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  1. #1
    Hang 'Em High Reckless Fable's Avatar
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    Default Gibson Guitar plant in Nashville raided by feds

    http://www.tennessean.com/article/20...raided+by+feds

    "An international crackdown on the use of endangered woods from the world's rain forests to make musical instruments bubbled over to Music City on Tuesday with a federal raid on Gibson Guitar 's manufacturing plant, but no arrests....

    ...Federal officials declined to say whether anything was removed from Gibson's plant or what specifically the agents were trying to find. But some exotic hardwoods traditionally used in making premium guitars, such as rosewood from the rain forests of Madagascar and Brazil, have been banned from commercial trade because of environmental concerns under a recently revised federal law."

    Doesn't really sound like there is much there other than a bunch of bureaucrats firing a warning shot at the industry.

  2. #2
    Romeo Delight sbrening's Avatar
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    One of many bad things to come from such a liberal party in power....

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbrening View Post
    One of many bad things to come from such a liberal party in power....
    Lame comment.

  4. #4
    5150 bunnyman's Avatar
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    11.06.14 @ 04:06 AM
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    I think as long as it's old Brazillian rosewood, it's okay to use it. But who's to know what's old and what's new?

    Interesting...
    Dammit!!! I still smell like cotton candy!!!

  5. #5
    Eruption cav's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbrening View Post
    One of many bad things to come from such a liberal party in power....
    I want mother earth to be here for eternity. Hence, I'm ok with stopping
    de-forestation. I can live without exotic woods....

  6. #6
    Romeo Delight
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbrening View Post
    One of many bad things to come from such a liberal party in power....
    Exactly!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbrening View Post
    One of many bad things to come from such a liberal party in power....
    what on earth does it have to do with anything"!

  8. #8
    Eruption LeftyVanHalen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbrening View Post
    One of many bad things to come from such a liberal party in power....
    Oh yeah...Obama is really focusing on rare woods. What a lame ass comment

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeftyVanHalen View Post
    Oh yeah...Obama is really focusing on rare woods. What a lame ass comment
    With a wife like his..i think he's more worried of running around with "wood" all the time..

  10. #10
    Eruption
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    There is only 1 ...and I repeat One source within the United states that is allowed to sell certified Brazilian rosewood. Brazil has designated this 1 source so they can regulate what is coming and going. First off they should have been replanting as they go. It is my best guess as usual they were not replanting, just taking. Not the consumers fault. Foresting is not the problem. NOT replanting for future stock is a problem. Logging should be done in stages. That is what is done in here in the northwest. They are going through this with Koa wood now in Hawaii , because they used to cut at will back in the day with no eye on the future. That was just flat out stupid. Now it is expensive and limited until there is new growth. The problem with some of these third world countried is that they have not had the resources, education, motivation, and other factors to do it the right way. now it is becoming an issue. This is the problem that the goverment created. How do you know what people already had stock they already bought before the change over. Now some people in the guitar industry are getting snobby about what is acceptable to buy and use just because it is a politically correct bandwagon to jump on. Most of them are hypocritical liars. Some wood will have certificates and some won't. Classic goverment intervention screw up with no real plan. They should have devised a better way then just one source. It will drive prices up and create a black market. The other woods you don't need a certificate for when reselling.

  11. #11
    Good Enough SLEEPER5150's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by al3d View Post
    what on earth does it have to do with anything"!
    I think he's referring to the Liberal/Democrats openness to the environmental lobby, but that's misguided. It goes way deeper than that.
    We live in a global economy now. That's done more damage to the forestry industry, and the quickly vanishing resource supply around the world than anything else. Take Canada for example. We ship mass quantities of our raw logs formerly processed in Canada(which includes Canadian Rock Maple) anywhere in the world that has the cheapest manufacturing/processing costs for market ready production, then bring them back, and sell it for huge profit., often with less quality in the finished product. This has spurred a huge black market for rare exotic, as well as protected domestic woods. We have a tree farm at a university, and it has beautiful maple. There has been a huge rash of poachers going in and cutting these trees for the valuable AAAA flame maple to sell to what investigators claimed were guitar companies. This actually became a Canadian Federal matter, as not only are these trees extremely rare, their also our national symbol.

    This diminishing of domestic industry happened in Georgia too. Big forestry companies basically bought up smaller producers, and bypassed the traditional sawmill in favour of shipping overseas for mass production on the cheap, then having it shipped back and sold for huge profit. Where I live, in British Columbia, Forestry was pretty much our biggest industry. Our main lumber company, MacMillan-Bloedel was sold off to a large multinational forestry company, and aside from the cutting, and logbooming, everything was outsourced.

    I live 3 blocks from the Fraser River; the backbone of forestry in these parts. The entire north coastline of the Fraser had an enourmous amount of sawmills, and finish mills. Within ten years, Now there are only 3, and two of those are in bankruptcy protection. This is going on all over the world.
    That said, even though I understand that Lib's/Dems and environmentalist groups go hand in hand, the real problem is globalization. As long as corporations, and governments sidestep domestic manufacturing, in favour of producing products for cents on the dollar, overseas, this will continue. I'm all for making a buck, but not at the expense of my fellow Canadian or American.
    Last edited by SLEEPER5150; 11.19.09 at 08:31 AM.
    She looks so $#@!'n good ,so sexy and so frail....Somethin's got the bite on me, I'm goin' straight to Hell.

  12. #12
    Romeo Delight
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbrening View Post
    One of many bad things to come from such a liberal party in power....
    democratic administration = liberal bias = big govt = al gore = man is cancer on this earth = infringe upon civil rights = big brother = feds raiding guitar plant

    i hope none of you musicians have any "illegal" substances at your house when they come looking for illegal rose wood fretboards.

    got nothing agains obama, he's a swell guy, but so was L.B.J. and he is what got us started down this "welfare state" mess we are in.

  13. #13
    Eruption
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLEEPER5150 View Post
    I think he's referring to the Liberal/Democrats openness to the environmental lobby, but it goes way deeper than that.
    We live in a global economy now. That's done more damage to the forestry industry, and the quickly vanishing resource supply around the world than anything else. Take Canada for example. We ship mass quantities of our raw logs (which includes Canadian Rock Maple) anywhere in the world that has the cheapest manufacturing/processing costs for market ready production, then bring them back, and sell it for huge profit.
    This happened in Georgia too. Big forestry companies basically bought up smaller producers, and bypassed the traditional sawmill in favour of shipping overseas for mass production on the cheap, then having it shipped back and sold for huge profit. Where I live, in British Columbia, Forestry was pretty much our biggest industry. Our main lumber company, MacMillan-Bloedel was sold off to a large multinational forestry company, and aside from the cutting, and logbooming, everything was outsourced.

    I live 3 blocks from the Fraser River; the backbone of forestry in these parts. The entire north coastline of the Fraser had an enourmous amount of sawmills, and finish mills. Within ten years, Now there are only 3, and two of those are in bankruptcy protection. This is going on all over the world.
    That said, even though I understand that Lib's/Dems and environmentalist groups go hand in hand, the real problem is globalization. As long as corporations, and governments sidestep domestic manufacturing, in favour of producing products for cents on the dollar, overseas, this will continue. I'm all for making a buck, but not at the expense of my fellow Canadian or American.
    This was well said. This is why I have been on these forums encouraging people to STOP buying cheap guitars, Korean, China, etc.......even the new AX40 by ernie ball. They just hoar out our good lumber for the quik buck !! Globalization is causing a lot of problems. Ask yourself why so many people can't find an average job anymore !!! This causes damaging results in the long run. There is no reason why people can not slow down and save up for a higher quality instrument. It is about using our resources more wisely and at a slower pace. A good example is as long as people are running to the store or internet and buying low grade guitars using fancy venneers, the Koreans will keep coming over here buying up our good wood just to put on sub par guitars. Feeding the Young stupid American that has been sucked into the marketing Vacuum. The AX 40 is a perfect example. Sterling ball should have never jumped on that bandwagon. Shame on him big time !! Like that guy does not have enough money he has to get into that market. He knows that he can make a killing and quickly. So this is my mesage....STOP buying cheap guitars !!!!!! Thanks for your cooperation

  14. #14
    Good Enough SLEEPER5150's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottfletcher View Post
    This was well said. This is why I have been on these forums encouraging people to STOP buying cheap guitars, Korean, China, etc.......even the new AX40 by ernie ball. They just hoar out our good lumber for the quik buck !! Globalization is causing a lot of problems. Ask yourself why so many people can't find an average job anymore !!! This causes damaging results in the long run. There is no reason why people can not slow down and save up for a higher quality instrument. It is about using our resources more wisely and at a slower pace. A good example is as long as people are running to the store or internet and buying low grade guitars using fancy venneers, the Koreans will keep coming over here buying up our good wood just to put on sub par guitars. Feeding the Young stupid American that has been sucked into the marketing Vacuum. The AX 40 is a perfect example. Sterling ball should have never jumped on that bandwagon. Shame on him big time !! Like that guy does not have enough money he has to get into that market. He knows that he can make a killing and quickly. So this is my mesage....STOP buying cheap guitars !!!!!! Thanks for your cooperation
    I was watching Dateline I think it was, a few months back, and they were saying essentially the same thing about the textile industry; the Hanes company in particular. Apparently they were the last large clothing company whos manufacturing was firmly based in the US. I'm not sure how it happened, but apparently they hired an consultant firm and employees were notified of "corporate restructuring" but they decided to pack up and outsource to Singapore (I think it was there.....please correct if wrong.) with little to no notice. There were people there who worked for thirty years, just about to retire, and they slimely canned them in such a way that that they could'nt claim their pensions. So not only did they kick loyal employees to the ground, they pissed all over them too. All for the promise of huge profit. When you think about it too deeply, it just makes you sick. What a world!
    Last edited by SLEEPER5150; 11.19.09 at 08:50 AM.
    She looks so $#@!'n good ,so sexy and so frail....Somethin's got the bite on me, I'm goin' straight to Hell.

  15. #15
    Atomic Punk
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    someone check me, but didn't Gibson announce a few years back that they would no longer be buying brazillian rosewood and that they would just be working with their stock on hand? I seem to recall a big eco-friendly announcement/press release with interviews and such.

    Also, the whole deal with rainforests goes back much longer than any current bitterness some may have with current politics...of which I have in spaids.

    That bit about this being just another byproduct of our liberal government was pretty weak.
    Stay out of it, dude.


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