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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk
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    Default Barred from receiving communion because of one's support of abortion rights...

    PROVIDENCE, R.I. - Roman Catholic Bishop Thomas Tobin has banned Rep. Patrick Kennedy from receiving Communion, the central sacrament of the church, in Rhode Island because of the congressman's support for abortion rights, Kennedy said in a newspaper interview published Sunday.

    The decision by the outspoken prelate, reported on The Providence Journal's Web site, significantly escalates a bitter dispute between Tobin, an ultra orthodox bishop, and Kennedy, a son of the nation's most famous Roman Catholic family.

    "The bishop instructed me not to take Communion and said that he has instructed the diocesan priests not to give me Communion," Kennedy told the paper in an interview conducted Friday.

    Kennedy said the bishop had explained the penalty by telling him "that I am not a good practicing Catholic because of the positions that I've taken as a public official," particularly on abortion.

    He declined to say when or how Tobin told him not to take the sacrament. And he declined to say whether he has obeyed the bishop's injunction.

    The paper said the bishop's spokesman declined to address the question of whether he had told Kennedy not to receive Communion. But the bishop's office cast doubt on Kennedy's related assertion about instructions to state priests.

    "Bishop Tobin has never addressed matters relative to public officials receiving Holy Communion with pastors of the diocese," spokesman Michael K. Guilfoyle told the paper in an e-mailed statement.

    Church law permits Tobin to ban Kennedy from receiving Communion within the Diocese of Providence, which covers Rhode Island, but he cannot stop Kennedy from receiving Communion elsewhere. It was unclear whether bishops overseeing Washington and Massachusetts, where Kennedy's family has seaside compound, would issue similar bans.

    Kennedy could appeal the decision to officials in the Vatican, but the hierarchy of the Catholic church is unlikely to overturn a bishop, said Michael Sean Winters, a church observer and author of "Left At the Altar: How Democrats Lost The Catholics And How Catholics Can Save The Democrats."

    "It's really bad theology," said Winters, who opposes abortion. "You're turning the altar rail into a battle field, a political battlefield no less, and it does a disservice to the Eucharist."

    The dispute between the two men began in October when Kennedy in an interview on CNSNews.com criticized the nation's Catholic bishops for threatening to oppose a massive expansion of the nation's health care system unless it included tighter restrictions on federally funded abortion.

    Kennedy voted against an amendment to a Democratic health care plan sought by the bishops. But he voted in favor of a health care plan that included the amendment he opposed.

    Tobin, the spiritual leader of the nation's most heavily Roman Catholic state, demanded an apology from Kennedy after learning of his remarks and requested a meeting.

    "While I greatly respect the Catholic Church and its leaders, like many Rhode Islanders, the fact that I disagree with the hierarchy of the church on some issues does not make me any less of a Catholic," Kennedy wrote in a letter to Tobin, agreeing to a sitdown. "I embrace my faith which acknowledges the existence of an imperfect humanity."

    Their meeting fell apart. While Tobin called it a mutual decision, Kennedy accused Tobin of failing to abide by an agreement to stop discussing the congressman's faith publicly.

    Tobin followed up with a biting public letter published in a diocesan newspaper.

    "Sorry, you can't chalk it up to an 'imperfect humanity.' Your position is unacceptable to the Church and scandalous to many of our members. It absolutely diminishes your Communion with the Church," Tobin wrote.

    In subsequent interviews, Tobin said Kennedy should not receive Communion like other Catholic politicians who support abortion rights. Still, the bishop stopped short of ordering Kennedy not to receive the sacrament.
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  2. #2
    Atomic Punk stilleddiesangel's Avatar
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    "While I greatly respect the Catholic Church and its leaders, like many Rhode Islanders, the fact that I disagree with the hierarchy of the church on some issues does not make me any less of a Catholic," Kennedy wrote in a letter to Tobin, agreeing to a sitdown. "I embrace my faith which acknowledges the existence of an imperfect humanity."
    As much as I disgree with a lot of what the catholic church says and does sometimes, this above is bullshit.

    Abortion is one issue the church will never ever back down on, and expect it's members to follow, is their stand on abortion. If you cant do that, find another church.
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  3. #3
    Atomic Punk ziggysmalls's Avatar
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    12.16.17 @ 08:21 AM
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    I am not a Christian and support abortion rights but I don't have an issue with this. It's their church, their rules and he is breaking them. This comes with the territory of him being a public figure.

  4. #4
    Gird your loins Daisy Hill's Avatar
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    12.16.17 @ 07:41 PM
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    he's not barred because of his beliefs in abortion, he's barred because as a public official he's had to make those beliefs known

    My experience with the Catholic church is that if you keep your trap shut you can pretty much do anything and receive (or even give) communion

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  5. #5
    Atomic Punk LLFHS's Avatar
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  6. #6
    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
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    12.16.17 @ 06:36 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by stilleddiesangel View Post
    As much as I disgree with a lot of what the catholic church says and does sometimes, this above is bullshit.

    Abortion is one issue the church will never ever back down on, and expect it's members to follow, is their stand on abortion. If you cant do that, find another church.
    I agree.

    I don't like much about the Catholic Church, but it's their church, if you don't like their rules find another church, don't whine about it to the press.
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  7. #7
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    Its possible to have a personal belief that something is wrong, but not be in favor of taking legal action against it. For example I think adultary is wrong, but if I were in the senate and a bill was introduced to make adultary a felony, I probably wouldn't support it. I think the church should find out if he is personaly feels abortion is moraly acceptable, or if he just doesn't feel like it should be illeagal. In the end though I agree with what others have said that if a church decides someone isn't living up to their standards and takes action against them, that's their decision to make.

    As a side note. I think its funny how when people want to make something immoral sound more acceptable they attach the word "rights" to it.

  8. #8
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    12.16.17 @ 08:01 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcbain View Post
    Its possible to have a personal belief that something is wrong, but not be in favor of taking legal action against it. For example I think adultary is wrong, but if I were in the senate and a bill was introduced to make adultary a felony, I probably wouldn't support it. I think the church should find out if he is personaly feels abortion is moraly acceptable, or if he just doesn't feel like it should be illeagal. In the end though I agree with what others have said that if a church decides someone isn't living up to their standards and takes action against them, that's their decision to make.

    As a side note. I think its funny how when people want to make something immoral sound more acceptable they attach the word "rights" to it.

    you don't see the a rather large difference between adultery and abortion?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    you don't see the a rather large difference between adultery and abortion?
    Maybe a poor example, but the point is just because you wouldn't be in favor of outlawing something doesn't mean you think it's right.

  10. #10
    Atomic Punk chefcraig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcbain View Post
    As a side note. I think its funny how when people want to make something immoral sound more acceptable they attach the word "rights" to it.
    Just out of curiosity, aside from "Abortion Rights", could you name a few more examples of your so-called "immoral rights"?
    "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
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  11. #11
    Top Of The World
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    Quote Originally Posted by chefcraig View Post
    Just out of curiosity, aside from "Abortion Rights", could you name a few more examples of your so-called "immoral rights"?
    I guess the other one that comes to mind is the "right" to have your same sex marriage recognised by the state. Just seems people try to paint their opposition in a bad light by caiming they have a "right" to the action they want to engage in. "I have a right to abort me unborn child" or "I have a right to live with someone of the same sex and have it be called a marriage". Just seems people are trying to call what ever they're in favor of doing a right.

  12. #12
    Atomic Punk chefcraig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcbain View Post
    I guess the other one that comes to mind is the "right" to have your same sex marriage recognised by the state. Just seems people try to paint their opposition in a bad light by caiming they have a "right" to the action they want to engage in. "I have a right to abort me unborn child" or "I have a right to live with someone of the same sex and have it be called a marriage". Just seems people are trying to call what ever they're in favor of doing a right.
    The thing is, if abortions or same sex marriages are legal in a particular state, people in those states do have a right to them, however immoral they may be considered by observers. How the state goes about allowing where these things can take place is another matter, however.
    "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
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  13. #13
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcbain View Post
    Maybe a poor example, but the point is just because you wouldn't be in favor of outlawing something doesn't mean you think it's right.

    and i think in most cases that the church would look the other way on these types of things. I'm sure that the church isn't a big fan of many things that government does and understands that sometimes that a representative will have to do things that will not completely jive with the teachings of the church. I just think that abortion (aka murder of a small child) might be somewhere they make a stand. Seems pretty reasonable to me.

  14. #14
    Good Enough
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    Quote Originally Posted by voivod View Post
    [B]
    "Sorry, you can't chalk it up to an 'imperfect humanity.' Your position is unacceptable to the Church and scandalous to many of our members. It absolutely diminishes your Communion with the Church," Tobin wrote.
    They left out the rest of the quote,"Now, if you'll excuse me I have some children to molest". Unlike abortion that's perfectly acceptable...
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  15. #15
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otis5150 View Post
    They left out the rest of the quote,"Now, if you'll excuse me I have some children to molest". Unlike abortion that's perfectly acceptable...
    yes, all Catholics think molesting a child is accectable. Don't confuse the deeds of some with the thoughts of many.

 

 

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