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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk
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    12.11.17 @ 04:37 PM
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    Health Care: No Vote? Just "deem and pass"...

    An obscure parliamentary maneuver favored by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) suddenly ignited Tuesday as the latest tinder in the year-long partisan strife over reshaping the nation's health-care system, triggering debate over the strategy's legitimacy and political wisdom.

    House Speaker Nancy Pilosi is going to try and pass the Health Care Reform without a vote with “Deem and Pass”. This will allow the Dems to pass this bill without even voting on the bill. What is even more incredulous “she prefers it because it would politically protect lawmakers who are reluctant to publicly support the measure.”

    Republicans condemned Pelosi's idea -- in which House members would make a final decision on broad health-care changes without voting directly on the Senate version of the bill -- as an abuse of the legislative process.

    House Minority Leader John A. Boehner (R-Ohio) called it "the ultimate in Washington power grabs." Pelosi shot back: "I didn't hear any of that ferocity when the Republicans used this, perhaps, hundreds of times."

    Off Capitol Hill, parliamentary experts of both parties said the tactic has been used with increasing frequency in recent years by Democrats and Republicans alike, usually earlier in the legislative process. And political analysts wrangled over whether the use of the "self-executing rule," also known as a "deem and pass," would further antagonize an electorate whose enthusiasm for Democrats has dimmed in the past year.

    Legal scholars disagreed about whether it would be a constitutional way to pass the legislation. Yet even critics said they doubt that the procedure would put the measure at risk of being struck down by the courts.

    "I feel pretty confident it is unconstitutional," said Michael W. McConnell, director of Stanford Law School's Constitutional Law Center and a former appellate judge appointed by President George W. Bush. "What a court would do about it is a murkier problem."

    The debate centers on a parliamentary technique that is a variant on the "rule" that the House adopts for every bill that comes to a floor vote. Rules define the ground rules for the vote, including amendments, length of the debate and other terms. Under a self-executing rule, the House essentially agrees that a vote on one measure is tantamount to, or "deemed" as, deciding on something related.

    In this instance, the self-executing rule would say that the Senate's version of health-care legislation would be deemed approved if House members adopt a set of changes to that bill. The Senate then would have to approve the changes, but the original bill could go directly to President Obama to be signed into law.

    Pelosi has said the process would make it easier to secure the votes needed to push health-care changes across the legislative finish line. At a time when relations within Congress are frayed, it would enable House Democrats not to be on record directly as supporting the Senate measure. House Republicans are unified against the bill.

    Although the speaker has embraced the idea, a decision on whether to use a self-executing rule will not be made until the House Rules Committee convenes later this week, probably on Thursday.

    Republicans sought to block Democrats' path. Rep. Parker Griffith (R-Ala.), who switched political parties in December, plans to introduce a resolution that would compel the Democrats to conduct a regular vote. Outside the Capitol, hundreds of conservative activists affiliated with the "tea party" movement gathered to protest the health-care legislation. They seized on the parliamentary method, with demonstrators shouting "treason."

    At the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue, White House press secretary Robert Gibbs sidestepped the question of whether Obama supports the "deeming" approach. The president called on Congress last week to move forward with an "up-or-down vote" to redesign the health-care system. Gibbs told reporters Tuesday: "You're going to know where people are on health-care reform, and where they are on the president's proposal on health-care reform."

    Close watchers of the debate were divided about whether the parliamentary strategy would influence public sentiment about the legislation -- or its Democratic supporters.

    Robert L. Laszewski, a consultant who follows the politics of health care, predicted that the effect would be negligible, because Americans' views on the subject have solidified. Democrats "are pushing through Obamacare," he said. "You either like it or not. . . . There's not a lot of subtlety. Either people really want this to happen, or they think it's incredible arrogance. I don't think there's anybody in the middle on this."

    On the other hand, Stuart Rothenberg, a nonpartisan political analyst, said the current stage of the debate is a rare instance in which the public is focused on the process of legislating. "Voters are aware it's been pulling teeth," he said, adding that some Americans think Congress's Democratic leaders had "to give away the store to get even Democrats to pass it" and, more recently, resorted to a "reconciliation" procedure that requires fewer Senate votes to pass.

    "From there, we've leapt to a totally different planet with this deeming," Rothenberg said. "I feel like I've fallen through the rabbit hole: 'Oh, they are going to not pass the bill and just pretend they passed the bill.' "

    Parliamentary specialists said there is ample precedent for self-executing rules. Thomas Mann of the Brookings Institution said congressional leaders of both parties are using the procedure more frequently, with 36 instances under the last Republican-led House, in 2005-06, and 49 during the immediate past session, when Democrats were in control.

    Donald Wolfensberger, a former Republican staff director of the House Rules Committee who now directs the Congress Project at the Woodrow Wilson Center for Scholars, said this use of such a rule would be unusual, though not unprecedented, because it would send part of what the House would be voting on -- the bill already approved by the Senate -- directly to the president.

    Wolfensberger said self-executing rules often have been employed at an earlier stage, rather than for final passage of a bill. He said he knows of four instances when a measure that was deemed to have been passed went directly to the White House. The first, in 1933 during the Great Depression, involved Senate amendments to legislation pertaining to the United States' creditworthiness. The tactic was employed twice in the 1990s, by Democrats on a bill involving the Family Medical Leave Act, and by Republicans on a measure involving a line-item veto. Most recently, it was used a few weeks ago, when the House voted on both an increase in the debt ceiling and a pay-as-you-go budget provision.

    Stanford's McConnell said that such a procedure would be unconstitutional in this case because, in passing both the Senate legislation and the changes in the reconciliation package in a single stroke, "no one bill will then have been passed by both the House and the Senate" because the Senate still would have to approve the changes added by the House.

    Charles Tiefer, a University of Baltimore law professor who is a former Democratic House counsel and has written extensively about House procedure, disagreed, saying: "This is so familiar a House procedure. . . . I don't know anything in the Constitution that prevents the House from holding one vote for two bills. . . . Why would it make a difference?"

    Staff writers Paul Kane, Lori Montgomery, Sandhya Somashekhar and Michael D. Shear contributed to this report.
    "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.Ē -- Gen. George S. Patton

  2. #2
    Good Enough pal1800's Avatar
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    06.02.16 @ 09:13 AM
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    The majority of the people want health care reform, the majority just doesn't want it with this paticular bill. What does Pelosi not understand and why are the Democrats hell bent on doing it this way and this way only? I thought they were the party of the PEOPLE.

  3. #3
    Atomic Punk Wruff_ajax's Avatar
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    12.14.17 @ 04:41 PM
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    "Slaughter Solution"

    Pelosi: "I like it, because people don't need to vote on the senate bill."

    Coward democrats. Scared to be held accountable for their own vote, so they're gonna pass it without even voting on it.



    Fuck you Obama you pathetic excuse for a president, and your desperate bitch Pelosi, and the rest of them too.
    _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_

  4. #4
    Baluchitherium
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    12.11.17 @ 09:44 PM
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    I for one want nothing to do with socialized health care. That Pelosi bitch needs a good fucking beating upside the head.
    "Alcoholism, is like, the only disease you can get yelled at for having" - Mitch
    Hedberg

  5. #5
    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
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    12.14.17 @ 10:37 AM
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    From reading on this, it is my understanding is that this can get a bill based, but that it cannot become law, so why waste the time?

    It is my understanding, and I am sure someone can correct me if I am wrong, that for a bill to become law it has to be voted on and passed by both houses and then signed by the President.

    The way they are doing it now is that they have a Senate bill that passed by a vote, a House bill passed by "deeming", and no bill that has been voted on and passed by both houses.

    I think this is where the un-Constitutionality of the Line Item Veto came to pass.
    Taylor Swift is nice to look at. Adele can sing.

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  6. #6
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    Stay out of it, dude.


    I am Van Halen.

  7. #7
    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
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    12.14.17 @ 10:37 AM
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    Loved School House Rock.
    Taylor Swift is nice to look at. Adele can sing.

    Emperor Brett - "I can't believe you guys are analyzing song-by-song Van Halen III? What next, analyzing the script of Stroker Ace looking for some shred of Citizen Kane?"

    David Lee Roth did the impossible. He made Van Halen better. Deal with it!

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  8. #8
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    08.31.15 @ 02:01 PM
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    ĎSchoolhouse Barackí

    ĎSchoolhouse Barackí



    Remember Schoolhouse Rock, that civic-minded Saturday morning cartoon short from the 1970s? Itís time to update it for the Obama Era.

    ĒIím Just a LawĒ

    LAW (singing): Iím just a law, yes Iím only a law,
    And I donít know why they passed me at all.
    Cause ó no ó one ó knows what is in me
    No oneís read a darn word,
    I was typed up last night
    By a 20-year-old nerd,
    But Pelosi twisted elbows all day.
    How I hoped and prayed they would stall
    But today, all in all, Iím a law.

    BOY: Hello, Law, why so glum?

    LAW: Iím two thousand pages long and no oneís even read me yet.

    BOY: Then how did they pass you?

    LAW: The Democrats used something called reconciliation.

    BOY: Recon-what?

    LAW: It means they can write any bill and pass it whenever they want. Itís against the rules.

    BOY: That doesnít sound very democratic.

    LAW: Actually, it is! In a pure democracy, the majority rules.

    BOY: But I thought we lived in a republic!

    LAW: Me too, kid. Me too.

    (singing) Iím just a law, yes Iím only a law,
    And they donít know what is in me at all.
    Do ó I ó ban ó incandescent light bulbs? Do I tax gasoline?
    End health care as we know it, if you know what I mean?
    Or maybe I just spend lots of dough,
    Hey, youíll never know, itís too late
    Because Nancy and Harry sealed your fate.

    NANCY PELOSI: Hello, Law.

    HARRY REID: Ready to reform health care?

    BOY: Didnít Congress already pass health care reform?

    LAW: They did. But since the American people turned against it, theyíre scared to bring the old bill up for a final vote.

    PELOSI: Iím not scared. Thatís just my eyebrows.

    LAW (singing): Iíll be spreading the wealth, spending trillions on health,
    Iím a single-payer system by stealth,
    But ó the ó Republicans canít stop me, even with Scotty Brown.
    Obama said heíll never let them vote my ass down.
    Iím as popular as powdered anthrax,
    Hey, they donít mind the attacks,
    ĎCause Iím one more excuse just to tax.

    BOY: Look, itís President Obama!

    PRESIDENT OBAMA: Hello, Law. Pleased to meet you.

    LAW: Wha ó what are you gonna do with that pen?

    OBAMA: Why, sign you, of course. Donít worry, it wonít hurt ó at first.

    LAW: Oh, no!

    PELOSI AND REID: Oh, yeah!

    ###

    ďKill the Golden GooseĒ

    BOY: Hey, Barry!

    GIRL: What are you doing?

    PRESIDENT OBAMA: Iím making dinner for all of us! How would you like roast goose?

    BOY: Mmmm!

    GIRL: But where will we get it?

    OBAMA: Look!

    (He points to a golden goose in the distance).

    OBAMA (singing): Letís go kill the Golden Goose
    It means more food for me and you,
    Kill the Golden Goose today,
    Before she runs away!

    OBAMA: Look at those breasts and thighs and legs!

    GIRL: But doesnít she lay golden eggs?

    OBAMA (singing): Yes, but you donít understand.
    There are hungry folks throughout the land!
    They need the food, donít make them beg!
    Itís better than a dumb old egg.

    BOY: I thought the eggs helped mom and dad.

    OBAMA: Listen, my naive young lad. The goose was put on this earth to help people. If she just lays golden eggs, the only person she ever helps is her owner! But if we kill her, we can serve ALL Americans, not just the wealthy few.

    (singing) What good is a lump of gold
    When youíre starving, shivering in the cold?

    So letís go kill the Golden Goose
    It means more food for me and you
    Kill the Golden Goose today,
    Before she runs away!

    BOY: How did the goose get so fat?

    OBAMA: Let me tell you a story. Long before you were born, a man named Ronald Reagan decided to feed the goose instead of the people. He wanted it to lay more eggs for its owners. He called it ďtrickle-down.Ē

    BOY: Thatís greedy.

    GIRL: And unfair!

    OBAMA: But we put a stop to that. Before we got here, geese ran wild. Now theyíre regulated Ė

    BOY: ó like a child!

    GIRL: Wait a minute ó has PETA heard?

    OBAMA: Yes, they canít wait to axe THIS bird!

    (singing) So letís go kill the Golden Goose
    It means more food for me and you
    Kill the Golden Goose today,
    Before she runs ó uh oh!

    (Taxpayers holding pitchforks appear).

    TAXPAYER 1: All right, Barry, let her be.

    TAXPAYER 2: Itís not your bird, itís owned by me.

    TAXPAYER 3: Without this goose, weíd all be poor.

    OBAMA (shaking his fist): Next time your goose is cooked, for sure!

  9. #9
    Sinner's Swing! Jesus H Christ's Avatar
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    12.14.17 @ 01:21 AM
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    Obama Tells Fox News 'Procedural' Spat Over Health Bill Vote Doesn't Worry Him

    President Obama is not worried about the "procedural" debate over whether House Democratic leaders should go ahead with a plan to approve health care reform without a traditional vote, he told Fox News on Wednesday.

    President Obama is not worried about the "procedural" debate over whether House Democratic leaders should go ahead with a plan to approve health care reform without a traditional vote, he told Fox News on Wednesday.

    The president, in an interview with Fox News' Bret Baier, was responding for the first time to the controversy over a plan to use a parliamentary trick to allow the House to pass the Senate's health care bill without forcing members to vote for it directly. The esoteric procedure has drawn fierce protest from Republicans who say Democrats are trying to avoid accountability, but the president said there will be no doubt about where lawmakers stand on health care reform.

    "I don't spend a lot of time worrying about what the procedural rules are in the House or Senate," Obama said. "What I can tell you is that the vote that's taken in the House will be a vote for health care reform. And if people vote yes, whatever form that takes, that is going to be a vote for health care reform. And I don't think we should pretend otherwise. And if they don't, if they vote against it, then they're going to be voting against health care reform and they're going to be voting in favor of the status quo.

    "So Washington gets very concerned with these procedures in Congress, whether Republicans are in charge or Democrats are in charge," he said.

    Indeed, House lawmakers would be going on record for health care reform. But they wouldn't be casting a vote for the Senate bill alone.

    Instead, under a process called a "self-executing rule," the House could simultaneously approve the Senate bill while voting on a package of changes to it. This would "deem" the Senate bill to be passed, without compelling members to vote for it directly.

    Democratic leaders are considering the option because many House Democrats don't want to cast a vote in favor of the unaltered Senate bill, which they oppose for numerous reasons. But the House must pass the Senate bill in order to move on to the package of changes intended to correct all the things about it that they don't like.

    The tactic would allow members to temporarily accept the Senate version while keeping it at arm's length.

    Obama brushed off concerns about the special deals that helped get the Senate bill passed.

    "By the time the vote has taken place, not only I will know what's in it, you'll know what's in it because it's going to be posted and everybody's going to be able to evaluate it on the merits," he said.

    Obama said the the debate over the deals "ends up being a little frustrating is because the focus entirely is on Washington process."

    "And yes, I have said that this is an ugly process," he said. "It was ugly when Republicans were in charge. It was ugly when Democrats were in charge."
    "The less I needed, the better I felt." ~ Charles Bukowski.

  10. #10
    Hang 'Em High RRMB's Avatar
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    05.21.17 @ 06:42 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wruff_ajax View Post
    Fuck you Obama you pathetic excuse for a president, and your desperate bitch Pelosi, and the rest of them too.
    I'm not jazzed at how my vote has been screwed with. If the election were held today, Obama is gone. But you need to relax bro. The anger you carry will rot you from the inside out. Grab a beer, a shot and relax.

    Quote Originally Posted by shamalama View Post
    I for one want nothing to do with socialized health care. That Pelosi bitch needs a good fucking beating upside the head.
    You gotta be careful what you post there, my friend. That can be construed as a threat and get you in to some seriously hot water. Grab a beer and chill, my friend.
    "Jesus, that fucker just crawled out of his hen house that was destroyed by the Alabama tornados. Fucking 280mph plus winds sucked the gleam off this bitch and passed it on to a bird in Rhoad Island." - Hurricane Halen 5/3/11 (about my birthday chicken from seenbad)

    "Pete is this big, loud muthafucker with a big ass heart, y'all!!!!---------" - Hurricane Halen 9/27/13

    "Princess Freckle-Tits hasn't had a good day." LLFHS 7/8/10 (on Lindsay Lohans' legal drama)


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  11. #11
    Atomic Punk Wruff_ajax's Avatar
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    12.14.17 @ 04:41 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redrockinmonkeyboy View Post
    I'm not jazzed at how my vote has been screwed with. If the election were held today, Obama is gone. But you need to relax bro. The anger you carry will rot you from the inside out. Grab a beer, a shot and relax.





    I can't monkey.

    None of us can afford to relax.

    Look where that's gotten us already. And maybe it's already too late.

    The worse things get the quicker people are to surrender their rights and liberties for greater government control, or so-called "security". Falling right in line when they should be protesting this deconstruction of our constitution before our very eyes. People are generally just too stupid and too drunk on a lifetime of bullshit to know any better.

    Unfortunately so many people listen to everything they're told by those in the pulpit. Unwilling to educate themselves. Obama, Pelosi, and company are obviously counting on it. So have another beer. Relax. Obey.

    Someone close told me recently while talking politics... "You need to just go with the flow.. bro".

    Fuck that.
    _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_

  12. #12
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    12.14.17 @ 04:59 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wruff_ajax View Post
    Pelosi: "I like it, because people don't need to vote on the senate bill."

    Coward democrats. Scared to be held accountable for their own vote, so they're gonna pass it without even voting on it.



    Fuck you Obama you pathetic excuse for a president, and your desperate bitch Pelosi, and the rest of them too.
    damn, that's pretty pathetic. If you can't defend your own beliefs then you shouldn't be in politics.

  13. #13
    Hang 'Em High RRMB's Avatar
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    05.21.17 @ 06:42 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wruff_ajax View Post




    I can't monkey.

    None of us can afford to relax.

    Look where that's gotten us already. And maybe it's already too late.

    The worse things get the quicker people are to surrender their rights and liberties for greater government control, or so-called "security". Falling right in line when they should be protesting this deconstruction of our constitution before our very eyes. People are generally just too stupid and too drunk on a lifetime of bullshit to know any better.

    Unfortunately so many people listen to everything they're told by those in the pulpit. Unwilling to educate themselves. Obama, Pelosi, and company are obviously counting on it. So have another beer. Relax. Obey.

    Someone close told me recently while talking politics... "You need to just go with the flow.. bro".

    Fuck that.
    I'm not saying lose the passion. But don't blow out the back of your heart wall, my friend. LOL...
    "Jesus, that fucker just crawled out of his hen house that was destroyed by the Alabama tornados. Fucking 280mph plus winds sucked the gleam off this bitch and passed it on to a bird in Rhoad Island." - Hurricane Halen 5/3/11 (about my birthday chicken from seenbad)

    "Pete is this big, loud muthafucker with a big ass heart, y'all!!!!---------" - Hurricane Halen 9/27/13

    "Princess Freckle-Tits hasn't had a good day." LLFHS 7/8/10 (on Lindsay Lohans' legal drama)


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  14. #14
    Sinner's Swing!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ View Post
    "I don't spend a lot of time worrying about what the procedural rules are in the House or Senate," Obama said.
    great.

    don't get mixed up in minor details, this coming from a former Senator mind you.

    I'm fucking speechless.

    Seriously, I don't care whether your left, right, middle, upside down, sideways, or ass-backwards...........can anybody explain WTF IS GOING ON?!?!?!!?

  15. #15
    Hang 'Em High Hurricane Halen's Avatar
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    12.14.17 @ 11:51 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wruff_ajax View Post




    I can't monkey.

    None of us can afford to relax.

    Look where that's gotten us already. And maybe it's already too late.

    The worse things get the quicker people are to surrender their rights and liberties for greater government control, or so-called "security". Falling right in line when they should be protesting this deconstruction of our constitution before our very eyes. People are generally just too stupid and too drunk on a lifetime of bullshit to know any better.

    Unfortunately so many people listen to everything they're told by those in the pulpit. Unwilling to educate themselves. Obama, Pelosi, and company are obviously counting on it. So have another beer. Relax. Obey.

    Someone close told me recently while talking politics... "You need to just go with the flow.. bro".

    Fuck that.


    Pretty much simple and to the point.

    I hope people really wake up and take the blinders off. The obvious is right in front of our noses, yet some still can't see it.

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