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  1. #1
    Hang 'Em High jetguy5150's Avatar
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    12.12.17 @ 11:16 AM
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    Northwest Pilots fly 150 miles past destination airport.

    Ok...here is a good one for those of you who don't enjoy flying as it is. Not that there was a whole lot of risk here (unless they didn't have a whole lot of extra fuel or they ran into another plane. ) This is the ultimate example of "missing your exit."

    http://www.twincities.com/ci_13619032?nclick_check=1

    Northwest/Delta pilots face intense probe after jet flies 150 miles past Minneapolis/St. Paul airport
    By John Welbes
    jwelbes@pioneerpress.com
    Updated: 10/23/2009 07:43:47 AM CDT

    Were the pilots mad? Tired? Just how did a Northwest Airlines A320 jet en route from San Diego to the Twin Cities on Wednesday night drop out of radio contact for more than an hour and fly 150 miles past its destination?

    Federal investigators are trying to find out.

    The National Transportation Safety Board on Thursday said the pilots in charge of Northwest Flight 188 blamed a "heated discussion over airline policy" for causing them to lose "situational awareness."

    It appears awareness strayed sometime after 6:56 p.m. Wednesday, when the NTSB says air traffic controllers lost radio contact with the plane as it carried 144 passengers and five crew members at 37,000 feet.

    A ground control center in Denver handed over the
    Is the W for "worry"?
    An NWA flight lost contact with air traffic controllers for 150 miles past the Minneapolis/St. Paul airport. What should happen to the flight deck crew?
    They should receive education on the dangers of inattentive flying.
    They should be suspended without pay.
    This was dangeorous. They should be fired.
    I'm not sure.
    flight to the Twin Cities at 7:45 p.m., according to a Federal Aviation Administration spokesman. The plane overflew Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport at 7:58 p.m.

    A controller re-established contact with the plane at 8:14 p.m. The cockpit crewmembers said they had become distracted and requested to return to the airport, the NTSB said.

    A passenger on the flight, Lonnie Heidtke of Chippewa Falls, Wis., said the pilot announced about 8:30 p.m. that "we've been put into a holding pattern."

    The flight was supposed to arrive at 8 p.m. Heidtke, who was traveling on business and working on his computer, wasn't paying much attention to time.

    "We were flying in circles somewhere," he said.

    The plane landed safely just after 9 p.m. in the Twin Cities. When it pulled up to the gate, "everybody stood up and got ready to exit," Heidtke said. "The flight attendant said, 'Everybody sit back down please.' "

    Airport police boarded the plane to make sure the loss of radio contact wasn't the result of criminal activity, said Patrick Hogan, an airport spokesman.

    The FAA notified the military, which put Air National Guard fighter jets on alert at two locations, the Associated Press reported. As many as four planes
    Flight path of Northwest Airlines Flight 188 from San Diego on approach to Minneapolis on Oct. 21, 2009. (FlightAware.com)
    could have been scrambled, but none took to the air.

    Later, the FBI and airport police interviewed the crew. That's when crewmembers told of their "heated discussion," the NTSB said.

    The Wall Street Journal, citing unnamed government sources, reported on its Web site Thursday that federal officials are investigating whether the pilots fell asleep. Tony Molinaro, an FAA spokesman, said he couldn't comment on that scenario.

    The NTSB said Thursday it would look into pilot fatigue as part of its investigation. The A320's cockpit voice recorder and flight date recorder were being sent to an NTSB laboratory in Washington, D.C.

    The pilots, who weren't named, have been "relieved from active flying" during the investigation, said a spokesman for Atlanta-based Delta Air Lines, which acquired Eagan-based Northwest last year.

    "The safety of our passengers and crew is our top priority," Delta said in a statement. "We are cooperating with the FAA and NTSB in their investigation as well as conducting our own internal investigation."

    Two Northwest pilots were flying the A320. Crews from Delta and Northwest haven't been combined yet on planes. The NTSB didn't say how many crewmembers were involved in the argument over airline policy. The pilots' union for Delta and Northwest pilots declined to comment.

    Occasionally, if pilots are talking in the cockpit and radio signals are weak, pilots can miss hearing an air traffic controller requesting to switch to a different frequency, said J. Joseph, a retired military and airline pilot who does consulting work.

    Losing awareness to the point of flying past an airport, however, is another matter.

    "You're no longer on a valid flight plan," he said. "There's lots of other airplanes that may have had to have been moved to accommodate this particular plane. Those are the predominant issues in this incident."

    Molinaro said he didn't see reports of diverted flights at Minneapolis-St. Paul on Wednesday night. If the A320 remained at 37,000 feet, it shouldn't have disrupted operations at the airport because arriving and departing planes fly at much lower altitudes, he said.

    If the pilots did fall asleep — and weren't actually arguing — that should be revealed in the cockpit voice recordings, Joseph said.

    On a domestic flight, one pilot may tell the other he plans to rest for a few minutes, Joseph said. "If both guys fall asleep, it was unplanned," he said.

    In general, Joseph said he believes crew rest requirements are grossly insufficient. While airlines typically allow a break of 10 hours between flights, that might equate to five hours of actual sleep after taking time for the commutes between the airport and a hotel, and meals, he said.

    "You put three or four of those days back to back, and by that last day, you've got some tired crew members."

    The NTSB also is investigating a Delta flight that landed early Monday on an active taxiway at the Atlanta airport.

    The Boeing 767, arriving from Rio de Janeiro, landed after being cleared for a runway parallel to the taxiway. Visibility was 10 miles at the time. Earlier in that flight, a third airman in the cockpit had become ill and was moved to the passenger cabin. None of the 182 passengers or 11 crewmembers reportedly was injured.
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  2. #2
    Sinner's Swing! Bullwinkle's Avatar
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    Good nyborg!

    Last edited by Bullwinkle; 10.23.09 at 08:45 AM.







    Don't read this.

  3. #3
    Master Bluesman Elwood P.'s Avatar
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    12.12.17 @ 10:03 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetguy5150 View Post
    the pilots in charge of Northwest Flight 188 blamed a "heated discussion over airline policy" for causing them to lose "situational awareness."
    Something weird must have been going on up there in that cockpit.


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  4. #4
    Future's in the past....
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    11.03.17 @ 01:35 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banned
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    Last edited by Down In Flames; 10.29.09 at 02:43 AM. Reason: The person quoted was banned and, due to the circumstances, has been erased. - DIF
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  5. #5
    carpe damn diem billy007's Avatar
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    ...and of course, mrs007 is flying Northwest home from Wausau, Wisconsin today.

  6. #6
    Sinner's Swing! InTheBeginning's Avatar
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    07.20.17 @ 05:17 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by billy007 View Post
    ...and of course, mrs007 is flying Northwest home from Wausau, Wisconsin today.
    Simple...plan to pick her up in Ft. Lauderdale!
    A little more volume in the headphones please.

  7. #7
    carpe damn diem billy007's Avatar
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    12.12.17 @ 06:57 PM
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    She's gotta get to Minneapolis first. Looks as if they are doing a bit of flying around right now - 175 miles down, 3 to go...or so I'm told

  8. #8
    Hang 'Em High jetguy5150's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InTheBeginning View Post
    Simple...plan to pick her up in Ft. Lauderdale!
    I am sensing a new slogan for Northwest, "Fly Northwest, it's not just your bags that end up at the wrong airport."
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  9. #9
    Atomic Punk ZeoBandit's Avatar
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    12.12.17 @ 06:17 AM
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    Those pilots are probably in deep crap.
    "What we are dealing with here, is a complete lack of respect for the law" - Jackie Gleason, Smokey and the Bandit

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  10. #10
    Hang 'Em High Hurricane Halen's Avatar
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    Captain Chesley B. Sullenburger would have had Minneapolis fly 150 miles to, HIM.

    Chuck Norris ain't got shit on Capt. Sully.

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  11. #11
    Sinner's Swing!
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    Swell. I'm a Platinum frequent flyer on Delta/NW, not because they are great but because they are the main airline out of Cincinnati. Last month, I was flying from Atlanta to Mexico City which is a 4 hour flight. After about 4 and 1/2 hours, I noticed the map display on the video screen showed us way past Mexico City. A few minutes later, the pilot announced we were landing in Puerto Varta because of weather. Maybe there was more going on than just a thunder storm. Hmmmm

  12. #12
    Hang 'Em High jetguy5150's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by looper_guy View Post
    Swell. I'm a Platinum frequent flyer on Delta/NW, not because they are great but because they are the main airline out of Cincinnati. Last month, I was flying from Atlanta to Mexico City which is a 4 hour flight. After about 4 and 1/2 hours, I noticed the map display on the video screen showed us way past Mexico City. A few minutes later, the pilot announced we were landing in Puerto Varta because of weather. Maybe there was more going on than just a thunder storm. Hmmmm
    Sounds like Puerto Vallarta would be a better spot to land anyway. Bust out the sun tan lotion!
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  13. #13
    Sinner's Swing! InTheBeginning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elwood P. View Post
    Something weird must have been going on up there in that cockpit.
    I wonder if all the female flight attendants were accounted for during this ummm delay?
    A little more volume in the headphones please.

  14. #14
    Baluchitherium
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    11.25.17 @ 04:30 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by InTheBeginning View Post
    I wonder if all the female flight attendants were accounted for during this ummm delay?
    ...or what those two dudes were really doing up there.

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  15. #15
    Hang 'Em High jetguy5150's Avatar
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    12.12.17 @ 11:16 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metal Marc View Post
    ...or what those two dudes were really doing up there.
    This could be the cockiest cockpit voice recorder EVER!!!!
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