #13
    Atomic Punk Wruff_ajax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by broken9500 View Post
    I constantly hear, both on the links and on radio call in shows, people demanding an end to government handouts, welfare and assistance and how they are a product of a nanny state that is breeding reliance upon the government and allowing people who have made bad decisions live on the hardwork and effort of others.

    Food stamps falls under this concept.

    Thus I would think some people would be in support of the cut to food stamps but perhaps unhappy with it going to another social program that many seem to be unhappy with.

    I do think there should be a welfare system of sorts, just nothing like what we have today. I also think education should be funded and managed in a completely different manner.
    Yeah, as it goes, we'll need these programs the most when the country can least afford it. I can think though of a thousand other government programs and agencies that should be cut before we even think about having to let our people starve.
    Sad state of affairs anyway when we're taking money from food stamps to prop up education as many states are too dumb and broke now to pay their teachers.
    There's that moral hazard again. Tax payers from more fiscally responsible states bailing out fiscally irresponsible states.

    This countries approach towards austerity will be heinous. Our government officials are too rich and corrupt to ever do the right thing. They're leading us to ruin.


    "This proposal is fully paid for, in part by closing tax loopholes that encourage corporations that ships American jobs overseas. So it will not add to our deficit," Obama said.

    lol fuck you and your speech writers Obama.
    _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_

  14. #14
    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wruff_ajax View Post

    lol fuck you and your speech writers Obama.
    Wow, dropping an F Bomb on the President.

    You might not like the guy, but you can't believe that he is not trying to do the job to the best of his abilities? Do you?

    Listen, I think G.W. Bush might be one of the dumbest/worst Presidents we have had in the last 100 years, and I'm a Republican! But I always thought he was trying to do what he thought was best, even though it usually wasn't the right move.
    Taylor Swift is nice to look at. Adele can sing.

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  15. #15
    Atomic Punk
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    Quote Originally Posted by billy007 View Post
    I don't know how much abuse there is in food stamps these days - know there have been tales in the past of people buying shit they're not supposed to or trading them.

    I don't know if it would work, but they could issue them a card, would work like a debit card, and their eligible funds would go to that. That would hopefully cut out any trading of food stamp allowance for non food stamp things. Then, grocers that honour food stamps would have a system where they ring the items up, then the user would scan the card and the card would be able to tell what food stamp eligible items were being purchased and only cover that. Anything else would have to be paid for out of pocket or the items put back.

    Have a guy running for, I think governor, here and he wants to have welfare recipients take drug tests. I know that's something that's been bandied about here, don't know if any states currently do that or have proposals to do it. Anything that's a step toward accountability counts, though I'm sure the ACLU won't see it that way if it's attempted.
    Lots of states have gone the debit card route. In Texas we've had the Lonestar card since at least the late 80s. The state pumps money into the account and the card can be used for all elligible purchases. Evidently it will tilt the machine (so to speak) if they try to buy booze or cigarettes or mcdonald's or whatever.

    The problem is, like everything else, people abuse it. Lots of gas stations have rigged it so they can take lonestar for the purchase of gas, cigarettes, lotto and anything else but people don't even need to find someone like that. Say I'm on Lonestar and you're not. I want to buy booze, cigarettes and mcdonald's. We go to the grocery store, you put your things in the basket and I use my lonestar card to buy your groceries. You then give me cash to go buy whatever I want.

    I think not too long ago there was a thread about California's welfare card. If I remember correctly it even had a pin code so people could get cash out of an ATM and use it for strippers and drugs.

    I believe in helping those who have hit rough spots...teach a man to fish and all that jazz. Though I am completely in support legalizing drugs and doing away with age restrictions on alcohol, I believe that anyone on food stamps or other government assistance programs should have to take weekly drug tests, be enrolled in some kind of vocational training or college and should have to work in whatever line of work the government assigns them and must agree to not have any more children (or any to begin with) for as long as they are on assistance , once they're back on their own two feet, they can get back to doing whatever they want.

    No system will ever be completely tamper proof and there are a whole lot of people will always try to get one over. There's not a whole lot that we can do about it. Sadly.
    Stay out of it, dude.


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